52 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

101011, on 01 September 2014 - 05:01 AM, said:

The subtleties of combat? I think you have your sides confused...ours is not the one with nuclear weapons.

Aff, this is true, yours is the side that uses the full firepower of a Battleship to melt and entire city , and 100,000s to millions of innocents over the "crime" of a few Yakuza not embracing your tyrannical regime.

But I am sure the residents of Edo, Turtle Bay, appreciate the distinction, quineg?

[Carrie Harder]

Merchant, on 01 September 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

pictures

Lol. I'll address these one at a time.


1. 187 damage + 7 assists is actually fairly bad performance, at least by my standards.

2. 267 damage + 10 assists is better, but still not "good." Very, very easy to get with just about any mech barring Lolcusts.

3. 234 damage + 1 kill + 6 assists is an okay match, but again it's not that unusual or impressive.

4. 102 damage + 5 assists is a pretty horrible performance.

5. 154 damage + 1 kill + 4 assists is just barely passable, only because you managed to snag a kill.

6. 349 damage + 3 kills + 4 assists was actually a good match, although still not all that out of the ordinary.


In summary, most of the screenshots you posted show sub-par to fairly bad match performances, excluding one or two of them. If you can't get scores well above that in any mech of either faction, the problem is sitting in the cockpit.

[R Razor]

As others have said.......you Clan folks can try to justify your success any way you choose, but it's the mechs along with the current rule setup and allows for most of it.

Clan Mechs should be superior to IS, no question about it, especially in 3049 - 3050.

Clan Mechs should NOT be dropping in equal numbers to IS mechs, at best it should be 10 V 12 (2 stars vs 3 lances) but more realistically, each Clan unit should have to BID the number of mechs they are dropping vs an IS company. (againt not anything this game is capable of supporting)

Early adopters of Clan technology (in this game) did in fact PAY TO WIN, even if only for a short period of time until the C-Bill variants were / are released. You can defend your purchase all you want, but the rules of MWO Online provide for a CLEAR advantage to Clan tech with absolutely NONE of the mitigating factors imposed that were utilized in Table Top in an (admittedly) unsuccessful attempt to balance them vs the IS.

Once the T-Wolf hits for C-Bills and the next swing of Paul's Nerf Bat hits home, you'll see a difference, but doubtfully before that time.

[101011]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 September 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Aff, this is true, yours is the side that uses the full firepower of a Battleship to melt and entire city , and 100,000s to millions of innocents over the "crime" of a few Yakuza not embracing your tyrannical regime.

But I am sure the residents of Edo, Turtle Bay, appreciate the distinction, quineg?

Smoke Jaguars are not representative of the whole of Clan society (you will notice they were Annihilated?). If you want to begin listing off war atrocities, I am fairly certain that the IS will have quite a bit more than the Clans (Tintavel, Kentares, etc.).

As for the OP's damage...well, if you consider 350 damage to be "cheesy" then I am not sure you are qualified to speak to the abilities of the Kit Fox.

Edited by 101011, 01 September 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

101011, on 01 September 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

Smoke Jaguars are not representative of the whole of Clan society (you will notice they were Annihilated?). If you want to begin listing off war atrocities, I am fairly certain that the IS will have quite a bit more than the Clans (Tintavel, Kentares, etc.).

and if your way was truly so superior, and your Zell so precious, would you not test your "more skilled and superior" warriors against the Inner Sphere in equal technology? You use the crutch of advanced technology, yet expect your "inferior" opponents to handicap themselves to fight by your rules, using outdated tech, too?

If you wish to validate the legitimacy of your "superiority" and thus right to enlighten we Inner Sphere Barbarians, open up your Brian Caches, and equip your warriors with the tools your Freebirth Ancestors used.

You claim superiority, yet insist on bringing a Submachine Gun to a duel in which your Opponent has a flintlock pistol. Truly skilled and honorable opponents would meet on equal footing.

Run back to your steel nipples and suckle VatBrat, your kind, your rule, is not wanted here.

(please do not leg me boss, I'm in character..... you know my other acct is ready to linerate and enlighten these IS barbarians! )

[Y E O N N E]

101011, on 01 September 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

Ah, yes, Clan Ghost Bear brutalized it's conquests so much they agreed to merge with us.

Clan Ghost Bear is violent by affiliation and has the same "join us or be destroyed" mentality as the rest, regardless of whether or not you are "nice" about it. You are also still test-tube derived pseudo-humans.

That being said, Ghost Bear is rather an exception and the fact that the rest of your kinsmen are so hostile to you and your softer ways, and that Ghost Bear was quick adopt more Inner Sphere style values, proves my point for me.

Quote

Our entire culture revolves around doing as much with as little as possible. It is not our fault that you blew yourselves back to the stone age (something which clearly never happened in the Clans), thus granting us the superior technology. Gate-crasher strategy? The element of surprise is best exploited with swift and superior force when least expected, quiaff?
Our Trials of Annihilation are not carried out with nuclear force, simply a swift military action when appropriate. I suggest you read page 14 of Era Digest - Golden Era, detailing the rules of the Trial of Annihilation. "If the Accused is a warrior or warriors, forces are sent to kill them. If the Accused can defend themselves and defeat those sent against them, then they are vindicated."[/color]

The Clans as we know them today were founded on tainted ground by that savage brute Nicholas Kerensky. He did not hesitate to employ revolting tactics on his own people and, when he threatened to destroy the only Clan with the moral fortitude to be disturbed by this, they were forced into using nuclear weapons out of desperation. Nuclear weapons which, I might add, did not even incur any civilian casualties. So really, what was the point of that annihilation other than to sate the insecurities of a power-mad ego-maniac?

Clans also don't do surprise attacks; they show up and give the batchall. Even if the Inner Sphere replies with a like-sized force and displacement, the Clans drop right in front of them and cruise through with that superior equipment. That is not subtle, that is not nuanced. That is what gate-crashing is. And in the Clans' case, it's not even honorable because you knew that is exactly what would happen. It's no wonder we stopped returning and even started abusing your batchalls; you dishonored its spirit with failure to address the technological disparity.

And being material efficient? Clans don't know the meaning of the concept. Perhaps they once did, but that was two hundred or so years ago. Tell me, is it more efficient to diplomatically negotiate an agreement between parties or to send troops at each other to fight it out? Killing and destroying to get what you want when words and exchange of goods or services could suffice is very wasteful. Your "rule of the strong" ideology has lead to much waste, because it breeds excessive competition to the point of being unable to work together. Each Clan is always trying to get a leg up on the other, rather than working together to restore order per Alexander Kerensky's dream.

The Clans are evil, vile, disgusting mockeries of what they were originally meant to represent, an insult to the memory of Alexander Kerensky. Salvation for the Inner Sphere? You can't even stop fighting among yourselves, so ultimately where's the moral high ground from which you claim dominion over us? What gave you the right to invade, butcher, and otherwise interfere if the result is no better than what we were already doing to ourselves? Face it: it was a resource grab, plain and simple.

Get the hell out of our galaxy!

[KuroNyra]

Yeonne Greene, on 01 September 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Get the hell out of our galaxy!

But... But we brought Muffins and Cookies! :'(

[Scratx]

Ah, I think that Cheese Fox build is mine.

But, alas, you are still a Padawan. You must practice more, so you can show everyone how the Cute Fox is truly mighty.

http://postimg.org/image/6fx1efk9d/

(barring having gotten the wrong screenshot)

[101011]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 September 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

and if your way was truly so superior, and your Zell so precious, would you not test your "more skilled and superior" warriors against the Inner Sphere in equal technology? You use the crutch of advanced technology, yet expect your "inferior" opponents to handicap themselves to fight by your rules, using outdated tech, too?

If you wish to validate the legitimacy of your "superiority" and thus right to enlighten we Inner Sphere Barbarians, open up your Brian Caches, and equip your warriors with the tools your Freebirth Ancestors used.

You claim superiority, yet insist on bringing a Submachine Gun to a duel in which your Opponent has a flintlock pistol. Truly skilled and honorable opponents would meet on equal footing.

Run back to your steel nipples and suckle VatBrat, your kind, your rule, is not wanted here.

(please do not leg me boss, I'm in character..... you know my other acct is ready to linerate and enlighten these IS barbarians! )

We fight not to enlighten the barbarians, but to capture the glorious jewel of Terra. The Spheroids are lacking in honor, scheming and conniving at every opportunity to better their own insignificant lives. They would just as soon bring twelve allies to a gentleman's duel as they would slip poison in your drink. Look at Kai Allard Liao, and his version of "honor". He destroyed his enemy through lies and deceit, not through skill. To stoop to your level would be like a great hawk refusing to fly in pursuit of a shrew.

Yeonne Greene, on 01 September 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

The Clans as we know them today were founded on tainted ground by that savage brute Nicholas Kerensky. He did not hesitate to employ revolting tactics on his own people and, when he threatened to destroy the only Clan with the moral fortitude to be disturbed by this, they were forced into using nuclear weapons out of desperation. Nuclear weapons which, I might add, did not even incur any civilian casualties. So really, what was the point of that annihilation other than to sate the insecurities of a power-mad ego-maniac?

The point was that the not-named Clan attacked, without warning, the Snow Raven repository. I would not expect a Spheroid to know the severity of such a thing, but rest assured, the reaction was just. In addition, they were advocating against the Clans. They were a cancer which had to be removed, and so they were.

Quote

Clans also don't do surprise attacks; they show up and give the batchall. Even if the Inner Sphere replies with a like-sized force and displacement, the Clans drop right in front of them and cruise through with that superior equipment. That is not subtle, that is not nuanced. That is what gate-crashing is. And in the Clans' case, it's not even honorable because you knew that is exactly what would happen. It's no wonder we stopped returning and even started abusing your batchalls; you dishonored its spirit with failure to address the technological disparity.

First, the Clan Invasion as a whole was indeed a surprise attack, unless you are suggesting that you had prior knowledge? It is not enough for us to defeat you, but we have to defeat you in an artistic and wasteful manner as well? Why spend months planning and positioning when in the same amount of time we could have easily won? Again, you will gain no empathy from us for your sorry state of technology. We certainly had no part in the wars which reduced your capabilities to rubble.

Quote

And being material efficient? Clans don't know the meaning of the concept. Perhaps they once did, but that was two hundred or so years ago. Tell me, is it more efficient to diplomatically negotiate an agreement between parties or to send troops at each other to fight it out? Killing and destroying to get what you want when words and exchange of goods or services could suffice is very wasteful. Your "rule of the strong" ideology has lead to much waste, because it breeds excessive competition to the point of being unable to work together. Each Clan is always trying to get a leg up on the other, rather than working together to restore order per Alexander Kerensky's dream.

The Clans are evil, vile, disgusting mockeries of what they were originally meant to represent, an insult to the memory of Alexander Kerensky. Salvation for the Inner Sphere? You can't even stop fighting among yourselves, so ultimately where's the moral high ground from which you claim dominion over us? What gave you the right to invade, butcher, and otherwise interfere if the result is no better than what we were already doing to ourselves? Face it: it was a resource grab, plain and simple.

Get the hell out of our galaxy!

There is no negotiating with the weak. You had your chance. Now it is our turn.

Edited by 101011, 01 September 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

If that is why you fight, then you have lost sight of the reason you exist at all and should be put out of your misery before your cancer spreads further.

Poison in a drink to destroy one's enemy is also far more efficient than the loss of equipment and excess personnel to clear a conflict, don't you think? Hypocrisy at its finest!

[Bishop Steiner]

101011, on 01 September 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

We fight not to enlighten the barbarians, but to capture the glorious jewel of Terra. The Spheroids are lacking in honor, scheming and conniving at every opportunity to better their own insignificant lives. They would just as soon bring twelve allies to a gentleman's duel as they would slip poison in your drink. Look at Kai Allard Liao, and his version of "honor". He destroyed his enemy through lies and deceit, not through skill. To stoop to your level would be like a great hawk refusing to fly in pursuit of a shrew.

Yeonne Greene, on 01 September 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

If that is why you fight, then you have lost sight of the reason you exist at all and should be put out of your misery before your cancer spreads further.

Poison in a drink to destroy one's enemy is also far more efficient than the loss of equipment and excess personnel to clear a conflict, don't you think? Hypocrisy at its finest!

Agreed. True honor is to remove the tyrants at the top that force the masses to die for their "vision".

How many Atrocities did the "Great Father" have on his own hands, both pre and post Exodus? Prinz Eugen, anyone? And his batcrap insane Mongol wannabe son, lil Nicky? Who forced the Wolverines hand with his madness and powermongering? To the point, I believe it was the Ghost Bears who looked the other way when the survivors slipped past?

Apparently, their memory and reasoning is as selective as they claim their breeding to be.

[101011]

Yeonne Greene, on 01 September 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

If that is why you fight, then you have lost sight of the reason you exist at all and should be put out of your misery before your cancer spreads further.

Poison in a drink to destroy one's enemy is also far more efficient than the loss of equipment and excess personnel to clear a conflict, don't you think? Hypocrisy at its finest!

Our cancer did not cause centuries of war and infighting. By your standards, it would be most efficient to the Clan cause to use orbital weaponry and simply obliterate all resistance below.

Bishop Steiner, on 01 September 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Agreed. True honor is to remove the tyrants at the top that force the masses to die for their "vision".

How many Atrocities did the "Great Father" have on his own hands, both pre and post Exodus? Prinz Eugen, anyone? And his batcrap insane Mongol wannabe son, lil Nicky? Who forced the Wolverines hand with his madness and powermongering? To the point, I believe it was the Ghost Bears who looked the other way when the survivors slipped past?

Apparently, their memory and reasoning is as selective as they claim their breeding to be.

Last I checked, I was not being forced to invade the Sphere. Our Great Father was justified in all his actions, as was Nicholas Kerensky. Those who rose up were quelled, as they deserved. Wolverine sought to sow discord amongst the Clans, and was punished for doing so.

[Y E O N N E]

101011, on 01 September 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

The point was that the not-named Clan attacked, without warning, the Snow Raven repository. I would not expect a Spheroid to know the severity of such a thing, but rest assured, the reaction was just. In addition, they were advocating against the Clans. They were a cancer which had to be removed, and so they were.

They were advocating against the ideas set forth by Nicholas the Abhorrent and were retaliating against the unjust allocation of resources that were historically theirs to a Clan that was aligned with his misguided, power-mad views.The cancer was Nicholas, and you allowed it to metastasize willingly.

And the attack was not without warning. The Not-Named-Clan was engaged in active hostilities and had driven the Snow Ravens back to their capital. How else do you finish off an enemy unwilling to surrender except by destroying his ability to rebuild and threaten you?

Quote

First, the Clan Invasion as a whole was indeed a surprise attack, unless you are suggesting that you had prior knowledge? It is not enough for us to defeat you, but we have to defeat you in an artistic and wasteful manner as well? Why spend months planning and positioning when in the same amount of time we could have easily won? Again, you will gain no empathy from us for your sorry state of technology. We certainly had no part in the wars which reduced your capabilities to rubble.

The invasion was a surprise. The individual battles were not, at least not to the defenders. A surprise attack is not much of a surprise if you tell your enemy your displacement and then demand they fight with equal numbers.

101011, on 01 September 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Our cancer did not cause centuries of war and infighting. By your standards, it would be most efficient to the Clan cause to use orbital weaponry and simply obliterate all resistance below.

Could have fooled me, what with all those centuries of Trials of Possession, Refusal, Annihilation, so on and so forth. Everything you do revolves around killing one another. Proportionally, your violence is the same as ours, you just have less to do it with. And leaving the wealth of the Inner Sphere behind was your choice, you have no right to get back what you willingly left behind.

And yes, that would be more efficient. Much more efficient. Alternatively, you could just leave when a world is not receptive to your rule. But no, you have to have your glory and prove your strength, you brute. Strength is nothing without compassion, and by barging in and slaughtering people to set your rule you show your lack of compassion.

Quote

Last I checked, I was not being forced to invade the Sphere. Our Great Father was justified in all his actions, as was Nicholas Kerensky. Those who rose up were quelled, as they deserved. Wolverine sought to sow discord amongst the Clans, and was punished for doing so.

But you did, and you forgot why you did. Your Great Father wanted to reunite humanity and create a better life for us upon his return. All you bring is death and a way of life that breeds a state of perpetual war, glorifying combat to the extent that murder is the equivalent of a hand-shake.

That's no better than what we have now.

Quote

There is no negotiating with the weak. You had your chance. Now it is our turn.

And you lost at Tukkayid. Game. Set. Match. Weakling.

Your only honorable recourse now is self-destruction after such a statement. Die for your shame.

[CN9 ACE PILOT]

KraftySOT, on 01 September 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

This **** is so pointless its almost vindictive.

There is nothing in this game that ties it to the lore. Nothing. This was a pointless comment. Are the clans having to follow their warrior code? Are the armor values the same? Are there planets changing hands? Is there production? Is there even a strategic map? Even the weapon values are different and "balanced".

Youre an idiot.

And for what its worth.

Who cares.

This game has so little to do with whats "expected" from a Mechwarrior game, that theres no point discussing what "should be" but only what can be done within the rules we already have, which is to be Red vs Blue...not, technologically deficient scoundrels, vs honor driven technologically superior enemies.

They should just make them both use the same weapons. Besides cosmetic changes, theres no reason for clan stuff to be better.

[Bishop Steiner]

101011, on 01 September 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Our cancer did not cause centuries of war and infighting. By your standards, it would be most efficient to the Clan cause to use orbital weaponry and simply obliterate all resistance below.



Last I checked, I was not being forced to invade the Sphere. Our Great Father was justified in all his actions, as was Nicholas Kerensky. Those who rose up were quelled, as they deserved. Wolverine sought to sow discord amongst the Clans, and was punished for doing so.

can I get you an explosive vest, whilst you are at it?

[Bishop Steiner]

101011, on 01 September 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Our cancer did not cause centuries of war and infighting. By your standards, it would be most efficient to the Clan cause to use orbital weaponry and simply obliterate all resistance below.

You are correct. You're cancer did not.


The Founder's cowardice, when faced with the opposition of the Petty Tyranny of the CounciL Lords, did. He had the power, he had the edict and he had the support to quell the fighting in a decisive campaign. He chose to turn tail and run, abandoning the Inner Sphere to the machinations of petty House Lords.

And then, delicious Irony of it all, have his own followers rebel not once, but twice, and perished using scorched earth draconian tactics on his own people, only to have his nutbar Son rise up and enforce a tranny unmatched on the masses of the Clan People, with petty warrior lords, holding sway over the masses, with their silly animal totems and justifications as thin and laughable as their source was unoriginal.

Nicholas Kerensky was a mad dog, and the only sad note to his being killed is it did not happen soon enough to stop his madness from infecting the rest of the remaining Exodus. Your founders were no less insane than Toyama or Waterly or Thomas Marik.

Come at us, and feel the fist of Steiner justice.

[101011]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 September 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

You are correct. You're cancer did not.


The Founder's cowardice, when faced with the opposition of the Petty Tyranny of the CounciL Lords, did. He had the power, he had the edict and he had the support to quell the fighting in a decisive campaign. He chose to turn tail and run, abandoning the Inner Sphere to the machinations of petty House Lords.

And then, delicious Irony of it all, have his own followers rebel not once, but twice, and perished using scorched earth draconian tactics on his own people, only to have his nutbar Son rise up and enforce a tranny unmatched on the masses of the Clan People, with petty warrior lords, holding sway over the masses, with their silly animal totems and justifications as thin and laughable as their source was unoriginal.

Nicholas Kerensky was a mad dog, and the only sad note to his being killed is it did not happen soon enough to stop his madness from infecting the rest of the remaining Exodus. Your founders were no less insane than Toyama or Waterly or Thomas Marik.

Come at us, and feel the fist of Steiner justice.

You accuse him of being draconian and then accuse him of being too weak to fight the Council Lords? The only way to quell the squabbling would be to dissolve the council and back a single Lord, removing the democracy anyways. He did not use scorched earth against those who rebelled, either, simply removed the insurrectionists, just as on ancient Terra in the days of naval empires, where mutineers would be executed. Is that insanity? He had only two options: ignore the dissenters and risk losing his whole fleet, or excise them.

[Voidcrafter]

*Sees images ~~> gets excited!*













































This is from my gallery called "Brawler4life" - it pretty much says all you need to know.
Got some other, better, shynier, even in my good old IS mechs - don't feel a difference.
I get killed a lot, I kill(a lot sometimes).
That's the rules, they never changed, not since I've started the game.
Whatever reasons the people find against the clan mechs, whatever the DEVs decide to do - after all the sheet - I'll still gonna be there, killing people that have one excuse less for being killed.

Edited by Voidcrafter, 01 September 2014 - 02:23 PM.

[Fut]

Onmyoudo, on 01 September 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

If you've never gotten 5 - 8 assists and more than 180 damage with IS mechs, or any mechs, you've not been playing right.

This pretty much kills the OP's entire argument.

[Mcgral18]

Is the WubFox cheese? It doesn't even have the Magic Jesus Box.

It likes long walks on the beach (note the time) and whale watching.