64 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

arkanis, on 21 August 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

I agree with you asymemetrical equality is possible and they introduced weapon changes to reflect that, but they fell short (as expected knowing Paul). How is it possible to have clans sharing the regular queue with inner sphere mechs in a random amount for each team?.
There are mech weapons and systems in clan tech that are so unbalanced compared to IS that you are gimping yourself by going IS. The most blatant cases for me are clan XL (no shouldering risk, full weight saving), clan gauss (identical but 3 tons less 1 crit less), clan DHS (identical but 2 crits), and clan medium lasers (quasi IS large lasers for 1 ton). With those things around and no drawback i don't understand why we are sharing queue other than to be farmed.

Sure there's the tentative 12vs10 solution, but elbandito is right, without any restriction, in 3 months the queue will be clantech-only except for the poor guys stripped of cash.

Thank you for stating the obvious. (minus the paul comment) I have my hopes up the game builders are heading the right direction over all. I think the players piloting clan mechs and saying they are not OP will feel a little silly at some point, so take it easy on them.

Edited by Johnny Z, 21 August 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

arkanis, on 21 August 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

There are mech weapons and systems in clan tech that are so unbalanced compared to IS that you are gimping yourself by going IS.

The most blatant cases for me are clan XL (no shouldering risk, full weight saving),

clan gauss (identical but 3 tons less 1 crit less),

clan DHS (identical but 2 crits),

clan medium lasers (quasi IS large lasers for 1 ton). With those things around and no drawback i don't understand why we are sharing queue other than to be farmed.

Seperated your quote out into individual pieces to make it clearer to understand.

1 - Clan XLs - Sure your right except now instead of the enemy having to decide which is the best route to kill you by going for CT or ST, you know that the best route to kill a Clan mech is always to shoot the CT. Also most people shoot center mass anyway so a majority of the fire that hits you goes to your CT whether your playing Clan or IS. Not saying it isn't an advantage but most people seriously overstate exactly how much of an advantage it is.

2 - Clan Gauss - Ok I can give you this one. No drawback. It weighs less hands down with no drawbacks to balance it out.

3 - Clan DHS - sure they are smaller and easier to fit but Clan weapons are also quite a bit hotter. The end result is both IS and Clan mechs can attain similar heat management capabilities. Don't believe me, just test it on Smurfy's.

4 - Clan ER ML - Drawbacks, lets see. Hotter and longer burn duration. Now I am not saying they aren't good but get your info straight if your going to complain about them. They definitely have some drawbacks and I would even say that under 270m, IS MLs actually have the advantage.

The point is, Clan tech as it is balanced currently isn't overwhelmingly better than IS tech. At most it is situationally better such as being better at extreme long ranges for example, but there are also alot of situations where IS weapons are better as well.

Standard PPCs are much cooler for example and offer 90-95% of the same benefit as a Clan ER PPC within its 90-540m effective range making them overall better within those ranges. Another example is the LPL. Sure it has much shorter range than the Clan version but at its effective range, it fires a 0.6 pulse vs the Clan LPL firing a 1.3 second pulse. That is a huge advantage under 350m. IS LRMs are also fired en mass which is quite a bit more effective at defeating AMS an concentrating damage, again another huge IS advantage (especially considering how many LRM OPed complaints there are).

Anyway, I could go on and on with this but it is pretty obviously that Clans don't hold a 100% tech advantage across the board.

[Mystere]

Jeb, on 21 August 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

The end result was that the tests were not controlled very well... and while they may have shown us that Clan vs IS, clans do have an advantage, I don't think people really fully understand what that means or have looked beyond "OMG 90% nerf clans".

I can assure you there are quite a number who have not looked beyond "OMG 90% nerf clans".

[ExplodedZombie]

I love the books. I barely played the game when I was a kid and don't remember it. I love the lore, the universe, all of it! I love my clan mechs that I paid a small fortune for!

And I agree, entirely. I mastered my Timber Wolf / Stormcrow then went back to my trusty IS mechs and found them wanting. The lore is fantastic until you talk about actual game design. Clans break it. That's all there is to it.

With a few small tweaks we could have them much closer. There is no need to drop the Nerf Hammer.

@Viktor - 4 ERML vs 4 ML...you kill your opponent in one shot or two. Your choice. The damage is much nicer.
As for the Clan XL...I lose side torsos all the time due to maneuvering my CT away from damage. I have died to ST->CT destruction as often as I've won matches with 1 ST missing.

Edited by ExplodedZombie, 21 August 2014 - 12:48 PM.

[ShinobiHunter]

DAYLEET, on 21 August 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

What about baddies like me who have MUCH better stats in clan mech from the first match? I played nothing but my clan mech for a month then when i went back in IS it was obvious i had become lazy and i had to work much harder as well as readjust. Yes a better guy than me will perform great in any mech but the fact that a lousier guy will always do better in a clan mech should ring a bell. But all that i say does not matter because pig already did the test themselves, they posted the facts and i dont have to mention clanners were not happy to be told.

Do you remember when Russ said "Clanner will have to bring their skills" wasnt it precious? Do you look back on it laughing or shaking your head?

edit> ive not played the clan since and dont know how the recent change would affect my game.

What about baddies like me getting higher KDR in my Wolverine than my Timby?