14 replies to this topic

[D A T A]

Now, with largelaser that has 500 range, 7 heat for 9 damage and only 5 tons



I removed ppcs from all my mechs


this means you overnerfed them

ppcs now must have 1500 speed,

[Cyborne Elemental]

Fully restoring speed, while preferable, requires that other measures need to be in place to maintain balance right?
I would honestly prefer somewhere in the middle, 1250 seems a good average.

PPC's are just too hot to be using them in a brawl, which is all their speed allows for now, or for shooting the new guy that stares at you while you melt his face, and with their speed at 850/950 that 1000-1600 meter range doesn't mean much if you can't hit targets with it at those ranges.

Edited by Mister D, 26 August 2014 - 03:48 PM.

[alanely]

Mister D, on 26 August 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

Fully restoring speed, while preferable, requires that other measures need to be in place to maintain balance right?
I would honestly prefer somewhere in the middle, 1250 seems a good average.

PPC's are just too hot to be using them in a brawl, which is all their speed allows for now, or for shooting the new guy that stares at you while you melt his face, and with their speed at 850/950 that 1000-1600 meter range doesn't mean much if you can't hit targets with it at those ranges.

i can hit things just fine unless it a light, in life you have to do this thing called LEADING THE TARGET then watch the arm full off trust me fell sooo goood that or CLPL's cos clans
ps hyper but yer hiting at range with ppc is harder but not inprob form my book

[Solis Obscuri]

Pinpoint damage is still pinpoint damage.

[Lightfoot]

Solis Obscuri, on 26 August 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Pinpoint damage is still pinpoint damage.

There is no pin point from PPCs, Ghost heat insures you can only fire two at once, even then the mech overheats after a short time. 20 damage is not that much compared to ballistics, lasers, you name it.

[StalaggtIKE]

Lightfoot, on 26 August 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

There is no pin point from PPCs, Ghost heat insures you can only fire two at once, even then the mech overheats after a short time. 20 damage is not that much compared to ballistics, lasers, you name it.

Pin point. I do not think it means, what you think it means.

[Lightfoot]

The speed reduction of PPCs was the tipping point in Clan vs Inner Sphere tech. You can't make a competitive Inner Sphere mech anymore out of most chassis. You will see this is so over the next few weeks I think.

Prior to the PPC speed nerf I was going against Clan mechs, any of them, in an AWS-8Q and doing decently. After the nerf the PPCs are only accurate at 300 meters, but have a minimum range of 90. Anyway, I went from being mildly successful with an AWS-8Q with 2xPPCs and lasers to not being able to win more than 1 in 10 games. I switch to a Clan mech and win 7 out of 10.

My advice is you stop listening to players who whine this weapon or that is killing them and focus on keeping Inner Sphere weaponry competitive with Clan tech. We are past the time when weapons are OP or not, now we are in the time of are Clan and Inner Sphere weapons balanced and no they are not. The I.S. PPC was the counter to Clan ER Mediums and many ballistics and now it's gone, totally worthless.

[Lightfoot]

StalaggtIKE, on 26 August 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

Pin point. I do not think it means, what you think it means.

I know PP FLD, blah blah. Well PP FLD got a buff from the synchronization of PPCs and AC10's travel times. They all hit at once now. So 2xAC10 and 2xPPC make 40 points of damage and I haven't even gotten to the Dire Wolf.

Front Loaded weapon's accuracy is equalized by having lower damage per second over Burstfire or DPS. It is up to the player choosing burstfire/DPS weapons to execute well enough to get the damage bonus, but accuracy is less of a factor in doing well than it is with FLD weapons. That is how the two weapon types are balanced. FLD weapons are not balanced by removing them from the game or making them so slow they become unusable.

Beyond that there is no pin point focusing of damage if you move laterally to your attacker because the different travel times spread the damage across all mech sections. I learned this back in MW3 I think so I just brought that with me into MWO and it has always worked very well at spreading the damage even before the Gauss de-sync. The problem is most players in MWO do not move laterally or even move at all while in a battle. They just stand there and make themselves a very fat target and all the weapons travel at different speeds to the targeted point. That is not OP, or a flaw. It's the feature called "Mech Piloting Skill"!



.

Edited by Lightfoot, 26 August 2014 - 07:25 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Reducing the ability of any average player to even use the PPC/ERPPC, and the crappy state of Clan AC's (except for boating ultimate dakka spam Diashi) is pushing everyone to use other weapons, which is fine, but IMO not when its LRM boating.

Laser hitreg is iffy most of the time, and I honestly believe this is one of the key issues pushing players to invest in all the LRM spam.

LRM's are the cheap alternative, and well.. they work, so everyone is spamming the hell out of them, because there really is no alternative for clans besides Gauss for putting damage on long range targets while staying mobile or staying out of sight to reduce exposure.

Clan AC's particularly are bad at putting DOT, they're not cost effective for what you get, and PPC's are not reliable and extremely hot to be putting damage where you want it with this low speed.

[Kmieciu]

Lightfoot, on 26 August 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:

The speed reduction of PPCs was the tipping point in Clan vs Inner Sphere tech. You can't make a competitive Inner Sphere mech anymore out of most chassis. You will see this is so over the next few weeks I think.

I agree. In the hands of a competitive player, the PPC used to be more deadly than Clan ERPPC, because he could hit the enemy weak spots time and time again. On the plus side, you don't see many 2xERPPC+Gauss Timber Wolves or 2xERPPC 2xGauss Dire Wolves anymore, at least not in the solo queue. PPC are still useful against slow moving mechs, but so are lasers and clan ACs.

Having completed the 50 win challenge, the most deadly weapons in my opinion are the Gauss and ERML. In fact, 3xERML> 2xIS LL. 3 tonnes > 10 tonnes.

[EvilCow]

PPC has been hit too heavily in the last pass. PPC-only configs were never a problem, it is the coupling with the Gauss the problem.

That idea to not allow the 2 weapons to fire simultaneously was way better of this nerf. I would extend the idea by not allowing simultaneous fire of pinpoint weapons for more than 30 points of damage. Weapons exceeding 30 would be fired after a small delay, half second for example.

It would be a general rule, easy to understand, and also addressing PPC+AC, AC+Gauss and any other possible combination. PGI devs please consider this.

[Solis Obscuri]

PPC only configs could be problematic - there was much hatred for the 4 or 5 PPC Stalker, for instance. Terribly vulnerable on open ground, but nasty hill peeking. Gauss-only configs weren't as powerful, but much more heat efficient. The combination was inevitable. The weapon-by-weapon nerfs have been awkward, though, and the heat penalty and charge-lockout mechanics aren't intuitive for a new player. A comprehensive mechanic addressing large alpha strikes alone would be preferable, but alas, for whatever reason it has not been pursued.

[EvilCow]

Under the proposed rules PPCs boats would no more be possible even non considering the ghost heat mechanism. Alphas above 30 would be de-synced automatically. 3 PPCs or 2 CERPPCs would be the maximum in a single alpha.

In general I would like to see one clearly defined rule that can address all the possible cases of excessive pinpoint alpha strike, "max 30 points of damage per alpha" sounds unambiguous and would allow for the unboated single weapons to shine.

The current slowed down PPCs didn't really address the pinpoint problem but impacted heavily light and medium mechs carrying just one or two PPCs and those have never been an issue.

The PPC+Gauss de-sych idea has been proposed by Paul initially, I find it surprising that then they went for the unpopular PPC slowdown instead, the idea had merits, even more if formulated in a more general form.

Edited by EvilCow, 27 August 2014 - 03:22 AM.

[DeathlyEyes]

I only use PPCs on brawlers. Pretty sure that's not what they are for.

[Desintegrator]

Yeah PPCs are close range weapons now ! (...you cannot hit anything which moves at 500m...)

But are the meant for close range ?
PGI says: YES

But when they should be used at close range, why do they have the "zero damage beyond 90m" nerf ??
Is the PPC just meant to deal damage between 300 - 90m distance ?

But what happens if the enemy pilot dont forgot his brain at home and goes into close combat beyond 90m ?
Yeah, then you're history !

And your 2 Med Laser wont help much...

So forget this weapon. Its completely useless.
Until the Lasers are nerved in the next upcoming patch - use the Lasers !