66 replies to this topic

[gamingogre]

I am so sick of trying to play in group and finding only LRM groups. They are invincible. I mostly play Ballistics; and from my point of view, things are way out of balance. Just last round, I am in a cataphract. Full armor, i pop up to shoot and in that 2-3 second window I am locked for LRMs. I back up down the mountain and am out of sight from all enemies and no uav. I keep backing up and getting hit by missiles; there is no narc or spotter. I die from these missiles that held lock for 12+ seconds. How do you hold a lock for so long? Unless this is a hack (which i doubt) Clan missiles and lock times have broken this game. I didn't have a single round hit 100+ damage all night in the group queue. Every time it's the same story. LRM lock on, I run to cover. Cover fails and I die. The weapons are meant to be like rock, paper, scissors. Yet in most of my mechs (the non-ECM ones) there is no check for LRMS. you get locked, you run for cover, the cover failes to cover you, and you die. Hence, game broken.

[El Bandito]

Ok, I'll try to dissect your comment in order to help you.

gamingogre, on 27 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

I am so sick of trying to play in group and finding only LRM groups. They are invincible.

No they are not. There is no such thing as an invincible loadout, be it in group, or pug.

gamingogre, on 27 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

I mostly play Ballistics; and from my point of view, things are way out of balance.

Actually ACs and Gauss still dominate, especially combined with lasers. Unless you mean those two are overpowered.

gamingogre, on 27 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

Just last round, I am in a cataphract. Full armor, i pop up to shoot and in that 2-3 second window I am locked for LRMs. I back up down the mountain and am out of sight from all enemies and no uav.

How do you know there was no spotter or UAV? There could be a Light locking you from afar or a UAV that is out of your sight range.

gamingogre, on 27 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

I keep backing up and getting hit by missiles; there is no narc or spotter. I die from these missiles that held lock for 12+ seconds. How do you hold a lock for so long?

Well someone clearly had you in his sights then. What the heck where you doing in those 12 seconds? I usually run and find high enough cover if I get hit by LRMs more than twice.

gamingogre, on 27 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

Unless this is a hack (which i doubt) Clan missiles and lock times have broken this game.

Clan missiles are very very annoying, but their strength is not at killing. You should have more than enough time to find cover, unless you were in Caustic or Alpine. IMO GECM locktime increase is more broken than anything I have seen so far.

gamingogre, on 27 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

I didn't have a single round hit 100+ damage all night in the group queue. Every time it's the same story. LRM lock on, I run to cover. Cover fails and I die.

Group or pug, cover stays the same. Memorize effective cover locations and hop through them. Military 101.

gamingogre, on 27 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

The weapons are meant to be like rock, paper, scissors. Yet in most of my mechs (the non-ECM ones) there is no check for LRMS. you get locked, you run for cover, the cover failes to cover you, and you die. Hence, game broken.

There are plenty of ECM mechs in game to allow 2-3 of them per match on average. There are plenty of checks for LRMs, just ask around. Especially in group matches, since you guys are supposed to be more organized. There are reasons why LRMs are the most useless weapon at competitive level. It is a case of learn and adapt.

Finally, buy the Radar Derp module and equip an AMS if you cannot use cover. Radar Derp is crazy good right now.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 August 2014 - 11:38 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

You are obviously not as good as you think if you believe your post.

[Turist0AT]

LRMs can be brutal. Try giving it more time (chill out) in cover before you pop out, to let your teams lrm boats do their work. You might be stressing it into battle.

Cataphract is my favorite chassie but it is very very fragile, especially if you keep looking at the enemy (like you have to do with 4X. kdr 3 XD).

Other than that, there are some module and stuff to ease up LRM rain but without ECM it can still be a bit tough, how tough depends on the map.

Edited by Turist0AT, 28 August 2014 - 01:06 AM.

[Wintersdark]

gamingogre, on 27 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

I am so sick of trying to play in group and finding only LRM groups. They are invincible.

LRM's are, while far better than they once where, still a generally weaker and unreliable weapon system over all. Unlike ballistics and energy weapons, there are multiple active and passive defenses.

Are you running AMS? If not, do. Is there ECM on your team? Stay close. Be aware of the angle of cover, make sure it can actually protect you from LRM's.

Quote

I mostly play Ballistics; and from my point of view, things are way out of balance. Just last round, I am in a cataphract. Full armor, i pop up to shoot and in that 2-3 second window I am locked for LRMs. I back up down the mountain and am out of sight from all enemies and no uav. I keep backing up and getting hit by missiles; there is no narc or spotter. I die from these missiles that held lock for 12+ seconds.

There must have been a spotter, UAV, or you where narc'ed. You have no way of knowing there's no spotter or UAV - its easy for them to be in places you cannot see. And unless you have a friend of voice confirming you're not NARCed, you don't know that either.

Quote

How do you hold a lock for so long? Unless this is a hack (which i doubt) Clan missiles and lock times have broken this game.

You do understand that Clan missiles are weaker than IS missiles right? They have the same flight speed and lock times, but many, MANY more clan LRM's are destroyed per AMS module than IS LRM's. Clan LRM's make up for doing ultimately less damage as a result by generating more extended screen shake (missiles keep impacting over time) and by being effectively weakass SSRM's in CQB.

But the do NOT hold locks longer or obtain them faster.

Quote

I didn't have a single round hit 100+ damage all night in the group queue. Every time it's the same story. LRM lock on, I run to cover. Cover fails and I die. The weapons are meant to be like rock, paper, scissors. Yet in most of my mechs (the non-ECM ones) there is no check for LRMS. you get locked, you run for cover, the cover failes to cover you, and you die. Hence, game broken.

AMS. Radar Deprivation module. If you're struggling with enemy LRM's, use both.

The problem isn't the weapon systems. The problem here is that you just need to learn to use cover more effectively, because you're clearly Doing It Wrong.

[Nauht]

Don't worry. If LRM's get out of control you can count on PGI to overnerf them again. Guaranteed.

[Voidcrafter]

I don't completely agree with the nature of this topic.
BUT...
I generally think that weapon, that's having as a really huge dependency on the map design to be effective is kinda wrong.
I still think that making it more direct fire weapon would cut all those argues and stuff.
And the fact that depends on the map design is just the tip of the top -
ECM - optional equipment that only 5 mechs(I believe? ) in the whole game have the option to bring in.
AMS - optional equipment that sole purpose of exsistence is to soften up LRM blows.
The answer is not "MUCH COUNTERS!! SUCH NO WORK!! WOW!", but more likely the question should be "Why do we need that much counter?".
For me the answer to the second one is --> the weapon is flawed.
It would either do wonders, or do nothing at all.
I don't call that balance - I call this boolsheets

I would personally use it more if the missiles are flying straight toward a target in my LOS, while doing more damage, and could've been fired on a target out of my LOS only when NARC-ed or/and TAG-ed.

[Kyle Wright]

As someone that hates Lrm spamming, I do have to say if people started running more AMS then it wouldn't be as bad. If we had a real battlemech and didn't know what we were facing beforehand I would run AMS. Couple AMS with AMS overload module and you will alleviate the anger. Sure it may take up tonnage but then so be it.

[Kjudoon]

Here are a few things I can see already. By correcting these things, you will increase your suitability dramatically

Your mech is too slow.
You are backing up in straight lines in the line of the missile fire allowing them to hit you anyway.
You're choosing bad cover or are walking too far away from it.
You're not watching your mini-map or surroundings.
You lack AMS, or think it's a forcefield
You don't have ECM nearby or recognize how to use it yet.
You need to understand that any enemy mech that sees you, has probably targeted you and allows the lock to sustain.

Seriously, LRMs are only a horror show to the unlucky and unskilled. I know because I run LRM mechs and they are my bread and butter. Although I hope you don't heed any of my points above, because it makes my job easier, it's just me being neighborly.

[Voidcrafter]

Kjudoon, on 28 August 2014 - 12:42 AM, said:

Here are a few things I can see already. By correcting these things, you will increase your suitability dramatically

Your mech is too slow.
You are backing up in straight lines in the line of the missile fire allowing them to hit you anyway.
You're choosing bad cover or are walking too far away from it.
You're not watching your mini-map or surroundings.
You lack AMS, or think it's a forcefield
You don't have ECM nearby or recognize how to use it yet.
You need to understand that any enemy mech that sees you, has probably targeted you and allows the lock to sustain.

Seriously, LRMs are only a horror show to the unlucky and unskilled. I know because I run LRM mechs and they are my bread and butter. Although I hope you don't heed any of my points above, because it makes my job easier, it's just me being neighborly.

Well I get killed by LRMs - if that means I'm unskilled we can try schedule some 1v1s if you insist - if that would've proove something.
As for the rest:
No one can force you to pick up mech that has ECM(not to mention you could not have any).
You should never, ever ,ever pick ECM mech just cause otherwise you're gonna get nuked to oblivion by LRMs - that by itself speaks enough about this whole convo.
No one can force to bring AMS and you shouldn't do so just to soak 5 LRMs per volley, while there's a quite decent chance that there either won't be any LRM boats, or if they are that they would rain over some targets around you.
Sometimes you DO understand that enemy ECM raven/spider/kitfox/all are seeing you, NARCing you, TAGing you, and there aint a thing you can do about it - not in time though - 3 LRM boats need about 5/6 seconds targeting time to completely kill an assault mech - since any not-brain-dead LRM boat is bringing adv. target decay module, which gets us to our next argument:
Radar derp.
Yet the next "SO MUST TO HAVE!! I NEEDS IT!!" module, that people try to proclaim it's a MUST.
Yea. It kinda is. And the very sole reason for that are LRMs again.

So looky looky - ECM, Target Derp. AMS, good cover, not get spotted and NARCed - all these stuff are needed because of a single friggin weapon that, if used well, has 0 risk chance(while you're firing at your target).
I'm not saying that I have issues with LRMs - yea, I get killed by them but so what?
I'm getting killed by all sorts of ACs, Lasers, SRMs and etc.

I am against people saying that you need sooo much should-be-optional sheet just to have defense against basic-aim-and-possitioning-low-skill-indirect-fire-weapon-that-you-can-fire-a-kilometer-away-at-your-target-without-seing-it-at-all?
People are getting killed by it.
And accept it finally - it's not ALWAYS their own mistakes.
I don't have a single ECM mech - what if all the players I drop together with are the same huh?
Will you say that I MUST buy ECM mech to not get killed by LRMs?
Don't you find that sooo sooooooo stupid?

Stop. Calling. People. Killed. By. LRMs. Low. Skill. Idiots.
OKAY?

[Zolaz]

Just out of curiosity, how many drops do you have? Would you tell someone who has as many wins and twice as many kills as you have drops that they dont know what they are talking about? If you are having problems with something, maybe you should listen to the people who arent having the same issue. Or you can just do the same thing you are doing now.

[kapusta11]

Solution: Create brawling group!

[Ihasa]

Wow third LRM QQ thread in ONE DAY, never mind the week. Suffice it to say, I don't find your topic new and/or exciting and I don't want to subscribe to your newsletter. I'm on enough LRM QQ mailing lists from this week alone (and it's only Wednesday).

[Thorqemada]

Well, a coordinated 6 man premade with Jager XII, dedicated Narcers will break any Queue as they would break the Queue too if they field their 90+ Alpha damage boats.

It was sad to see how low resistance the Premade Queue showed against the LRM rain - isnt this where the Pros play?

Thx Jager XII + Friends for trying to make LRM the almost useless weight they were for the longest time again and PGI for having no better solution for LRM gameplay.

Edited by Thorqemada, 28 August 2014 - 01:38 AM.

[-Natural Selection-]

If a car was coming straight at you from a mile away what do you do.. what do you do?

A. Turn around and run away till it runs out of gas

B. Stand there and hope it stops

C. Move to the left or right of its direction of travel


ANSWER: 2+2=purple

[drinniol]

On the topic of AMS - either the OP is right and there's an LRM-aggedon so it's worth taking each time every time, or everyone else is right and the LRMs are only useful for area denial and general annoyance and if you stick to cover you'll be fine for the most part unless you have been NARCed and are stuck in the open or a slow mech.

[Lily from animove]

Voidcrafter, on 28 August 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

I am against people saying that you need sooo much should-be-optional sheet just to have defense against basic-aim-and-possitioning-low-skill-indirect-fire-weapon-that-you-can-fire-a-kilometer-away-at-your-target-without-seing-it-at-all?
People are getting killed by it.
And accept it finally - it's not ALWAYS their own mistakes.
I don't have a single ECM mech - what if all the players I drop together with are the same huh?
Will you say that I MUST buy ECM mech to not get killed by LRMs?
Don't you find that sooo sooooooo stupid?

Stop. Calling. People. Killed. By. LRMs. Low. Skill. Idiots.
OKAY?

Knowing the map and Cover are the best LRM counters.
ECM helps a lot.
AMS too.

And since nearly any mech can use AMS, you should use AMS if you knwo there are many LRM's and if you do have a problem with LRM's

None of the mechs I use except the kitfox has AMS or ECM, and I am fine with LRM's on the opposite. So it is clearly a pilots problem when he has constantly issues with LRM's.

But calling people idiots, well some people will never lern to behave.

[Thorqemada]

When you be narced only Solid Cover helps or massed AMS - thing is that the LRM Boat can bring more Ammo than the AMS-Carrier and they will simply make the AMS run dry.

[El Bandito]

Voidcrafter, on 28 August 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

Stop. Calling. People. Killed. By. LRMs. Low. Skill. Idiots. OKAY?

Right, it is only when they make a QQ thread about it, we should call them idiots.

Thorqemada, on 28 August 2014 - 01:41 AM, said:

When you be narced only Solid Cover helps or massed AMS - thing is that the LRM Boat can bring more Ammo than the AMS-Carrier and they will simply make the AMS run dry.

If your team waits until the AMSs run dry without maneuvering at all, then something is wrong with your team.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 August 2014 - 01:43 AM.

[Voidcrafter]

El Bandito, on 28 August 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

Right, it is only when they make a QQ thread about it, we should call them idiots.

Naaah EB - it aint that simple...
From their own perception those people see this as an issue and that's their way to report it.
If there aint complaining about anything - there aint fixing for it.
Yea - there're tons of topics like these but you know - every forum suffers from that plague
Also - there are many factors that aint contributing for those threads extinction, few examples:
MM/ELO "works" that way, that you could have a veeeery, very long chain of games-in-a-row that end up with LRM annihilation in either direction.
The same for the line above - but ending with games without ECM/AMS, or ending in caustic.
Etc.

I don't defend those people as general - I defend humanity and stuff you know
Out of the game I assume anyone to not be idiot until he gives me quite solid proof for the contrary(yep. this aint solid enough).
In the game... for my own sake... well...
BUT! I don't share my thoughts about it with either team. And I DO try to help.