119 replies to this topic

[Taien]

Speaking as a new player, I have to say this topic is pretty inflammatory against us. I just discovered this game a few days ago, and while I've always been a fan of MW, I'm having a lot of trouble getting into this one because the learning curve is so steep. There's an ingame tutorial to teach you the basics, but after that they pretty much tell you to watch YouTube videos...and to me that seems like a pretty hands-off way to teach your players to play your somewhat complex game. For example, I have no idea what a NARC is, or how to tell I've been affected by one. I'm gathering from the comments that it's some kind of missile lock-on device for teams to pound you, but there's certainly nothing in the game to explain it to me. I try to play defensive, staying behind other people/structures, popping out to fire and going back in, but many times I have games under 100 because the starter mechs you can buy are simply too weak to do anything to the more powerful mechs (being piloted by more experienced players). I bought a Griffin, because it seemed decent from the stats. But I regularly get downed by only a few laser hits. It's impossible to get any better at a game when you die the first time you're spotted by an enemy mech. Like I can pop out, take my shot, and duck back, and in that time I lose half my front armor. (Not because I'm slow, but because it's so weak...2 enemies firing at me can kill me if they hit the right spot.) It's kinda discouraging. And then you come on the forums or listen to the ingame chat and all it is is people insulting the newbies and "blah blah blah you're so bad uninstall the game insert another stereotypical troll statement here." You're not going to get more people to play against in this game (or have anyone to play against for that matter) if you keep acting like you're playing League of Legends.

[Satan n stuff]

Gallowglas, on 24 August 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

You guys are focusing on the exceptions cases. Few people would argue that a scout might not have big numbers but still be a good scout and a quality contributor to the win. Short of that though, if you're pulling in sub-100 numbers, what exactly would you say that you're doing to contribute to a win? What other win condition is an Atlas or DWF going to satisfy that legitimizes the extra tonnage they took? How can you justify that you did "well"? Furthermore, how can you justify that 2/3 of the team is pulling in those numbers?

Some things might be generalizations for sure. KDR certainly doesn't tell the full story. I think we all get that. However, saying that those numbers mean nothing isn't true either. I think it's completely safe to say in the screenshot above that people were doing things severely wrong.

I've done well in an assault by simply dying in the right place, at the right time. It's not always possible to get the high damage numbers and kill counts, and realizing when you're screwed for some reason and still being able to gain some kind of advantage for the team is a sign of a skilled player. My last win for the challenge actually had me scoring 67 damage in a Dire Wolf, I got shafted on the spawn points and was rushed by a couple of lights and mediums. Because I distracted them while my teammates rushed the other half of the enemy team we won losing only one mech. It's not always about you.

[Mcgral18]

Taien, on 25 August 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

Speaking as a new player, I have to say this topic is pretty inflammatory against us. I just discovered this game a few days ago, and while I've always been a fan of MW, I'm having a lot of trouble getting into this one because the learning curve is so steep. There's an ingame tutorial to teach you the basics, but after that they pretty much tell you to watch YouTube videos...and to me that seems like a pretty hands-off way to teach your players to play your somewhat complex game. For example, I have no idea what a NARC is, or how to tell I've been affected by one. I'm gathering from the comments that it's some kind of missile lock-on device for teams to pound you, but there's certainly nothing in the game to explain it to me. I try to play defensive, staying behind other people/structures, popping out to fire and going back in, but many times I have games under 100 because the starter mechs you can buy are simply too weak to do anything to the more powerful mechs (being piloted by more experienced players). I bought a Griffin, because it seemed decent from the stats. But I regularly get downed by only a few laser hits. It's impossible to get any better at a game when you die the first time you're spotted by an enemy mech. Like I can pop out, take my shot, and duck back, and in that time I lose half my front armor. (Not because I'm slow, but because it's so weak...2 enemies firing at me can kill me if they hit the right spot.) It's kinda discouraging. And then you come on the forums or listen to the ingame chat and all it is is people insulting the newbies and "blah blah blah you're so bad uninstall the game insert another stereotypical troll statement here." You're not going to get more people to play against in this game (or have anyone to play against for that matter) if you keep acting like you're playing League of Legends.

First step: Frontload your armour.

You should rarely get hit from behind, and some mechs have ridiculous amounts of rear armour. Take it off the rear, and put it on the front.

Check the New Player section for help, it's more new player friendly, as the name suggests.

[Odins Fist]

I can't remember what friend said it back in closed beta, but it goes like this.

"If you're not doing damage, you're taking damage".

Lights have a small exclusion from this, but not those that run the best weapons loadout possible for that particular mech.

If you're in a dedicated role, then you must do something within the scope of that role that contributes to a positive outcome for your team, regardless of Assault, Heavy, Medium or light.

[Gnume]

I have been playing my Raven 3L with Narc mostly for this Challenge and have most of my games end up with sub-100 damage. But in those games, there are heavy LRM's on my team and I spent the majority of the match Narcing things "stealthily" rather than let them know I was present by opening fire on them. If only they would award me like half-damage to things that I narc and people fire on...that would help show the contribution to the team.

[mogs01gt]

CaptRosha, on 25 August 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

I have been playing my Raven 3L with Narc mostly for this Challenge and have most of my games end up with sub-100 damage. But in those games, there are heavy LRM's on my team and I spent the majority of the match Narcing things "stealthily" rather than let them know I was present by opening fire on them. If only they would award me like half-damage to things that I narc and people fire on...that would help show the contribution to the team.

The issue isnt with lights using NARC. The issue is with those Jagers or phracts only doing 70 damage..That is unacceptable!

[Zolaz]

Taien, on 25 August 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

Speaking as a new player, I have to say this topic is pretty inflammatory against us. I just discovered this game a few days ago, and while I've always been a fan of MW, I'm having a lot of trouble getting into this one because the learning curve is so steep. There's an ingame tutorial to teach you the basics, but after that they pretty much tell you to watch YouTube videos...and to me that seems like a pretty hands-off way to teach your players to play your somewhat complex game. For example, I have no idea what a NARC is, or how to tell I've been affected by one. I'm gathering from the comments that it's some kind of missile lock-on device for teams to pound you, but there's certainly nothing in the game to explain it to me. I try to play defensive, staying behind other people/structures, popping out to fire and going back in, but many times I have games under 100 because the starter mechs you can buy are simply too weak to do anything to the more powerful mechs (being piloted by more experienced players). I bought a Griffin, because it seemed decent from the stats. But I regularly get downed by only a few laser hits. It's impossible to get any better at a game when you die the first time you're spotted by an enemy mech. Like I can pop out, take my shot, and duck back, and in that time I lose half my front armor. (Not because I'm slow, but because it's so weak...2 enemies firing at me can kill me if they hit the right spot.) It's kinda discouraging. And then you come on the forums or listen to the ingame chat and all it is is people insulting the newbies and "blah blah blah you're so bad uninstall the game insert another stereotypical troll statement here." You're not going to get more people to play against in this game (or have anyone to play against for that matter) if you keep acting like you're playing League of Legends.

Dear wall of text,

If you are in a Medium hide behind Assaults and Heavies until the engagement starts. You have less armor even though your model is as big as those guys. You are also faster, than the bigger mechs, so you can maneuver over to other areas to assist. That should hold you for about a week then it will be time for another lesson.

[AlexEss]

Q:How Many Sub 100 Damage Players On Your Team?

A: Enough to make me feel awesome and score like a pro!

Next please.

Edited by AlexEss, 25 August 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Bront, on 24 August 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

stuff

I'd remove the names from that.

What about 750 damage and nary a KILL? Oh wait, surely their 1(one) kill was stolen from that guy, amiright.

[ProtoformX]

LOL. You people saying damage "isn't everything" is hilarious. You know there's an objective in every match to kill all enemy 'Mechs? I don't care who you are, what you drive; doing sub 100 damage is bad bad bad. If your NARC 'Mech has no weapons, you seriously messed up. We all do it sometimes, but honestly even when I get ganked by the entire enemy team and go out blazing, I still break 100. Low damage is poor play or a crappy build; plain and simple.

[Hospy]

If it makes you feel any better, it's not like I'm having a smashingly fun time dropping into the game and getting my ass handed to me by vastly better equipped and skilled players than I am.

I love the setting, I like the game, and I'm (somewhat) enjoying myself, but the beginner's experience in this game is not a pleasant one. It's basically... here are the controls and then they throw you into the shark tank for baby's first swimming lessons.

A lot of the things in this game just aren't really explained very well. My very first match, I had that bug where some of your teammates wouldn't show up on your map with the blue icon or whatever, so I figured that only mechs with red tags on them were the enemy, and that mechs without icons on them were special friendlies or something? ECM isn't even mentioned in the tutorial, let alone anything that isn't related to shooting. Default 3rd person view and arm lock doesn't exactly help either.

At the same time, while you haven't a freaking idea what you're doing, the difference between stock machines with no efficiencies and customized ones with double heat sinks, XL engines, Endo Steel/FF with maxed efficiencies is pretty freaking big. The trial mechs are generally rubbish, and heaven help you if you pick the wrong mech with your trial match money, because surprise, you're stuck with it for like fifty matches of neverending pain and suffering, where you can buy a stock mech with no upgrades and efficiencies, and then hate yourself all over again.

I mean holy crap guys, we're trying. I'm learning, and I like to think I'm improved a lot from when I first started, but I still got a ways to go.

Meanwhile, I'm treasuring having double heat sinks for the first time.

[Deathlike]

There will always be newbies in the solo queue. It cannot be avoided.

What you really want to do is try to shepard them as much as you reasonable can, telling them where to go and YOU have to be the one to initiate the fight, because your newbie teammates aren't going to do that automatically.

YOU will still have to remind them to "NOT CHASE THE LIGHTS".

YOU will have to remind them to "stick together" but also "not stick together like glue" so you can move around and get better opportunities to focus fire.

It's hard to expect the newbies to do what you want sometimes... even if it's to remind them to TURN OFF ARM LOCK.

This weekend is too damn painful as is, so unless I randomly get a gold mech, you have to do the little things and treat players literally like newbies (and try to help them, instead of bashing them) and hope they listen. You simply cannot do the "usual" stuff like hanging back or camping... because they have no idea how to do it effectively. You'll inevitably have to hold their hands. That's how much of a commitment you're going to have to make sometimes.

What really sucks... PGI hasn't given them a good enough tutorial yet to just properly teach them how to pew pew and dakka dakka. That's the tragedy here.

[GRiPSViGiL]

BAHAHAHA! I was actually crying when I saw this. First time MWO ever brought me to tears

[BullFrogOnNet]

GRiPSViGiL, on 25 August 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

BAHAHAHA! I was actually crying when I saw this. First time MWO ever brought me to tears

OMG that brings me to tears too bro. No wonder you are having such a hard time getting your challenge completed.

Edited by BullFrogOnNet, 25 August 2014 - 05:38 PM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Those zero score guys were not DCs. We did have one though.

[Hellcat420]

Gorgo7, on 24 August 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Since this competition started I have been having alot of difficulty with the teams I end up in.
Often there are four or even six players on my team who does sub 100 damage. These players are not farming, they are simply new. So new they cannot answer typed chat (or read apparently)

Is the matchmaker screwy? Before, I would drop with Pugs that had experience and could hit what they shot at. Not this weekend.

I probably have a win loss ratio of 1/3. Ouch. It has been reversed.

I don't want to play with newbs. I did that when I started over a year ago.

Why is PGI punishing me? Are they punishing you?

Please don't leave dismissive comments. I am very upset by this and need confirmation that this is not happening just to me.

elo working as intended, you are only put in games with people at your own skill level. move along!

[Gorgo7]

Deathlike, on 25 August 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

There will always be newbies in the solo queue. It cannot be avoided.

What really sucks... PGI hasn't given them a good enough tutorial yet to just properly teach them how to pew pew and dakka dakka. That's the tragedy here.

My point is not that the "Newbs are letting me down" or anything like that.
My point is that I have been playing very heavily in the PUG que for the last two months or so. My opponents seem to have had a similar skill set with the team I was in and the fights had been pretty good!
It's only in this last challenge that the skill level seems to be all over the map!
Are there team players that haven't plugged for months or years and now are simply overwhelmed and making elementary errors because their teams aren't around and the pugs play differently?
Has there been a new marketing campaign bringing in new players at unusual rates?
Has the matchmaker been changed so that the teams are balanced but the skill level is enormously wide?

Oh well, the challenge is almost over. Maybe things will return to normal...at least for me!

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

[Deathlike]

Gorgo7, on 25 August 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

My point is not that the "Newbs are letting me down" or anything like that.
My point is that I have been playing very heavily in the PUG que for the last two months or so. My opponents seem to have had a similar skill set with the team I was in and the fights had been pretty good!
It's only in this last challenge that the skill level seems to be all over the map!
Are there team players that haven't plugged for months or years and now are simply overwhelmed and making elementary errors because their teams aren't around and the pugs play differently?
Has there been a new marketing campaign bringing in new players at unusual rates?
Has the matchmaker been changed so that the teams are balanced but the skill level is enormously wide?

Oh well, the challenge is almost over. Maybe things will return to normal...at least for me!

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Let me put it in simpler terms.

Think of any queue as having some sort of equilibrium. It takes time for a game at every skill levels to settle in for the players so that they may be placed better in the future.

With a challenge that involves STRICTLY the solo queue, that equilibrium is disturbed... to the point where it is actually chaotic in nature. If the challenge extended over a longer period of time (say a month), then we know what that new equilibrium happens to be. Since the challenge will end on patch day Tuesday, it "should" be back to normal, because players that normally WOULD NOT drop into the solo queue will be back doing their usual stuff in the group queue.

Chances are, people are getting "more exposed" to what the solo queue has been for quite a while... being generally of lower quality. That's what most people that have been most vocal are commenting on.

The thing about Elo with respect to the MM is that it tries to average out the Elos as best it can, so when some high Elo player is playing, chances he will drag some lower Elo players with him to "average things out". That is the nature of Elo used here (not this 50/50 deal, but it kinda operates under that principle loosely).

I hope that clears things up.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 August 2014 - 07:28 PM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

How many sub 100 damage players do you see during group queue stomps? Same issues, same jerks, different day.

Edited by lockwoodx, 25 August 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[Flyby215]

GRiPSViGiL, on 25 August 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

BAHAHAHA! I was actually crying when I saw this. First time MWO ever brought me to tears

Wow! And I thought I had bad matches. That's so awful I'd dare say it was staged!

Have you considered a class change? I had switched from my usual heavy class (Timber Wolf or Jester) to mediums (Stormcrow 6xERML + Narc 2xammo) and got myself onto several win-streaks through the day.