68 replies to this topic

[meteorol]

151 is getting creative with his whinethreads.

[Rando Slim]

Yep, but don't worry OP, people like us just suck, after all we are part of the "underhive" and we're just too stupid to avoid lrms, too bad at piloting and using all that abundant cover that's just literally teeming from every map. Gee if we could just crack the next ELO bracket......ah a breath of fresh air, no LRMS they say! Must be nice. I was in the group queue for probably 5 hours today, saw lots of recognizable above average or better people from recognizable teams and you know what? There wasn't a single match without significant amounts of lrms. Oh sure I was able to get away from some, do the whole zombie walk shutdown thing to throw them off, but that's he problem its NEVER just one lrm boat. I want to add that the whole clan lrm no minimum range thing is some straight up horse manure. WTF am I supposed to do when its time to charge and we don't have long rane firepower or no angle to shoot from long range or maybe they just have a lot of ECM and so we take the risk to close in and you still take 20 to the face from lrms because all those ******* T-Wolfs and Warhawks can carry 40-80 of them AND still have backup OP ER Mediums. 40 lrms at point blank still hurts. I don't think PGI gets that people boat them, they must think people actually use stock mechs or just use a single lrm 10.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 31 August 2014 - 10:14 PM.

[Voidcrafter]

Artgathan, on 31 August 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Fires 8 tons of munitions.

Does 500 damage.

"It's totally OP guys."

Fires 8 tons of ammo.

Does 1.1k+ damage(edit: without having an armor part goes more damaged than "yellow" and barely seeing any dude I'm shooting at)

Finishes off anything that haven't died with 4xCER/CP MEDLs..

Got saluted with "glad to have a competent boat on our team"

Repeats.

A disclaimer of irony:
I don't like LRMs at all neither I play that often with em, so the fact I was called "competent" is kinda scary
Indirect fire ftw.

Edited by Voidcrafter, 01 September 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[Rando Slim]

Yea all I know is, for something that has THREE direct and one indirect counter to it, and yet theres still so much whining about it, and people still abuse th **** out of it, should imply something shouldn't it? I dunno you people tell me.

[Wolfways]

Kilo 40, on 31 August 2014 - 08:26 PM, said:

you're...blaming yourself for making a mistake/bad judgment???

WHOA THERE MISTER! never ever acknowledge that you made a mistake, and learn from it! You're supposed to ask for a nerf of whatever killed you. you should know this.

Oh, sorry

It wasn't my fault. It was erm...ooh a light mech! I hate light mechs. PGI please nerf light mechs now!...all of them!

[Wolfways]

Scrotacus 42, on 31 August 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

Yea all I know is, for something that has THREE direct and one indirect counter to it, and yet theres still so much whining about it, and people still abuse th **** out of it, should imply something shouldn't it? I dunno you people tell me.

It implies that players will whine about anything that kills them instead of learning how to avoid it. The same happened with snipers in the Battlefield series.

[Rando Slim]

Well yes you have told me that before Wolfways, I have tried to listen. It just isn't as easy as you make it sound in the solo queue or apparently in the mid level group queues. I've searched the forums for tips, tried to employ them. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt help much. Myself and others don't QQ about it to read our own words, its cause theres ACTUALLY a bit of a problem. Sometimes in industry, life, gaming, whatever humans accidentally create imperfect systems that don't synergize well with other things. Lurms and arty are two examples. Its okay to admit that. Yes, most times, if left with no recourse for change,we must simply suck it up ad deal with imbalances and adapt, as you say we all should do. However, people here are under the impression that there is some way to influence or change undesirable systems. If that is truly naïve or not factual......then why does this subforum exist? Like your telling me that because I get killed by it, its obviously my fault and isn't actually a problem. But I mean arent you kind of making the same error of attribution by saying "because I and some other percentage of people find it easy to avoid its obviously not a problem"? Theres many situations where you cant avoid lrms whether its a bad map with no cover, or your whole stupid pug team leaves cover and you must choose to go with them out of cover or stay in cover and isolate yourself. Then theres all the times where your just busy fighting other stuff, you don't have the luxury of looking up, finding the lrms, pointing your legs perpendicular to the arc, and power down while running that way because theres a stupid T-Wolf pounding you in the face on open ground on Caustic valley or whatever (see I DO know how you dodge them). Anyway don't bite me head off.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 01 September 2014 - 12:01 AM.

[Voidcrafter]

Wolfways, on 31 August 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

It implies that players will whine about anything that kills them instead of learning how to avoid it. The same happened with snipers in the Battlefield series.

YOLO Wolfie.
On the base I ordinary agree with whatever you have to say, as I do now... partially.
The thing is the game is full with optional variables.
There are some of them that are making this and that really, really hard to achieve/avoid *sometimes*.
For example - when I dron on caustic with my LRM boats that I rarely play I am almost certain if we're not going to win that, at least, I'm gonna cause some nasty havoc over my enemies.
Same counts for the canyon map btw. As for Forest Colony. As for(most of the time) Tourmanline.
I don't fear LRMs - I brawl most of the time - that have tought me how dearly you pay for the mistakes you've made so I tend to do near to any, especially when it comes to get in the open, not chosing "proper" cover, etc. etc.

LRMs DO kill people.
ECM/AMS or not. I know it from my own experience.
I know how hard it is to pull out 700+ dmg as brawler and I know how easy it is to pull 800+ damage as a LRM "boat". To compare those two is a joke - in every single term I can think of
The game is way more optional toward any other build, in my opinion, than it is for the LRMing.
Tunnels or no tunnels, moons or buildings - if they don't hit you on the first indirect volley it would be the second. The third. The forth. As long as you're busy fighting the stuff you see you'll get fired at.
And in the moment you deciede that a bit of mobility would come handful - BAM(or more like bambambambambambam with so pleasant shaking).
As I've said many times - it should be more like of a direct weapon.
But all those are my own thoughts

[zortesh]

I dunno, its pretty easy to rack up 700 damage in a srm brawler, in the battles where using a brawler is atall viable, which is rare because most battles are two blobs of snipers exchanging fire at well past srm range, with a few lrm boats mixed in for variety.

Brawling is just impractical unless you have a whole team brawling, since otherwise you have to wait till the battle is effectively already over, hiding and avoiding damage till the enemy closes or it is safe to close... or.. well i dunno, its insane to attempt to close with a blob to use srms without the vast majority of your team support you, if its not a blob and the enemy is spread all over.. then its easy kills... but thats rare.

Lrms can be easy mode, sometimes, other times there by far the hardest weapon system to use, i mean racking up 700 damage inc a lrm boat in a game where there is 4+ ecm mechs and no narcers, uavs or tags is incredibly hard.. takes alot of blindfiring lrms, or lrm brawling if your a clanner.

Lrms are flatout inferior to ppfld weapons for a simple reason, your target can use there skill to avoid your shot after you've fired, lasser suffer this to a lesser extent, they can use there skill to mitigate damage after you've fired, with guass, or is autocannons or to a lesser extent ppcs thats impossible, if you aim correctly and fire you will do damage to whereever you aim, no amount of skill on your targets part will help them once they fire, you could torso twist, but in the case of guass unless you have an exceptional ping it will hit where it is aimed regardless.

lrms work well as you start, but get progressively worse as you climb the ladder, as a starter i remember i could just run a big lrm stalker, and kick ass, where im at now a lrm team without dedicated narcers will get stomped, and even with dedicated narcers, ecm cover and a organzied team victory is not remotely close to assured, and any equally organized sniper or brawler team is at a advantage, if they bring 3+ ecm mechs there at a huge advantage and if they lose they just flatout failed at playing competently, or the lrm team played incredibly well.

To be effective with lrms you need to find firing lines with no high cover, preferably with los cover you can hide behind, and the enemy has to fail at finding cover before your lrms hit, or alternatively you need to force/trick/cacth them into a situation where cover is not close by.

To be effective with lasers you need los, aiming, and to do effective damage force the enemy into a situation where they have to take full beam duration or close to it.

To be a effective ppfld sniper you need los, and the capability to aim, if you can aim just pop up, shoot, repeat.

[151st Light Horse Regiment]

meteorol, on 31 August 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

151 is getting creative with his whinethreads.

This one is actually genuine though.

[kesmai]

Dear 151st lhr, at first it appeared to me that this could be an attempt of reverse psychology, but I know how you, finding the most pleasant way to play this game, feel. It is the feeling of pure joy. The knowledge of superior, yet subtle, gaming mechanics leads to envy by other players. Do not let your period of absolute domination on the battlefield be tarnished by some badmouthed wannabe gung-ho self entitled elite mechjocks. just enjoy yourself.



And maybe try a kitfox with ecm 3erll range mod tcomp mk1 quite good at tickling the superior lrm race...

[Savage Wolf]

More damage per match does not necesarily mean more effective. You get high damage scores if you spread damage a lot and get lots of kill assists. But it's more effective to simply destroy the CT of the enemy. But you will have done less damage.

[Voidcrafter]

sneeking, on 01 September 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

I promote responsible use of lrm in balanced builds no spam no cheese.

Yea - that.
But the thing is they're too optional to be a valuable choice for that.
If they were more like a direct fire weapon with more damage to it, not so crippled by ECM, this was going to work more than fine.
Sadly they aint - people are taking them 100% of the time cause of their indirect way of use.
Even though I've gone face to face with a cheeZy Direwolf and wrecked his head with my CLRMs before it could crittically damage me.
But this is more like an exception - DWFs seems to have 0% LRMs dodge rate cause of their generally giant CT and size.

I dare to ask you something:
How many of you see putting a single LRM15/20 rack on your mech as a smart choice like this guy?
I doubt that they are that much.
Yet I wonder why is it so? Don't you?

[Iskareot]

Took my Kintaro .. loaded it with LRM5s, 2 mpls --- 1400 ammo -- ams... XL engine for speed and all I do is spam and win.. RED CIRCLE mode is so ******* easy its sad. I look forward to the nerf coming because no way can they leave the game this easy.

I DO NOT EVEN HAVE TO SEE THE ENEMY... nothing... I can hide all day behind a rock... just look for a target... no **** it has got to be the most easy thing to do ever.

In two years.. I can honestly say the LRM bandwagon is so sad and easy that its hard to go back to real fighthing for sure.

[Voidcrafter]

Iskareot, on 01 September 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

Took my Kintaro .. loaded it with LRM5s, 2 mpls --- 1400 ammo -- ams... XL engine for speed and all I do is spam and win.. RED CIRCLE mode is so ******* easy its sad. I look forward to the nerf coming because no way can they leave the game this easy.

I DO NOT EVEN HAVE TO SEE THE ENEMY... nothing... I can hide all day behind a rock... just look for a target... no **** it has got to be the most easy thing to do ever.

In two years.. I can honestly say the LRM bandwagon is so sad and easy that its hard to go back to real fighthing for sure.

Well when I mount LRMs I feel pretty much the same - with the difference that when I do it for fun I mount CLRM55+ Warhawk and 4xCMPL.
But hey - try reason with the rest of the guys always picturing how the "l33t" players always counter it.
"Yea. It's not dangerous at all. Only n00bs die from it. L2P. L2USECOVER. etc. etc. etc."
... "Ooh - and don't mind us bringing tons of AMS, at least 2 ECMs, always standing behind the hills, with our milions spent on Radar Derps. We're not doing it cause LRMs or something - oooh noooes - dat makes us cool! That's the only reason we're doing it! Honestly!"
Been there. Done that.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 August 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

That ain't brawling Lock Brawling is face to face duking it out. What you described is a Sneak attack.

Well it's not often but there's enough armor and a pair of MLs to throw down with any light I come across, and due to speed I'm usually one of the last ones left alive so I've had to deal with larger mechs face to face too. Won't last long vs the bigger ones but I gladly do it rather than be one of "those" guys who trolls around maps hiding and wasting everyone's time.

[Hamm3r]

Way back when I used to run a Cat-A1 with 6 LRM-5s and LOADS of ammo on chain fire. You could lay down a constant stream of LRMs down as long as you could maintain a lock. The way that LRMs are now I think is a bit OP and people know it. When you get three stream of 50+ missiles coming at you as soon as you move, that's a bit nuts IMO. If they can boat LRMs then I want heat spike from boating Lasers/ACs gone.

[PocketAces]

At 450 ping all I can play are LRM boats. Sadly direct fire just doesn't register, unless I fire my lasers 2cm away from target, then they hit. So screw it I'm a going LURM boat, thank you very much.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Wolfways, on 31 August 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

NARC doesn't magically make missiles go through cover. I was in a bad position because i was where i could be hit by LRM's.

Forcing you to stay behind cover has still removed you from the match while the rest of your homies get rolled. Indirect fire has more positives than simple damage. A viable solution for some is being aggressive while leapfrogging through cover. That gets you shot without multiple layers of ECM which sucks the fun out of matches in its own way. That's why position doesn't matter because the game has boiled down to 1 or 2 boring strats which balance each other, while stomping the dirt out of any shred of creativity other teams may employ. A great deal of it is due to (poor) map design which plagues any FPS given enough time for better players to memorize their routes. The other tho, is the mighty LRM and how powerful it is that it has negated most other avenues of variety. My personal solution would be to boost the hell out of AMS and make it worth taking, but players refuse to give up their stealth cloaks and the extra tonnage in firepower for ams ammo. That's why I find stock mondays very enjoyable because lrms are deadly, but the ammo placement and limited munition makes them a legitimate risk to use. In standard MWO it's just a LOLfest of packing your legs full of ammo and sitting behind your magic jesus box spamming with impunity. It's lazy, boring, and a thankless job for the spotters while the boat reaps all the bills.

[Gyrok]

Rhent, on 31 August 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

Atremis greatly speeds up your locking. If you have line of site on the target mech when your missiles hit you get a grouping bonus.

If you want to run a LRM boat, you have to look at the tubes you have. For a Stalker, if you want the biggest single fire volley that would require the 3H. The 3H allows 50 missiles to hit in one volley and you can care 1980 missiles with the chassis. You become a walking platform of death for your team.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5c1dbc927ea7fb5

Thank you for putting a standard engine in your stalker...I cannot tell you how many stalkers I have killed recently running XL engines. Everytime a mech that is all side torso pops after losing just 1 side torso, I feel like a part of me that cares for this game dies a little inside. The "Mech IQ" of some players is baffling. They just do not understand how a STD engine is a much better choice on some mechs. The Stalker being one of the most predominant choices where that is the case.

Edited by Gyrok, 01 September 2014 - 06:40 AM.