119 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 24 August 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

Grimlock posted this one last night. 9 people on his team under 100.

I am sorry how this will sound but, Grimlock threw over 700 damage and killed nothing. That's a lot of damage to have killed nothing. Proving that amount of damage is not everything. Heck the winning team has players with sub 200 damage and was more productive than Grim.

[Rogue Jedi]

I usually play a light as a ether scout/spotter/distraction, or ECM/AMS support, protecting the heavies and assaults so I am often in a role where I can provide a great contribution without much damage, my damage is below 100 about 1 game in 3, however what I do is often extremely useful to the teams despite a low KDR and low damage (in a light Mech I consider 400 damage to be high).

most games I see 2-3 players below 100, this does not necessarily mean there are 2-3 players who were useless to their team

[Davegt27]

Quote

Since this competition started I have been having alot of difficulty with the teams I end up in.
Often there are four or even six players on my team who does sub 100 damage. These players are not farming, they are simply new. So new they cannot answer typed chat (or read apparently)

it was a week or so before I noticed the chat

I can help most of you experienced players out with this
experienced player says

Pug what the heck are you doing

Pug's answer if he had time to respond or even type, provided he even noticed someone was sending him a command or message
sir I am getting the crap kicked out me cant you tell

Edited by Davegt27, 24 August 2014 - 05:42 PM.

[wolf74]

to OP: So Sorry my ECM, 3xAMS, TAG, NARC KitFox is not a High f'ing Alpha Build. Guess you don't want some ECM or AMS Cover or a Team Support Mech on your side.

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 August 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

I am sorry how this will sound but, Grimlock threw over 700 damage and killed nothing. That's a lot of damage to have killed nothing. Proving that amount of damage is not everything. Heck the winning team has players with sub 200 damage and was more productive than Grim.

If you don't take into account that he was really the only mech firing at 12 opponents.

[CN9 ACE PILOT]

3rdworld, on 24 August 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

If you don't take into account that he was really the only mech firing at 12 opponents.

Spray and praying into 12 opponents sounds more like it. Focus 1, kill it, rise and repeat, if an enemy is not dead, it's still pumping out damage and killing your 'mates.

ps. That being said however, there was obviously something wrong that we are not seeing here. Most likely a D-Synch on the part of the Dire's, unless we were there, we won't know what actually happened just by the end game screen.

Edited by CN9 ACE PILOT, 24 August 2014 - 12:49 PM.

[Zervziel]

Sandslice, on 24 August 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

*leaves dismissive comment*

There are several reasons why people do under 100 damage, most of which have nothing to do with being new.

-Getting narced and then relentlessly lurm-stormed.
-Getting artied in the face. (If the arty is placed with skill, it is often NOT lack of skill to fail to notice / avoid it.)
-Trying to recon / flank and happening to find their main column staring down the approach vector.
-Trying to recon / flank and coming under the crosshairs of a Pinpoint Engine. (I saw this happen to a Raven, who "heroically" charged around a corner to attack a Jager-40. That ended predictably.)
-Getting blazed by friendly fire. (I had a Summoner torn apart by a friendly alpha from behind last week, to the tune of 17 damage personally dealt.)
-Not finding the battle, despite all best efforts. (I had a steamroll victory last week where my Warhawk dealt all of 9(!!) damage, due absolutely to lack of opportunity; I never stopped moving toward the group, but the battle never stopped moving away from me and eluding my line of sight.)

There are others, but these are the main ones I've observed / suffered.

Oh god this. I plod around the map in an assault so there's a chance that I might not even see battle until it's too late. Also I have no problem calling hypocritical ******** out when they pull BS like leaving me in the dust, thus making it far easier for me to get surrounded, cut off, and slaughtered. And surprise, surprise, it's pretty hard to get the OP's requisite 100 damage when you have 3-4 mechs tearing into you.

Also I have never made use of artillery or air strikes so i find it hilarious when many people pad their damage by dropping a strike on someone as opposed to actual fighting skills.

[CN9 ACE PILOT]

Zervziel, on 24 August 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

Also I have never made use of artillery or air strikes so i find it hilarious when many people pad their damage by dropping a strike on someone as opposed to actual fighting skills.

While i agree with this to a certain extent, Artilery/Airstrikes are crucial in flushing out the enemy from ridges, punishing them for all of them huddling around the ECM, and breaking up formations. They are not hard to dodge, and they very rarely kill some one unless they are stacked, or get a lucky crit on to an ammo clip.

But fighting skills does not = more damage.

Less damage to kill 1 enemy is skill, not when splashing more. An example of this is going for a side torso on a Jaeger that you know is most likely running a XL, it will go down with less than 100 damage focused to one ST, but if some one is splashing it all over it's legs, torso, arms and gets 300+ out of killing one unit, how does that attribute to skill?

[Satan n stuff]

Sandslice, on 24 August 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

Not finding the battle, despite all best efforts. (I had a steamroll victory last week where my Warhawk dealt all of 9(!!) damage, due absolutely to lack of opportunity; I never stopped moving toward the group, but the battle never stopped moving away from me and eluding my line of sight.)

I once got 2 damage and a kill in a Dire Wolf that way, beat that. It's stupidly easy for that to happen if you're in an assault, especially if you get a bad spawn point.

[Sandpit]

Soooooooooooo

If a Locust spots for LRM boats and directly results in them getting 4 kills, drops a UAV that results in another 1-2 kills by providing intel on enemy location (and locks for LRM boats), and then drops an arty that scatters and damages another 1-2 mechs, but only manages to do 70 damage itself in all of that, it's worthless?

This is exactly why you can't use damage and/or KDR as any kind of indication of how well a mech/pilot did its job. That's exactly why you see all these epeen strokers talking about their KDR but they never show their W/L records.

[Zervziel]

CN9 ACE PILOT, on 24 August 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

While i agree with this to a certain extent, Artilery/Airstrikes are crucial in flushing out the enemy from ridges, punishing them for all of them huddling around the ECM, and breaking up formations. They are not hard to dodge, and they very rarely kill some one unless they are stacked, or get a lucky crit on to an ammo clip.

But fighting skills does not = more damage.

Less damage to kill 1 enemy is skill, not when splashing more. An example of this is going for a side torso on a Jaeger that you know is most likely running a XL, it will go down with less than 100 damage focused to one ST, but if some one is splashing it all over it's legs, torso, arms and gets 300+ out of killing one unit, how does that attribute to skill?

I know this. That's why I find posts about people having less than set number of damage to be complete BS. I've ended matches with 1 kill and exactly 40 damage before the enemy team's death ball rolled over me.

Edited by Zervziel, 24 August 2014 - 01:22 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Zervziel, on 24 August 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

Also I have never made use of artillery or air strikes so i find it hilarious when many people pad their damage by dropping a strike on someone as opposed to actual fighting skills.

I only disagree with this bit. Knowing when to drop arty is as much skill as anything else weapon wise in this game. Pick a target, click a button. I used One Arty strike so far and missed the enemy completely!

[Satan n stuff]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 August 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

I only disagree with this bit. Knowing when to drop arty is as much skill as anything else weapon wise in this game. Pick a target, click a button. I used One Arty strike so far and missed the enemy completely!

It helps if you have seismic or a UAV out, usually if I have either you won't even see the smoke, so there's no way you're gonna dodge it. Got a somewhat lucky double kill with arty today, and one of the guys in my unit once got four with one strike.

[CN9 ACE PILOT]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 August 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

I only disagree with this bit. Knowing when to drop arty is as much skill as anything else weapon wise in this game. Pick a target, click a button. I used One Arty strike so far and missed the enemy completely!

Don't quite understand your statement. You are saying it's easy yet missed?(Which i'm debating is a joke because of the emoticon?)

Are they easy to use? yes. This game is not Hard to play, or use anything in anyway.

I venture to say the only thing that separates the good from the bad, is how much they are willing to work with their teammates and guide them through the fight and help in every way possible, from shooting down UAV's to using an PPC/ERPPC to momentarily disable their ECM, and focusing down priority targets.

Many look down on 300~100 damage, and call it cherry picking if they get kills. So? SOMEONE had to do it, better it be the light mech than the heavy that needs to cooldown after alpha'ing. A good enemy is a dead enemy no matter how you slice it.

But eh, at this point i really don't care anymore lol...I got my 50 wins yesterday, i'm still enjoying my premium(in soloQ) and its annoying to see so many QQ not realizing how bad they really are acting as if they have NEVER lost a game in groupQ.

[Joseph Mallan]

Satan n stuff, on 24 August 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

It helps if you have seismic or a UAV out, usually if I have either you won't even see the smoke, so there's no way you're gonna dodge it. Got a somewhat lucky double kill with arty today, and one of the guys in my unit once got four with one strike.

Never say "no way". Situational awareness can overcome good use of equipment. You are right though IF i don't see it I will get hit by it... That being said I still have died only twice to Arty. And on the test server the other day I was privy to 4-5 Arty strikes in a row without dying to them.

[Joseph Mallan]

CN9 ACE PILOT, on 24 August 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

Don't quite understand your statement. You are saying it's easy yet missed?(Which i'm debating is a joke because of the emoticon?)

Are they easy to use? yes. This game is not Hard to play, or use anything in anyway.

I venture to say the only thing that separates the good from the bad, is how much they are willing to work with their teammates and guide them through the fight and help in every way possible, from shooting down UAV's to using an PPC/ERPPC to momentarily disable their ECM, and focusing down priority targets.

Many look down on 300~100 damage, and call it cherry picking if they get kills. So? SOMEONE had to do it, better it be the light mech than the heavy that needs to cooldown after alpha'ing. A good enemy is a dead enemy no matter how you slice it.

But eh, at this point i really don't care anymore lol...I got my 50 wins yesterday, i'm still enjoying my premium(in soloQ) and its annoying to see so many QQ not realizing how bad they really are acting as if they have NEVER lost a game in groupQ.

They are easy to use, it doesn't mean you will have success the very first time. Grenades are easy to use. Pull the pin. Throw. Hit the deck. Yet in training we had 2-3 guys who got the sequence... wrong.

So yes, It is easy to use AND I missed. Is there a problem with admitting that?

[Gallowglas]

Vinhasa, on 24 August 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Because damage is the only measure of worth/contribution is damage, amirite?

Unless you're capping bases or doing heavy narc, I do find it hard to justify how anything aside from a scout mech would legitimately pull in those kinds of numbers and pat themselves on the back that they did a good job. Mind you, we've all had one of *those* matches. It happens. However, if you see the majority of the team at sub-100, I'd say it's a pretty good indication of systematic failure of group tactics and individual performance.

[Sandpit]

Gallowglas, on 24 August 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Unless you're capping bases or doing heavy narc, I do find it hard to justify how anything aside from a scout mech would legitimately pull in those kinds of numbers and pat themselves on the back that they did a good job. Mind you, we've all had one of *those* matches. It happens. However, if you see the majority of the team at sub-100, I'd say it's a pretty good indication of systematic failure of group tactics and individual performance.

I'll give you another example

This exact same mentality permeates other games as well. A popular game mode in most shooters is capture the flag. If you base the "success" of a player in this mode based on how many kills they got, you're completely discounting the 5 flags they capped, the 4 flags they defended, and the 9 flags they returned to base.

Point being, damage and KDR are the worst possible stats to use to determine how well a player did in a team based game.

If a player has a .65 KDR and averages 100 damage per game but a W/L ratio of 3.0 are they "unsuccessful"?

[Budor]

Sandpit, on 24 August 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

I'll give you another example

This exact same mentality permeates other games as well. A popular game mode in most shooters is capture the flag. If you base the "success" of a player in this mode based on how many kills they got, you're completely discounting the 5 flags they capped, the 4 flags they defended, and the 9 flags they returned to base.

Point being, damage and KDR are the worst possible stats to use to determine how well a player did in a team based game.

If a player has a .65 KDR and averages 100 damage per game but a W/L ratio of 3.0 are they "unsuccessful"?

They/he are/is bad. And the success has been achieved by others, he was just on that team.

Edited by Budor, 24 August 2014 - 02:00 PM.

[CN9 ACE PILOT]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 August 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

They are easy to use, it doesn't mean you will have success the very first time. Grenades are easy to use. Pull the pin. Throw. Hit the deck. Yet in training we had 2-3 guys who got the sequence... wrong.

So yes, It is easy to use AND I missed. Is there a problem with admitting that?

Ah no, as i had said i did not quite understand the direction of the statement or the "Undertone" since many think sarcasm can be read.

Just thought you were bashing on artillery/airstrike because it an easy and guaranteed to increase damage.