49 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Oh his new build didn't show for me.

IlleLorem, on 23 August 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Edit: A build I pieced together for a Direwolf Prime, if I ever get my hands on one.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...103ba8625bd0933

That's got plenty of ammo for what you have. I see you split your armor pure front and back, someone's expecting to get ambushed. It'd be tough against things behind you. Great for River City or the new map that's coming out... Not sure if it'd be so good on other maps (most 70 ton mechs tend to have that much armor on the front or more and it doesn't do them a whole lot of good).

This is something I'll probably use. It's a bit close range oriented though which worries me, but that's the joy of customization. Trying things out. One thing you might notice is that on the right arm, (your left on the display), I've snuck in a lower arm actuator. It allows the arms to pivot though very slightly. It's the secret to my Warhawk's success. Though it irks me that only right arms have it, and they are hidden.

Here's another one I've been using.

Edited by Koniving, 23 August 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[IlleLorem]

Koniving, on 23 August 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

Oh his new build didn't show for me.


That's got plenty of ammo for what you have. I see you split your armor pure front and back, someone's expecting to get ambushed. It'd be tough against things behind you. Great for River City or the new map that's coming out... Not sure if it'd be so good on other maps (most 70 ton mechs tend to have that much armor on the front or more and it doesn't do them a whole lot of good).

This is something I'll probably use. It's a bit close range oriented though which worries me, but that's the joy of customization. Trying things out. One thing you might notice is that on the right arm, (your left on the display), I've snuck in a lower arm actuator. It allows the arms to pivot though very slightly. It's the secret to my Warhawk's success. Though it irks me that only right arms have it, and they are hidden.

I'll consider dropping a little ammo on the LRMs. Take a look at my most recent build?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...18982f13f911a3e

Edit: What would you recommend I do with armor splitting?

Edited by IlleLorem, 23 August 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[Koniving]

Ditch the ER LLs.
PGI over-nerfed them. In the Warhawk vid I gave earlier with its final stand, you'll see they are virtually worthless. That's the ER Mediums doing most of that damage. Using the ER LL you'll do about 5.625 damage in a full second with a two second long beam (where an IS ER LL does 9 damage in 1 full second). Using the LPL you'll do 9.07 damage in 1 second (out of 11.8 total in 1.3 seconds). Significantly superior for only a loss of approximately 200 meters in optimal range.

Swap for LPLs. It's a little less range, but it's far superior for about 2 tons more. At least until PGI does an intelligent balancing decision with Clan ER LLs. Also in my post I snap-shotted another one of my Dire Wolves.

I'll go ahead and follow up with why I combined an ER Medium in either build. They have very similar ranges (ER Mediums are a little shorter) but don't trigger a heat penalty from another one of PGI's balancing decisions. Firing more than 2 ER Large lasers or 2 LPL at once is punished. Which is why I'm pairing 1 or 2 LPL with ER Mediums to skirt around it.

Rather than a 30 threshold like battletech (remember the spoiler before with the Dire Wolf nearly killing itself with a single firing of all the weapons? That was across 10 seconds) where heat matters and is all encompassing [generate 30 heat that isn't dissipated at any point in time whether instantly or over time and you shut down], PGI uses a 'punishment' system since they thought the experience would be more fast-paced with a higher threshold. Now you can have thresholds that can reach beyond 100, and so basically heat is pretty meaningless. The punishments make heat matter, but only with certain weapon combinations that are fired within 0.5 seconds of each other.
For the heat penalty and what it affects, look here.

Edited by Koniving, 23 August 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[IlleLorem]

This seem better?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1d093290a471019

[Koniving]

Armor again (though you'll learn that the hard way).
Lots of free tonnage (it won't make you any faster).
See where the dropbox says "DWF-Prime" for each limb? You can change out the limbs to get different hardpoints.
Certainly better in the weapons department.

I'm trying to eat up that free tonnage but I'm having trouble with that...
On a side note, this mod where I tried to eat up the tonnage lets you alpha strike all the lasers (fire them all at once) with no punishment. That's 58.6 damage in a single strike (and in battletech if you did this all at the same time instead of across 10 seconds you'd instantly kill yourself by detonating the ammunition, here you'll get 78% heat).

Since LPL and ER ML have the same beam times, it's a perfect synergy. (Should note: Targeting Computers make bullets faster [...yeah not even gonna touch that] and extends the ranges of lasers). The bigger the computer the greater the effect.

Edited by Koniving, 23 August 2014 - 11:09 AM.

[Modo44]

The general setup is solid, but you can upgrade it in a few ways.

You have spare tonnage, so it would make sense to take more firepower. Either a big ballistic weapon, or more/heavier energy stuff. You can easily fit a Clan Active Probe and a Targeting Computer to give the mech a solid sensor+weapon power upgrade. It is slow, so it can use more battlefield information and reach. You also want way less back armor. Between 10% and 25% is the usual amount (go lower as you learn to not show your back to the enemy).

I would suggest 4xLPL+4xERML+ALRM20. Note that this mech will overheat if you fire all lasers at once. It is built to fire one laser arm at a time. You left click one arm, then right click the other 0.5s later. Add LRMs whenever you have a good lock. The big Targeting Computer and the Clan Active Probe get you nearly instant targeting information (hit R), and very long laser range. Adjust back armor depending on your ability to not get back-shot.

Oh, and remember that you can swap omni pods on Clan omnimechs. This means that you can, for example, take a torso that has a ballistic hardpoint. This instantly multiplies the possibilities on any Clan mech.

Edited by Modo44, 23 August 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[IlleLorem]

Modo44, on 23 August 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

The general setup is solid, but you can upgrade it in a few ways.

You have spare tonnage, so it would make sense to take more firepower. Either a big ballistic weapon, or more/heavier energy stuff. You can easily fit a Clan Active Probe and a Targeting Computer to give the mech a solid sensor+weapon power upgrade. It is slow, so it can use more battlefield information and reach. You also want way less back armor. Between 10% and 25% is the usual amount (go lower as you learn to not show your back to the enemy).

I would suggest 4xLPL+4xERML+ALRM20. Note that this mech will overheat if you fire all lasers at once. It is built to fire one laser arm at a time. You left click one arm, then right click the other 0.5s later. Add LRMs whenever you have a good lock. The big Targeting Computer and the Clan Active Probe get you nearly instant targeting information (hit R), and very long laser range. Adjust back armor depending on your ability to not get back-shot.

This seems like a build I would like. I'll have to wait a bit until I can get a Direwolf, though.

[Koniving]

Sounds good.

In the mean time, I managed to make your build into something I will indeed be using..
2 LPL, 5 ER ML, LRM-20 Artemis, Streak 6, and LB-10X (very cold shotgun as the build is very hot).

Can strip the armor off of the center torso of almost anything lighter than 75 tons in a single shot of the lasers, and while I cool off the streaks can exploit any weaknesses in their armor (and rattle them) and the LB-10X will get lots of bonus damage thanks to stripped armor. I think I have myself a winner for my third Dire Wolf.

The only problem is it'll need 5 firing buttons. Considering I've got a 6 button mouse that's no trouble for me. Won't be so easy for someone else though.

Edited by Koniving, 23 August 2014 - 11:24 AM.

[Modo44]

Just in case you are still considering a Stalker 3F, it can take 2xLPL+4xML+4xLRM5. Not as deadly as the Dire Wolf, but also quite strong. This one can safely fire all lasers together, although you want the hottest (2xLPL) on a separete group to skip some salvos in longer engagements.

[IlleLorem]

What does the Nova-S(NVA-S) cost, C-Bill wise? That thing is a walking arsenal.

[dragnier1]

Should be 9 mil. Not much pod space though, the nova. 16 tons total.
If you're interested, the builds i've seen are 6 meds 4 mg, 6 meds 6 small pulse, 12 small pulse.

Direwolf on the other hand might cost 17mil. Someone did some math, don't remember the topic though.

[Koniving]

That mech builder site can tell you once it comes available. We don't know just yet (there is speculation based on the maths).
A Blackhawk / Nova Prime is 11,586,250 cbills on tabletop. It'll be quite a bit cheaper in MWO.
(An Atlas K in MWO is like 11 million, an Atlas K in tabletop is over 22 million).

[Redshift2k5]

IlleLorem, on 23 August 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

What does the Nova-S(NVA-S) cost, C-Bill wise? That thing is a walking arsenal.

The Sell value of my Novas is all around 4.3 mil to 4.5 mil. Sell is half the price, so you're looking at around 9 million plus bit more if you want to modify the equipment (but no big investment for DHS, XL engine, etc)

[LT. HARDCASE]

Redshift2k5, on 23 August 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

The Sell value of my Novas is all around 4.3 mil to 4.5 mil. Sell is half the price, so you're looking at around 9 million plus bit more if you want to modify the equipment (but no big investment for DHS, XL engine, etc)

Sell is not exactly half the price in c-bills, because it does not take the costs of Endo, Ferro, and DHS into the price.

Edited by Kevjack, 23 August 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[DDM PLAGUE]

I personally like a lot of the stock builds, than again I am an old warrior set in my ways. The best advice I can give you, is don't worry about what other people think you should do. learn to fight what you have

[Redshift2k5]

Kevjack, on 23 August 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Sell is not exactly half the price in c-bills, because it does not take the costs of Endo, Ferro, and DHS into the price.

It doesn't account for the upgrade cost of those upgrades.

Irrelevant for clan mechs that can't modify their Endo, Ferro, or DHS.

[IlleLorem]

DDM PLAGUE, on 23 August 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

I personally like a lot of the stock builds, than again I am an old warrior set in my ways. The best advice I can give you, is don't worry about what other people think you should do. learn to fight what you have

Taking advice is never bad. Whether you listen to it or not is up to you, but it is nice to have the knowledge of some veterans to weigh into your decisions.

[DDM PLAGUE]

Simple limited advice can be helpful, So here is some from some one who has been playing MW on paper coved with hexagons, and every PC release. As a new pilot, spend some time in the different weight classes, find what your most comfortable in simply maneuvering, targeting, using terrain, and battlefield awareness , before you worry too much about Mech config. Terrain is your best armor, You cant shoot what you cant find, You cant hit what you cant target, regardless of what weapon you carry. All thou I know there are some who disagree there are no "bad Mechs" only "bad" pilots ,as I am known to yell often at my new recruits, " Its not your load out, or your tonnage, You have to learn to fight your Mech"
Good Luck & Good Hunting.

Edited by DDM PLAGUE, 23 August 2014 - 02:02 PM.

[IlleLorem]

DDM PLAGUE, on 23 August 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

Simple limited advice can be helpful, So here is some from some one who has been playing MW on paper coved with hexagons, and every PC release. As a new pilot, spend some time in the different weight classes, find what your most comfortable in simply maneuvering, targeting, using terrain, and battlefield awareness , before you worry too much about Mech config. Terrain is your best armor, You cant shoot what you cant find, You cant hit what you cant target, regardless of what weapon you carry. All thou I know there are some who disagree there are no "bad Mechs" only "bad" pilots ,as I am known to yell often at my new recruits, " Its not your load out, or your tonnage, You have to learn to fight your Mech"
Good Luck & Good Hunting.

I can get used to terrain in time, and agreed about learning to abuse the terrain. But having an optimal loadout right off the bat can never hurt. And of course, I'll get used to a mech in time.

[Satan n stuff]

Koniving, on 23 August 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Stalker as a tanking front line mech, alternating positions with an Atlas. (Misery, the hero mech which actually has less protection than most Stalkers due to a lack of missile doors, which add a 10% resistance to damage when closed).

The stalker's sidetorsos do not have missile doors, and the arms take so little damage on average that it''s inconsequential, you'll almost always lose the arms when the sidetorsos go, almost never before.