Grrzoot, on 25 August 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:
I do not beleive that pgi is going to allow solo players to ever play against groups at this point. Given the sucess of the cue split. Perhaps they will allow you to "opt in" to playing in the group cue and you have to take into consideration the advantages you are giving up by doing so. But i see this as a non issue.
There is never going to be a magic button to take a group of people who don't know each other at all and put them against a group of people who play together all the time and have it balanced. Regardless of how many scenarios you come up with if you look at all the edge cases, they are too far apart to come to the middle.
The only way to balance solo players, is against other solo players. In my experience even when i randomly get a teamate or two from my unit in the solo drop, we generally perform much better as even just a two or 3 man group than normally would happen as just a solo player in the solo cue.
Voip or not. You can give everyone voip but that will not fundamentally change the structure of how solo drops work, and quite honestly, a 6 man group of the more competitive units can usually smoke a whole 12 man of pugs. That is why the cues are seperate and why they should remain that way.
Yes we are going to have cw, but it is going to be the same, group v group and solo v solo.
Anytime you make the game appear to have an element of pre-determination, i got the crappy 6 man and you got the good 6 man. It makes the game less enjoyable for the participants who are solo.
Every indication is that the player population isn't large enough to support even more splits to the queues so I don't see how they would get around it.
Kjudoon, on 25 August 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:
If you had a scale of 1-1000, and a 50 point difference is a significant issue in balance of skill, this is what happens.
12 guys drop in group. You have 3 members at 1000 points, 5 at 100 points and the remainder at 400 points, you will get a group average of 425.
Now let's say that 12man and compare it to a group of 3 4mans who have something similar.
One group has a member at 1000, the rest at 300, giving a group average of 475
The 2nd group has 3 members at 600 and one at 100 also giving an average of 475
The 3rd group has 2 members at 350 and 2 at 600 giving an average 475
Seems nice and balanced, right? BUt now let's compare the teams as a whole.
12man ----- 3x4
(425) ----- (475)
1000 ----- 1000
1000 ----- 600
1000 ----- 600
400 ----- 600
400 ----- 600
400 ----- 600
400 ----- 350
100 ----- 350
100 ----- 100
100 ----- 100
100 ----- 100
100 ----- 100
Notice, in the group queue, with averaging... (on paper this is a nominally balanced match. It's only 50 points different and the advantage is towards the 3x4 group). Unfortunately, only half of the group is evenly matched all the 100's and one 400-350 and one 1000. Is this going to be a fair fight? Not even close unless someone on the 3x4 group gets incredibly lucky. Why?
The 12man is all on a single coordinated teamspeak. The 3x4 is on THREE different teamspeaks doing their own thing even if it is trying to help one another. This is something I hear whinged about in the solo queue by players not willing to fess up and admit to themselves they don't play well with others, and that is why they lose. As an example, I sync dropped today about 5-6 times with teammates without realizing it because I wasn't in TS. I won some, I lost some... Just the same as if I would have moved into channel with them.
Also consider in this example, three 1000 elo players should be able to eat through the other 11 players like Augustus Gloop on all things edible. The poor players sitting down at 100 are outclassed on every level and shouldn't even be in this fight, just as much as every player at 1000 shouldn't be in this fight... But the elo is "balanced" according to the group queue MM logic.
This cannot happen in the solo queue. Most of these players, if the elo spread was capped at 250, although the same rule would not have stopped this mismatch in the group queue, would never see each other and generally never should. This is what encourages players and teams to sync drop. Because even if you don't manage to get any of your teammates into your side, you are at least more evenly balanced.
Now why bring back the small queue? Because these levels of imbalance get smaller. It's why the SoloQQ crowd freaked out about Lances till PGI took that mode away without considering the consequences... or just figured it's "Working as Intendedtm" There were elo mixmatches, but nowhere near as severe. This is why you need to return a small group queue where solo players not totally terrified of the ebil premade can play with groups of 2-4 in a more casual setting with smaller mismatches. You don't have the ability to get hardcore teams dropping there en masse, and if they do, they're far more balanced.
There's your major difference and problem with Stomptown... I mean the group queue and a solution on how to fix it...
well groups also have their Elo artificially inflated as a handicap