The best thing about this challenge is that it really highlights all the balance problems in MWO, many of which go back 2 years now. On a typical day, people don't really focus so much on winning, they focus more on having fun. But when there's a challenge and everyone wants to win, two things happen:
1) There's a lot of griefing (disconnects and suicide), because of a huge design flaw in the challenge. (That's not what this thread is about)
2) There's a lot of boring gameplay, because everyone's doing whatever they can to maximize chances of winning (That's what this thread is about)
To all the people who thought "Win x times within 48 hours" would be a fun challenge, I understand your logic. With victories as the challenge criteria, it makes sense that people would strive for teamwork, as opposed to just killstealing. And that has actually happened, there is more teamwork now. When you say "RTB or we lose the match", people do listen more than before. Because they want to win. But are the games more fun than usual because of this teamwork?
Nope. I personally don't think so at all.
Spoiler
Instead, people are bringing out their top dogs and best mechs for the underhive. ECM lights, Clan mechs and LRM boats are everywhere. The only Inner Sphere Assault mechs you'll se, are LRM Stalkers, LRM Awesomes and Atlas DDCs. The queue is back to normal from last week. 5-10% light mechs in the queue. Airstrikes and artillery are ten times more frequent in the solo queue compared to normal.
You see, both PGI and the players often make the mistake of thinking that the game is balanced if it seems balanced in any given match. But this game is over 2 years old, and people aren't trying to win all the time. They're just trying to have fun. For some people, that means winning. For other people, it means getting a lot of kills or doing a lot of damage. And some people take pride in running sub-optimal mechs, like stock mechs or Dragons.
When everyone wants to win at all costs, the game changes. And the flaws of gameplay balance are easier to see. I really hope PGI takes note of that.
This isn't just a grind because I have to get 50 wins. It's a grind because the solo queue is a nightmare compared to how it normally is. Every match is the same. No one wants to try any fun builds or any fun plans. Drop in your Timber Wolf. Take the H9 Hill on Alpine, play it safe. Win the match. Drop again.
If you suggest something exciting, like a flanking maneuver or an unconventional route, people just laugh. "You imbecile, you know the only way to win on this map is to take Theta / take the hill / hug the palace. Why would we do anything different? We need 37 more wins to complete the challenge. Keep your head down and shoot your LRMs."
TL;DR:
This challenge has been a great exhibition which clearly displays how boring this game can be when everyone's trying to win at all costs. The meta-builds, LRM boating, the airstrikes and artillery, the same tactics on every damn map, over and over and over again. No variation. The definition of a grind.
On a positive note... thanks for the mechbay and premium time.
if there was a mechanic that would make alpha builds less profitable it would create greater diversity In builds, low cost builds maybe even som stock builds in the lower elo ranks, we could call it r&r! This would ofcourse ruin the game because blablabla
need infinite ammo and easy mode.
To be quite honest, I mostly stuck with my Dire Wolf Prime for the second half of the challenge. My main reason for this is not "for the victory" - I can get those in my Awesome and IS mediums - but because I have no IS heroes... but my Invasion Primes have the same c-bill bonus.
To be quite honest, I mostly stuck with my Dire Wolf Prime for the second half of the challenge. My main reason for this is not "for the victory" - I can get those in my Awesome and IS mediums - but because I have no IS heroes... but my Invasion Primes have the same c-bill bonus.
I've been dropping mostly in my Kit Fox for the sake of ECM, which is a huge factor in the solo queue, and in my Prime Warhawk for the C-bills.
I'm... Not seeing much different from normal. More team-work. The kitfoxes are packing LRMs. The fighting is a bit more intense for sure. Less ballsy scouts. I wouldn't say I'm noticing more strikes, so much as more blind strikes. People seem content to throw them early and hope the one mech they spotted has eleven more sitting right behind it. They're often right...
I've noticed people picking darker camo patterns much more frequently. Blacks and greys. It makes a difference.
Henri Schoots, on 24 August 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:
if there was a mechanic that would make alpha builds less profitable it would create greater diversity In builds, low cost builds maybe even som stock builds in the lower elo ranks, we could call it r&r! This would ofcourse ruin the game because blablabla
need infinite ammo and easy mode.
PGI thinks it has one. "Ghost heat." But it's very selective and exploitable.
Battletech had a great one. In fact it had two.
1) A low heat threshold. In MWO it is possible under certain conditions to have a threshold that exceeds 120 (that's 12 PPCs fired at once without ghost heat, or 30 medium lasers fired at once). Specifically Battletech has a heat threshold of 30, where if you had 30 heat unsunken at ANY time you were automatically shutdown. Some specify the Awesome 8Q as an example to the contrary, however... A battletech turn is 10 seconds.
Add 1 or 2 heat for walking/running if necessary, at intervals of 0.1 to 0.2 heat per second.
A faster firing rate is possible, but much faster and it'd hit 14 heat or 46.67% threshold, the maximum safe heat as anything 50% or higher gets penalties... Bringing us to Battletech's second great solution to make alpha strikes less profitable.
2) Penalties. Specifically if you linger at this much heat, you get punished. It begins at 15 heat, 1 ER PPC, for a possible shutdown chance of like 3%. Simply overriding before you fire is more than enough. (The lore proper ER PPC short charge up would divide the heat between charging up and firing, making it easy to do without spiking to 15 heat aka 50%). At 16 heat (53.33% heat), ammo starts taking damage. And it builds up, gradually reducing your mobility, accuracy, and even shutting down your hud/monitors/etc so that you're firing blind.
Ironically when compared to the books, tabletop suffered from pinpoint. Which is laughable compared to how much of a mercy Battletech tabletop is from the pinpoint of MWO, but depressingly true.
------
As an example: This Dire Wolf fired all of its weapons across 10 seconds, hitting many different locations as it charged at a King Crab.
Spoiler
Heat Phase
-------------------
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) gains 73 heat, sinks 44 heat and is now at 29 heat.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) needs a 5+ to avoid shutdown, rolls 9 : avoids successfully!
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) needs a 8+ to avoid ammo explosion, rolls 5 : fails to avoid explosion.
*** LRM 10 Ammo EXPLODES! 110 DAMAGE! ***
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 110 damage to LT.
SECTION DESTROYED,
LIMB BLOWN OFF Left Arm blown off.
remaining 89 damage prevented by CASE.
Critical hit on LT. Roll is 6; no effect.
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" takes 2 damage.
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" needs a 3 to stay conscious. Rolls 6 : successful!
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" needs a 5 to stay conscious. Rolls 7 : successful!
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime needs a 6+ for coolant failure, rolls 8 : fails.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime's coolant is now less effective.
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) gains 25 heat, sinks 20 heat and is now at 5 heat.
King Crab KGC-010 needs a 10+ for coolant failure, rolls 5 : avoids successfully!
Notice how devastating that was? The ammunition in the left arm detonated, and he only fired 4 ER Large Lasers, 4 Medium Pulse Lasers, 2 Ultra Autocannon 5s (twice each), and a single LRM-10. Without ghost heat!
In MWO, with ghost heat which adds an additional 11.42 heat on top of this.. A single firing of all the weapons occurs here. This mech has NO unlocks what-so-ever. It just shuts off for a single second. And these heatsinks are inferior due to not having unlocks. If I had unlocks, I would actually have superior to tabletop heatsinks with 15 DHS.
Battletech, which PGI calls the balance broken and says that heat has no meaning in: Fire all weapons, once, one at a time across 10 seconds. BOOM! Explosion! Quick, did the pilot survive!? Heatsinks become less effective.
MWO, which PGI says the balance is almost perfect: "Alpha strike? Pfft, shut off for a second." Wait, you forgot unlocks! "Alpha strike? 85% heat."
Speaking of heatsinks become less effective, did you catch the King Crab in that report? Gains 25 heat over 10 seconds, sinks 20 over 10 seconds, and has to check for a coolant failure! Even though the King Crab never even touched 46.87% heat, it has to check for a coolant failure of the heatsinks due to overtaxing their ability over 10 seconds.
I enjoyed the challenge. I did not try to power my way to victory with a assault. Instead I opted to win by caps with a ecm spider on conquest. There are many ways to win. A lot of games I scored under 100 damage but won the game for my dead team. If you're playing a heavy or assault and putting up numbers but can not count on the lights to do their job, maybe you should consider being the reliable light that wins the games.
if i wanted to rrape face i would take balistic banshee. Plenty of highlanders on field too
"This challenge has been a great exhibition which clearly displays how boring this game can be when everyone's trying to win at all costs. The meta-builds, LRM boating, the airstrikes and artillery, the same tactics on every damn map, over and over and over again. No variation. The definition of a grind."
thats how all games are, all day everyday. Think you are just salty because ELO puts you on the bad team..
Gladiator, play-dates always get mundane eventually. Repetitive battles in a bottle, predictable encounters. What we really need is a sandbox, real-time, dynamic engagements that don't start and end with a timer.
I have been running exclusively in my brand new Treb from Liao sales over the weekend.
Packing mostly MLs and LRMs in a fast engine, and UAV to farm EXP on the very abundant slow moving heavy and assault.
Brought a day of PT to start and got the free 7 day the next day.
I have already complete elite on 2 Treb, and close on the third, over the weekend.
I enjoyed the challenge. I did not try to power my way to victory with a assault. Instead I opted to win by caps with a ecm spider on conquest. There are many ways to win. A lot of games I scored under 100 damage but won the game for my dead team. If you're playing a heavy or assault and putting up numbers but can not count on the lights to do their job, maybe you should consider being the reliable light that wins the games.
I just don't enjoy Conquest any more, since they increased the cap times to something insane. You spend so much time just standing still. Most teams don't even bother capping, they just grab 2 or 3 bases and focus on killing. When the killing stops, they only go back to capping if they absolutely have to.
Winning under those conditions doesn't feel like an accomplishment to me. I'm basically winning because people find capping too boring. Only sometimes is it actually a testament to skill.
I really don't mean any offense by that. Maybe you're a good enough pilot that you make a big difference, but I'm just not willing to pay the price by sitting on all those squares.
Turist0AT, on 24 August 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:
thats how all games are, all day everyday. Think you are just salty because ELO puts you on the bad team..
I actually do think it's worse than usual. I really have no idea what Elo does in this game. A lot of people talk about what it does, and I'm not sure I believe them.
Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 24 August 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:
I actually do think it's worse than usual. I really have no idea what Elo does in this game. A lot of people talk about what it does, and I'm not sure I believe them.
Everytime they change something or when there is a tornament or a challange, it gets bad, wich happends very often, so much so that it becomes a norm. So from my experience its been like this for a long time. But matches are different, sometimes its good sometimes its bad, and its all thanks to match maker and if elo decides to bet against you.
Oh and i play European prime time, its not as brutal as playing with US fellas.
Gladiator, play-dates always get mundane eventually. Repetitive battles in a bottle, predictable encounters. What we really need is a sandbox, real-time, dynamic engagements that don't start and end with a timer.
Yep would be nice if there wasnt a count down timer in my face all match every match. It should be to the side and use cntrl to look over and check it. WAY to much ui clutter and none Mechwarrior ui. Count down timer has nothing to do with a Mechwarrior battle with the current game modes.
I could see it on a mode with a timer to get something down, but an arbitrary timer every match sucks.
PGI used the Solaris VII heat rules, if you take the time to do the calculations, but they didn't impose the heat shutdown penalties, so you have no fear of random shutdowns until you hit the max of the heat scale.
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