247 replies to this topic

[S3dition]

RadioKies, on 17 September 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

I'm not a MWT founder, but:


http://www.kitguru.n...aliens-lawsuit/

How is that good news? Of the money remaining out of the $1.25m settlement, it only returns full payment to 14,710 customers. That's barely a drop in the bucket.

In this case, It might get all the founders $5 back.

[S3dition]

Mal, on 16 September 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

So, obviously, what I'm posting now is my own opinion, based on my research... This has nothing to do with my being a moderator here (in fact, I'm reluctant to post it, because I don't want this to blow up on PGI, or the other mods).. but, I'm also a MWT Founder, and know that the information needs to get out there.

Let's leave PGI out of this, and of course, remember to stay respectful so I don't have to moderate myself




Okay, did some digging today while at work...because, who wants to work
while they're at work.. right?


The key is to follow the money.

Start here:
http://www.clickonli...-montreal/4663/



So, these FTQ guys, are the initial investors that got IGP going (and,
presumably the various previously referenced Government funding).
Between the two sources of funding, IGP seeded production on the three
games that were in their publishing 'stable' at one point (Sins of a
Dark Age, MWT, and MWO)

Without rehashing history... things happen. MWT slips (no developer as
of December 2013). MWO moves to launch. The SoDA guys get out of their
publishing deal with IGP, and get another publisher (or self publish on
Steam, not 100% sure which).


IGP has various staff turn over (and, let's be fair.. most IGP
employees have no blame in any of this)

IGP now has two games, only one of which is producing any income for
them (whatever IGP's cut of MWO's revenue is.. I don't know, and I don't
care).


FTQ is an investor, and unlike the thousands of us throwing money at
kickstarter for games, they want a financial return on their
investment... which IGP at some point this year, apparently became
unable to provide.

Basically, it looks like FTQ (who, by the way, can be located here:
http://www.fondsftq.com ), pulled their support from IGP.. and it's been
all down hill from there. It sounds like Kelly Zmac is another victim
of the loss of funding (as in, it doesn't sound like he voluntarily left IGP).


With IGP apparently having closed up shop quietly (though, there is
always the possibility they'll sell the MWT license to another
publisher/developer), we're up the proverbial creek.

The odds of FTQ responding to us, let alone returning any money to the
Founders..are pretty much non-existant. I think our only recourse is to
file chargebacks with our respective banks. Like I mentioned earlier,
make sure you've got some documented attempts to communicate with IGP to
go with your claim. MC/Visa both require that.

But that doesn't absolve Kelly from the responsibility of actually telling the customers what is transpiring. If IGP was bankrupt, or if it even looked like production would halt, it was his obligation to alert current and potential customers. By continuing to sell a product that they no longer had intention of delivering, they were committing fraud. You cannot continue to collect money for products and/or services when you know that you cannot produce them.

[Mal]

S3dition, on 17 September 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

But that doesn't absolve Kelly from the responsibility of actually telling the customers what is transpiring. If IGP was bankrupt, or if it even looked like production would halt, it was his obligation to alert current and potential customers. By continuing to sell a product that they no longer had intention of delivering, they were committing fraud. You cannot continue to collect money for products and/or services when you know that you cannot produce them.

Depends (to an extent) on when Kelly left IGP... they're obviously pretty bad at updating their website to show who's doing what (since it still shows - even before things really went bad - people we know have moved on. If Kelly left in (and, totally making this up, just for example purposes) say October of last year.. the game would still have been under active development, etc..

If (and we all know this is more likely) he left when FTQ pulled their funding. He's responsible for the mess leading up to that point, and all the various failures to communicate what was going on post-BLG departure. But, clearly, can't be held responsible for what happens at IGP (whatever is left of it), after he left.

[S3dition]

Mal, on 18 September 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

Depends (to an extent) on when Kelly left IGP... they're obviously pretty bad at updating their website to show who's doing what (since it still shows - even before things really went bad - people we know have moved on. If Kelly left in (and, totally making this up, just for example purposes) say October of last year.. the game would still have been under active development, etc..

If (and we all know this is more likely) he left when FTQ pulled their funding. He's responsible for the mess leading up to that point, and all the various failures to communicate what was going on post-BLG departure. But, clearly, can't be held responsible for what happens at IGP (whatever is left of it), after he left.

But the game went defunct before he left. The fact is, the reason the game went through 3 developers and completely failed is solely his responsibility as CEO. They were never transparent about the status of MW:T and continued attempting to make money from it knowing that bad things were around the corner. Kelly could have pulled the plug at any time up to his departure, or at the very least made a public comment about it.

If people think PGI doesn't communicate, they should be ******** bricks over this little lapse in communication from IGP. Bottom line, the CEO knew everything that was going on and the stop in cash flow, but elected not to inform consumers about it, and that is illegal.

[Bilbo]

Meh. I lost 20 dollars. I played the closed beta enough to know that I had thrown the money away anyway.

[Mal]

Heard back from Kelly today... Here's the update that IGP provided to him:

Quote

IGP Update for the community:
The game is still offline and will be offline for a while longer but the game is not cancelled, IGP is seeking a new partner/developer and a new hosting location for the game.
We hope to bring the game back online soon. We will reach out to the community when we have a timeline to go live.

We apologize for the downtime and the silence. We know it has been frustrating for the players and for those who are wondering what is happening with the game.

Some of you have been reaching out to Blue Lizard Games for an update, BLG is not working on the project and is unable to provide any information on the game.

Thank you for your patience as we work through these changes.

He says IGP is trying to get the Facebook page updated with this information as well.



While I hope that the game truly isn't cancelled... the fact that we've had to dig for an update.. and go through a FORMER employee (even if said employee was the CEO), to get that update... is not encouraging. At this point, I very much doubt there will be a community left for IGP to get in touch with "soon".

I still encourage everyone (especially the higher tier Founders) to investigate a charge back with their banks..



edit: Kelly's email to me, did state that he'd follow up with IGP next week, and see if there were more details available about when the game would be back online. I'll let you know if I hear more from him.

Edited by Mal, 18 September 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[Fiachdubh]

Glad I didn't get a MWT founders pack then.

[Mal]

S3dition, on 18 September 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

But the game went defunct before he left. The fact is, the reason the game went through 3 developers and completely failed is solely his responsibility as CEO. They were never transparent about the status of MW:T and continued attempting to make money from it knowing that bad things were around the corner. Kelly could have pulled the plug at any time up to his departure, or at the very least made a public comment about it.

Ehh.. I've been following the game since day 1, and I still couldn't tell you what, if anything, ACRONYM did on it (so, I don't really count them). Roadhouse was making good progress, sure, it wasn't as fast as people would have liked (myself included), but it was progress. Once IGP dropped RH, and shifted to BLG (who, seem like nice enough guys) is when development really stopped (I can't say slowed down, because.. that implies some movement still happened).

At least with RH leaving, the community was informed of what was going on..Granted, it was after the fact, and not really until shortly before BLG was announced as the new developer team.. but there was at least some communication around that dev change.

With BLG getting let go.... the community was never told they were gone.. and still wouldn't know, if BLG hadn't gotten tired of people pestering them, and finally said something. Heck, I have a feeling the only reason BLG is mentioned in the 'update' from IGP...is because we already knew they were off the project!


Kelly is definitely to blame for the mess that occurred while he was still there, whatever has happened since he left (whenever that was), we can't really blame him for. He may have had to sign some sort of NDA when he left...

[Sandpit]

you guys might talk to whoever is heading up the mekwars and megamek projects and see if they'd be interested.

[RadioKies]

S3dition, on 17 September 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

How is that good news? Of the money remaining out of the $1.25m settlement, it only returns full payment to 14,710 customers. That's barely a drop in the bucket.

In this case, It might get all the founders $5 back.

Better something than nothing? Plus bad publicity for the guys and they have to pay instead of getting away with it.

It's just like not reporting a crime, because why bother? You don't get anything from reporting most crimes, so why should anyone? Yeah do that, and the next time you read/hear the news they're telling that the crimerate went down again and conclude that they (the goverment) can spend less on police patrols/security.

Thats the kind of mentality that let people get away with the **** they do.

[driftrobot]

I was tempted to get the founders pack for MWT but went with MWO instead..

Hopefully the MWT saga will turn out for the better

[Garandos]

I talked to the paysafe support earlier this day (mostly of interest for german founders)

i put the whole case up, and explained, how it, evidence we have (IGP having no license anymore, game was dead in the water since 2013,
company did pretend it was worked on still) it has to be seen as fraud.

Paysafe *might* refund the cash, they need the Paysafe card code, and as many transaction details as possible.

[Draal Kaan]

Too bad that MWT seems to dead. Or somewhat vanished in developers pandemonium.

....And sad about the money i wasted as founder there.

[Mal]

For those interested, the MWT "longest 72 hours ever" maintenance page, has been updated late last night, to reflect the update they provided to Kelly.

[AzureDragoon]

What the page says:

Quote

MechWarrior Tactics will remain offline for a while longer.

We apologize for the downtime as we look for a new infrastructure to host the game and a new development partner. We hope to have the live game soon.

We will post an update here as soon as we have a timeline to go live

What they mean:

Quote

Ooops, we got caught, lol. So yea, the real story is that we lied, and have no proper servers, or developers for this game now....Funny isn't it?

[Andrew Osis]

Damn I paid them 40 bucks....

[Shin Ken]

Well, the 20 bucks I drowned into this were waisted money anyway looking at the state of the game, when it was still playable. So I'm not too annoyed by this. It's not that the loss kills me financially. I basically already wrote the money off 20 minutes after I have started the web-application over two years ago.

Much like the money I drowned as MWO founder. From time to time you make bad purchases. I've learned a lesson: Don't throw money at something which can't be be evaluated in advance even if you're the biggest fan of the original IP and want it really really badly.
You need to know exactly what you're getting OR have development dudes you really trust to make such a purchase.

[Andrew Osis]

Ya that Unity web app they used sucked balls and I ran it on various different machines, also on different people machines and still no luck it always ran like **** mo matter what kinda power you had.

[Blackfang]

It's a shame, I actually kind of enjoyed Mechwarrior Tactics and I think could have been a fantastic 3025 Battletech alternative to megamek.

[Sandpit]

Blackfang, on 20 September 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

It's a shame, I actually kind of enjoyed Mechwarrior Tactics and I think could have been a fantastic 3025 Battletech alternative to megamek.

you know they have a 3025 server for MM right?