46 replies to this topic

[Roland]

3500 gxp and 3 million cbills gets you 60m additional range.

That seems to not be worth it.

[Jack Avery]

Vassago Rain, on 26 August 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

It got converted to the money only Wang.

Well, yeah, I remember that. Figured you had something snarkier and more epic up your sleeve.

And yet it's still depressing all the same, because they just aren't the same damn thing.

[Lyoto Machida]

Roland, on 26 August 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

3500 gxp and 3 million cbills gets you 60m additional range.

That seems to not be worth it.

If we're talking SRMs, it might.

[Y E O N N E]

Fut, on 26 August 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

Mmhmm... It's nice, just wish:

I'd like to add that heat should never be touched; heat should always be the same.

[Tristan Winter]

Vassago Rain, on 26 August 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

It's a change that brings only positive effects. It's small, but it's all positive. There are no hooks, no bait, no catches, no funny penalty mechanics, it's not over-engineered, and it gives me something to spend c-bills and GXP on.
Because of all that, I must conclude that it's a good addition to the game. Now give me some fun ones that let my LBX shoot AC10 bullets, and disable the gauss charge mechanic.

Here's a catch:

New players just got nerfed a sixth time.

"Welcome to MWO! As soon as you finish cadet period, you will face players who have:

• Two more years of experience and tens of thousands of matches played, since Matchmaker doesn't care who you get matched up against. If you think we have separate queues for the top 10% players in the game, you're in for a surprise.
  
• Better, more expensive mechs, with XL engines, DHS, Endo-steel, Artemis and other stuff you can't afford
  
• Consumables like UAV and artillery, since they have more C-bills than they need and don't mind spending their income to improve their stats
  
• All mechs mastered since 2013. They're faster, run cooler, more agile and more accurate.
  
• Up to 3 mech modules that you won't be able to afford for months, due to GXP and C-bill costs. Target info gathering, advanced target decay... you don't know what those things are, don't worry about it.
  
• Weapon modules that just generally make their weapons better than yours, with no disadvantages at all. You won't have those for a long, long, long time.

Good luck, Mechwarrior!

PS: If you want to play on an even playing field, it's going to cost you."

[Creovex]

Vassago Rain, on 26 August 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

It's a change that brings only positive effects. It's small, but it's all positive. There are no hooks, no bait, no catches, no funny penalty mechanics, it's not over-engineered, and it gives me something to spend c-bills and GXP on.

Because of all that, I must conclude that it's a good addition to the game. Now give me some fun ones that let my LBX shoot AC10 bullets, and disable the gauss charge mechanic.

Hit the nail right on the head....

[Fut]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 26 August 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

Here's a catch:

New players just got nerfed a sixth time.

"Welcome to MWO! As soon as you finish cadet period, you will face players who have:

• Two more years of experience and tens of thousands of matches played, since Matchmaker doesn't care who you get matched up against. If you think we have separate queues for the top 10% players in the game, you're in for a surprise.
  
• Better, more expensive mechs, with XL engines, DHS, Endo-steel, Artemis and other stuff you can't afford
  
• Consumables like UAV and artillery, since they have more C-bills than they need and don't mind spending their income to improve their stats
  
• All mechs mastered since 2013. They're faster, run cooler, more agile and more accurate.
  
• Up to 3 mech modules that you won't be able to afford for months, due to GXP and C-bill costs. Target info gathering, advanced target decay... you don't know what those things are, don't worry about it.
  
• Weapon modules that just generally make their weapons better than yours, with no disadvantages at all. You won't have those for a long, long, long time.

Good luck, Mechwarrior!



PS: If you want to play on an even playing field, it's going to cost you."

Umm... So you want new players to get all the same gear and experience as the people who've spent years playing to gain all of this? How does that make sense?

[EvilCow]

Modules are nice but I wonder if this is a case on mono-dimensional thinking. Why just range? they could have considered a lot of other parameters: damage, heat, spread, speed, recycle, splash, lock time, burst duration, beam duration and possibly more.

[Tristan Winter]

Fut, on 27 August 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Umm... So you want new players to get all the same gear and experience as the people who've spent years playing to gain all of this? How does that make sense?

It doesn't make sense. I'm saying they shouldn't play each other. Two examples:

• Look at a game such as Star Conflict, which revolves around starships (frigates, fighters and scouts) with various weapons, modules and equipment that can be tailored for different roles and playstyles. Some frigates focus on long range combat, for example, whereas others focus on engineering (drone warfare, warp gates and repairs)
  
  
  There are different tiers of starships, and you start at Tier 1, working your way up to Tier 2, etc.
  
  Now, the veteran players can easily unlock all the best upgrades and weapons for Tier 1 ships and just hang around in low Tier queues, fighting new players with inferior skills and upgrades. But there's really no point in that, because winning low tier matches give very low income compared to a Tier 4 match, for example. If you want to buy a new Tier 4 starship, it's much more profitable to play Tier 4 matches, where you'll face tougher starships and more experienced players, earning more money.
  
  Every time you move on to a higher Tier, you get more content, more advanced gameplay, more money. But this is balanced by the fact that all your opponents also have the same stuff, and they are increasingly skilled as you progress in the game. In other words, the most experienced players can choose to fight at a low or high level, but they can't bring high level ships to fight in low level matches.
  
  In MWO, this would be like only giving new players stock mechs with Tech 1 equipment. No gauss, no ER PPC, no Artemis, no DHS, etc. And just to be clear, new players in stock mechs would have no chance of ever dropping against a veteran player in a Dire Wolf with 2xCERPPC and 2xGauss.

• MMORPGs handle it differently, usually. You can play PVP battles in WoW at level 40-49 or 80-89. Different brackets, but the higher brackets have more content, more advanced gameplay, bigger rewards and more skilled opponents. The difference is, when you've progressed to level 90, there's no way you can still fight level 40 opponents. You can switch back to level 40 gear (which would be like dropping in a Commando or Dragon), but you won't face new players.

2 different approaches, 2 different solutions to the same problem. Just lumping everyone together in the same queue with a very, very questionable Matchmaker is bad for games where you keep getting more and more skills and better equipment.

Edited by Nicolai Kabrinsky, 27 August 2014 - 11:09 AM.

[Sprouticus]

cSand, on 26 August 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

These are good changes. However...

I wish we could change all of our modules in the "select mech" screen instead of just consumables. Why someone changed that to just consumables makes no sense. Being able to swap all the modules in one place, without having to click through the damn mechlab was awesome. Why deliberately make the UI more of a PITA?

I complained about this when it happened. It is annoying as hell. Russ said he did not think it would be an easy fix...

[VeryVizzy]

Vassago Rain, on 26 August 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

It's a change that brings only positive effects. It's small, but it's all positive. There are no hooks, no bait, no catches, no funny penalty mechanics, it's not over-engineered, and it gives me something to spend c-bills and GXP on.

Sorry to ruin the mood but there are negative effects:
.

• Power Creep: Better weapons means faster time to kill, when just the opposite (a slower time to kill) is what most people would agree the game could benefit from.

• Another Disadvantage for New Players: It's already a very long grind for someone new to obtain 3 mech variants to get the all important elite skills and double basics, adding on another hefty grind is hardly making it easier on them.

• Encourages boating: And also further discourages mixed weapon loadouts. If you're limited to 1-3 weapon modules you're also limited to 1-3 fully effective weapons. Stock loadout mechs were already at a heavy disadvantage and now most of them are even further behind the curve.

Also stating that because the other modules do not have a negative effect justifies these purely positive weapon modules is a flawed argument. Both a positive and a negative effect for all modules could be a good thing, it might even bring into line the likes of Seismic Sensor, Radar Deprivation, and the strikes.

Having Modules such as +20*% Optimal Range, -20*% Max Range could lead to interesting choices. For instance, if you equiped medium lasers on a brawler, having full damage lasers between 270m-334m could pair nicely with another weapon while the loss in max range would mean less. Conversely extending the max range while decreasing the optimal could suit a longer range build, allowing the now weaker at mid range (220m-400m ish) medium lasers hit further out, perhaps suiting the pilots preferred engagement range better.

This is just one example.

It would be a way to customise and tailor your mech to your own personal tastes, without it being a straight up advantage. Something I thought modules in general were supposed to do?




*numbers can obviously be tweaked

Edited by VeryVizzy, 27 August 2014 - 04:14 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

VeryVizzy, on 27 August 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

Sorry to ruin the mood but there are negative effects:
.

• Power Creep: Better weapons means faster time to kill, when just the opposite (a slower time to kill) is what most people would agree the game could benefit from.

• Another Disadvantage for New Players: It's already a very long grind for someone new to obtain 3 mech variants to get the all important elite skills and double basics, adding on another hefty grind is hardly making it easier on them.

• Encourages boating: And also further discourages mixed weapon loadouts. If you're limited to 1-3 weapon modules you're also limited to 1-3 fully effective weapons. Stock loadout mechs were already at a heavy disadvantage and now most of them are even further behind the curve.

Also stating that because the other modules do not have a negative effect justifies these purely positive weapon modules is a flawed argument. Both a positive and a negative effect for all modules could be a good thing, it might even bring into line the likes of Seismic Sensor, Radar Deprivation, and the strikes.


Having Modules such as +20*% Optimal Range, -20*% Max Range could lead to interesting choices. For instance, if you equiped medium lasers on a brawler, having full damage lasers between 270m-334m could pair nicely with another weapon while the loss in max range would mean less. Conversely extending the max range while decreasing the optimal could suit a longer range build, allowing the now weaker at mid range (220m-400m ish) medium lasers hit further out, perhaps suiting the pilots preferred engagement range better.

This is just one example.

It would be a way to customise and tailor your mech to your own personal tastes, without it being a straight up advantage. Something I thought modules in general were supposed to do?




*numbers can obviously be tweaked

Yes, upgrades have a habit of making your guns...upgraded guns. So they kill things faster and are more effective.

It's kind of the point-

[Y E O N N E]

Vassago Rain, on 27 August 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

Yes, upgrades have a habit of making your guns...upgraded guns. So they kill things faster and are more effective.

It's kind of the point-

That's not necessarily the way they should work, though. Instead, they should make your guns kill things faster under certain conditions, conditions that you picked via the module type you chose because such changes to the weapon complement the way you play the game.

[El Bandito]

10% for 5 tiers is still too much. PGI should just stop at T3.

[Khobai]

They should just stop at tier 1, there is no reason to have 5 levels

also certain weapons should share modules like SRM2, SRM4, SRM6, etc...

its pointless having seperate modules for different types of SRMs, all it does is make the skill screen a garbled mess

Edited by Khobai, 27 August 2014 - 10:33 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 26 August 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

Here's a catch:
New players just got nerfed a sixth time.
"Welcome to MWO! As soon as you finish cadet period, you will face players who have:"

Sorry, I got this wrong. New players don't even get to finish cadet period before they're thrown in with the sharks. Yesterday, I talked to a pilot who was playing his third match of MWO... ever. He was still in the same queue as Founders who have been playing regularly for over two years.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 27 August 2014 - 11:38 PM, said:

Sorry, I got this wrong. New players don't even get to finish cadet period before they're thrown in with the sharks. Yesterday, I talked to a pilot who was playing his third match of MWO... ever. He was still in the same queue as Founders who have been playing regularly for over two years.

This.
I've been complaining about it...well since ever.TBH I don't know if it is worse for that newbie to be in a game with players like me with over 11k drops or for me that I have that weak link in a match...but that is problem we do not have any leagues or sth...just MM which apparently do not work

[Y E O N N E]

When the Path to Victory Challenge first started, I kept getting thrown in as one of maybe two or three experienced players on a team of people on still in their Cadet phase...while in my Locust. The results were predictable.

Eventually, the game stopped doing that, but for the first 15 matches it was painful.

[Fut]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 28 August 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

This.
I've been complaining about it...well since ever.TBH I don't know if it is worse for that newbie to be in a game with players like me with over 11k drops or for me that I have that weak link in a match...but that is problem we do not have any leagues or sth...just MM which apparently do not work

I really do believe that the new players need to be mixed in with Vets in order to improve their skills. Being able to watch, mimic and learn from people who've been playing for years is way better experience than all rookies playing match after match with/against each other.

[wanderer]

Quote

This latest change to the weapon modules is nice... Keep up the good work, this system is really turning for the better.

Of course, they're now nerfing Clan lasers (and ERLL) so you'll need to pay that 3 million module tax for slightly less effective weapons than when you started.

Excellent work indeed.