27 replies to this topic

[Gummiboot]

I have been off for like 3 months because the game went dull and just reopened an old alt account I had made few runs (the accounts ELO should be still somewhat noobish but I had mastered some chassis on the other account). Well what can I say, my team won only one game and all games, even that one I won was stomp (best 3-12).
Noobs are still thrown in groups against premades or vets, the maps still look the same, no new game modes, no new maps (yes I know new one coming soon...), but I can buy new mechs yay... why did I even give it a try

[LauLiao]

So... YOU haven't played in 3 months, but somehow it's your team or MM's fault?

[n r g]

Kleine Maus, on 03 September 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

I have been off for like 3 months because the game went dull and just reopened an old alt account I had made few runs (the accounts ELO should be still somewhat noobish but I had mastered some chassis on the other account). Well what can I say, my team won only one game and all games, even that one I won was stomp (best 3-12).
Noobs are still thrown in groups against premades or vets, the maps still look the same, no new game modes, no new maps (yes I know new one coming soon...), but I can buy new mechs yay... why did I even give it a try

Well, a lot has changed actually. Lobbies weren't even around 3 months ago, they nerfed alot of weapons, new CW modules, new ELO/que.

[Egomane]

This thread was moved previously to GD as the OP did not show up as a recruit account and the topic is not really one to help new players.

I moved it back, for now, so that the OP can particiapte in the thread. I will move it once again to GD as soon as the OP completes his 25 matches to gain full access to the forums.

[IraqiWalker]

Kleine Maus, on 03 September 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

I have been off for like 3 months because the game went dull and just reopened an old alt account I had made few runs (the accounts ELO should be still somewhat noobish but I had mastered some chassis on the other account). Well what can I say, my team won only one game and all games, even that one I won was stomp (best 3-12).
Noobs are still thrown in groups against premades or vets, the maps still look the same, no new game modes, no new maps (yes I know new one coming soon...), but I can buy new mechs yay... why did I even give it a try

I know OP can't respond to this (Recruit Status)

However. The MM doesn't put solo drops against premades anymore, it hasn't done that for 2 months now.

Also, you haven't played in a while. I'd say you're definitely be a factor in the results. I'm not denying that there are all kinds of people playing this game, but there is no way you stopped playing for three months, have no idea what the last 5 patches did, how the meta shifted, and still expect to be a top notch player.

Egomane, on 04 September 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

This thread was moved previously to GD as the OP did not show up as a recruit account and the topic is not really one to help new players.

I moved it back, for now, so that the OP can particiapte in the thread. I will move it once again to GD as soon as the OP completes his 25 matches to gain full access to the forums.

Thank you Egomane, that is very thoughtful of you.

[Gummiboot]

I said, it have been stomps, not that I lost all games. The worst game was 1-12 and my team won this, the other games went better upt to 3-12 and on some of them I even made 2 kills out of 3.
You can't claim, that single players are the cause for whole teams to lose even if you do it again and again after this has been discussed in the forums for years now, that in a team match single player skills do not count as much as teamplay. It can not be all games I played been total rect. But I know that people will repeat that just because they have nothing better to say and reply disproven facts just to say something.
And when you claim that noobs are not thrown into premades I wonder why the other team runs like pro, organizing ambush while my team loses three lights at the beginning because they engage headless into a bunch of heavies and I am with a default ELO put in alpha lance.

What I want to point on here is, that this games makes it frustrating for noobs and even when I have some experience here, played all chassis at least once, have mastered all the variants I like most, I only see uneven teams here.

PS: Thank you for letting me reply.

Edited by Kleine Maus, 04 September 2014 - 03:10 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Kleine Maus, on 04 September 2014 - 03:06 AM, said:

I said, it have been stomps, not that I lost all games. The worst game was 1-12 and my team won this, the other games went better upt to 3-12 and on some of them I even made 2 kills out of 3.
You can't claim, that single players are the cause for whole teams to lose even if you do it again and again after this has been discussed in the forums for years now, that in a team match single player skills do not count as much as teamplay. It can not be all games I played been total rect. But I know that people will repeat that just because they have nothing better to say and reply disproven facts just to say something.
And when you claim that noobs are not thrown into premades I wonder why the other team runs like pro, organizing ambush while my team loses three lights at the beginning because they engage headless into a bunch of heavies and I am with a default ELO put in alpha lance.

What I want to point on here is, that this games makes it frustrating for noobs and even when I have some experience here, played all chassis at least once, have mastered all the variants I like most, I only see uneven teams here.

PS: Thank you for letting me reply.

Look. I've been playing this game for a long time now.

Single players can't make their team win that well, but they can easily cause a loss. Also, with the no respawn system we have in this game, the team that gets a 3-4 mech lead early on, is not only going to win unless something drastic happens, they are not likely to lose mechs, as their firepower grows exponentially with every mech they down.

You might not like it or understand it. However, the fact remains that a single bad player has a bigger impact on the team's morale, and tactics, than a good player does.

The MM is actually pretty close on some aspects (it still has some jarring flaws), but even teams have a decent chance agains teach other. What it boils down to, is which team makes the fewest mistakes, since solo drops are usually a big c***shoot. Also, specialized loadouts tend to screw over the team more than general purpose ones. Since being on the wrong map, with the wrong loadout (very likely to happen, considering our map selection), means your mech is going to be out of the fight for the most part. (specialized loadouts are each good on a couple of maps, and bad on the rest.)



It also seems that you don't know about the last tweaks to the match maker,(seriously, go read the patch notes to catch up, on a LOT of changes). These include, but not limited to the following:

1- Groups CANNOT enter into solo queue.

2- There are are NO PREMADES in solo queue.

3- The MM matches each team by team average Elo. Meaning a team with 4 good players, and 8 bad players, can match up
against a team of 12 average players.

4- Group queue is much harsher now, since groups go from 2+. So expect to run into 10 mans when in group queue.

What you are claiming has been dis-proven, has actually been proven as well. It's not facts, so much as warped perspective. How many matches have you played since your return? 500? 400? That's barely a sample size.

Don't think I'm standing here saying that I don't get any losing streaks, or that it's all in your head. Nope, there's a lot of stupid in all the queues, and it can be very frustrating. I've had nights where out of 12 matches, I got 2 wins. However, I can always tell you exactly where the losses happened, and why.

90% of the time, they happen because there is no coordination. For the record. There is almost NONE in the solo queue. Anyone that argues otherwise is sorely mistaken. We always talk about the games when the team coordinated on chat, and it was awesome, but that's because they are so rare and far in between. Saying it's 1 in 20 is not an understatement. It's probably even rarer than that.

The team that gets ANY semblance of coordination, or a lucky kill or two early on, due to a bad play on the enemy team, will almost always wins, unless something drastic is done quickly.

[Darwins Dog]

The solo queue has a lot of variables that no MM can take into account. For one thing you were in the newbie pool, so you are being matched against and/or with players that are still figuring out the game. Then you have veteran players making alt accounts. Some do it for easy wins, some for stock mech mondays, some just like starting out with nothing (that's why I have mine). So right from the start your Elo rating doesn't match your skill level. Then you have Newbies playing on veteran accounts (trying out the game, letting a son or daughter play, etc.), you've got drunks, stoners, players that should have gone to bed an hour ago, people that just don't care to play well, and that kid who has to take out the trash in the middle of the match. The lower you are in the Elo bracket the more variable it becomes. Higher Elo brackets tend to have players that are a bit more focused and/or skillful (but it's still not a guarantee). My point is that the MM uses Elo, but that doesn't even come close to covering

According to PGI, there should not be any groups in the same queue as solo players. At the same time, all it takes is one person to type out a plan, and a few people to follow it and you have a coordinated team. It is possible that some of them were sync dropping and on TS, but that doesn't seem to be very common from my experience.

[IraqiWalker]

Darwins Dog, on 04 September 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

It is possible that some of them were sync dropping and on TS, but that doesn't seem to be very common from my experience.

Sync dropping has a very high chance of failure the more players are trying it (since this is solo queue), and of the ones that succeed, it has a 50% chance of putting the players on opposite teams.

[Ghillie Dhu]

Of course there has been some changes ... discos are up ... but you can re-join ....

[BigFatGator]

IraqiWalker, on 04 September 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

3- The MM matches each team by team average Elo. Meaning a team with 4 good players, and 8 bad players, can match up
against a team of 12 average players.

Has PGI confirmed the second sentence there? Thought matchmaker tried to match overall team Elo and also minimize the deviation of the Elo from individuals on each team so that they are all fairly close... although new players or mech classes to a player wind up with a mid-Elo rather than a bottom Elo to start.

[The Basilisk]

While you are right when you say this game moves still on baby steps, but it does move indeed.
Sometimes backwards, sometimes forward.
Sadly its still a fact PGI neither has the knowledge nor the personal ressources to bring major content Updates regarding gameplay, metagame, or even just maps, weapons and chassis in a pace one is used from most other games claiming to be at release state.

If you want to see major changes come back in a year and you may find changes one would have expected 1.5 years ago. ( major CW content additions, maybe even missions and one or two maps. )

Regarding your issiues with the match maker, yea its somewhat luck to get a usefull group atm.
Since MM is still balancing just pilots and mech classes, the composition in grade of mech mastery and equipment on the mechs may play a major role in the chances of succes of you team.

You can have 3 Assault missle boats without usefull SR weapons, 3 Dragons, 3 Cicadas and 3 Locusts and the matchmaker will think he has done well when there are 2 Dires and a DDC, acompanied by a pair of thimbers and some harrasser and ecm carriers on the other side.
Your Team will last 3 minutes and will be obliterated without making more than 500dmg all mechs together.
This is exaggerated but the point is most stomps are caused by combination of certain chassis and loadouts. Not by groups and piloting skill.

[IraqiWalker]

BigFatGator, on 04 September 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

Has PGI confirmed the second sentence there? Thought matchmaker tried to match overall team Elo and also minimize the deviation of the Elo from individuals on each team so that they are all fairly close... although new players or mech classes to a player wind up with a mid-Elo rather than a bottom Elo to start.

Overall team Elo matching is the same as average team Elo matching (a team with 15000 Elo points, still has an average of 15000/12=1250 average Elo. You can't get 1250 average Elo, unless the team score is a total of 15000).

[Redshift2k5]

Kleine Maus, on 03 September 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

I have been off for like 3 months because the game went dull and just reopened an old alt account I had made few runs (the accounts ELO should be still somewhat noobish but I had mastered some chassis on the other account). Well what can I say, my team won only one game and all games, even that one I won was stomp (best 3-12).
Noobs are still thrown in groups against premades or vets, the maps still look the same, no new game modes, no new maps (yes I know new one coming soon...), but I can buy new mechs yay... why did I even give it a try

Solo players are never thrown against groups/premades, unless you are yourself in a group in which case, yes, group vs group, even noob premades don't get to farm pugs anymore.

[Koniving]

There's been a few changes.

PPCs have been nerfed to the point that you almost never see them on the field, except in the form of ER PPCs in the hands of easily killed Timber Wolves (shoot the legs).

ER Large Lasers are all but extinct on Clan mechs.

Clan mechs in general have been nerfed to the point that the IS is significantly overpowered in terms of burst damage when the IS pilot knows what he or she is doing (but this has been true before the most recent and the upcoming nerfs). A Clan pilot can only make up for it if the fight drags on longer than 6 seconds. Which in a recent group fight, 3 Jagermechs came out with 10 anti-Clan kills with 1 IS kill and a match that was down to the last enemy in less than 3 minutes. (Twin AC/40s). Each had less than 300 damage to their name and most of that was the IS mech lost 5 limbs before it died. (In other words all headshots, Clan mechs have giant cockpits!)

We have a faction map with a Star Control-esque star system. (If you're familiar with the first game, that's the strong suspicion I have for how merc unit logistics will work. Move here. Build Garrison to prevent enemy from moving here or to delay their attack. Mine here. Build base there. Two dropships on the same planet? Contested! Bidding war!)

We have a new gameplay map that wasn't quite ready for actual play so it's likely going through some QA passes and changes.

We have faction association. It means very little right now but we have it.

We have a new match maker that tries to set up 3x4 but the release valves to make quick match making defeats the purpose.

There's now separate Group Only and Solo Only queues. If you were playing by yourself you played entirely against pugs with pugs. No one to carry you but yourself.

That's actually quite a bit compared to the 3 months before your 3 month absence. Huh. It's a start anyway.

[Revis Volek]

IraqiWalker, on 04 September 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

I know OP can't respond to this (Recruit Status)

However. The MM doesn't put solo drops against premades anymore, it hasn't done that for 2 months now.

While no SOLO vs GROUP still very new or GREEN players against elites happens often. Just last night when I was in a SOLO match I played with a gentlemen (leave his name out) who claimed he was new and wanted to know how to target a mech. We (team) told him that plus a few others pointers. Then i asked "How long have you been playing?" His reply "3 weeks".

REALLY?!?! I have been playing RELIGIOUSLY since March and the talk of clan mechs came about. I am not a TOP guys but I know where i stand in the ELO pool for the most part and it is not the Kiddie end. This poor guy got hosed in about 2 mins and did stay to watch the rest of the match and ask a few questions. But the point still stands....even if he had just finished his Cadet Bonus he should not be in even the middle ELO's until 200 matches or so. Poor guy was having a hard time and the toxic experience of going against essentially LVL 60 guys when you are yourself a LVL 15 maybe is just silly and seemed to be deterring him fron the game a little. He was still playing tho so i commend him on that!

Either way i think the OP may have a point.....i still see issues.

Edited by DarthRevis, 04 September 2014 - 08:49 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

DarthRevis, on 04 September 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

While no SOLO vs GROUP still very new or GREEN players against elites happens often. Just last night when I was in a SOLO match I played with a gentlemen (leave his name out) who claimed he was new and wanted to know how to target a mech. We (team) told him that plus a few others pointers. Then i asked "How long have you been playing?" His reply "3 weeks".

REALLY?!?! I have been playing RELIGIOUSLY since March and the talk of clan mechs came about. I am not a TOP guys but I know where i stand in the ELO pool for the most part and it is not the Kiddie end. This poor guy got hosed in about 2 mins and did stay to watch the rest of the match and ask a few questions. But the point still stands....even if he had just finished his Cadet Bonus he should not be in even the middle ELO's until 200 matches or so. Poor guy was having a hard time and the toxic experience of going against essentially LVL 60 guys when you are yourself a LVL 15 maybe is just silly and seemed to be deterring him fron the game a little. He was still playing tho so i commend him on that!

Either way i think the OP may have a point.....i still see issues.

That is one of the biggest jarring flaws in the MM right now. Because we're using Elo matching, instead of a tier or ladder system. We're ending up with people at the top in the same match as people who have only been playing for all of 2 days, and still don't know which way is up.

Whenever I run into a new player in a scenario like that, I actually message them (in game), and ask them if they want any help with their next few matches. quite a few respond, and we end up doing either group drops (I try to bring them to a well populated TS server, so they can have a group supporting them, instead of being a 2 man with a 10 man), or just chatting, and answering questions for them.

[Darth Futuza]

Kleine Maus, on 04 September 2014 - 03:06 AM, said:

You can't claim, that single players are the cause for whole teams to lose even if you do it again and again after this has been discussed in the forums for years now, that in a team match single player skills do not count as much as teamplay. It can not be all games I played been total rect. But I know that people will repeat that just because they have nothing better to say and reply disproven facts just to say something.
And when you claim that noobs are not thrown into premades I wonder why the other team runs like pro, organizing ambush while my team loses three lights at the beginning because they engage headless into a bunch of heavies and I am with a default ELO put in alpha lance.

I would actually argue that you are mostly at fault because if it appears that the enemy team is stategizing (in a solo PUG que OH MY!), then maybe you should take the lead and stategize for your team. That's what the team chat is for... This is a thinking game, and if you try to play without thinking it won't end very well.

Granted sometimes you will get stomps with the match maker, because it is suppose to put you up against teams it predicts you will lose against/win against. However, the odds of that happening 20x in a row is very very unlikely.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

There are plenty of training and how-to videos for this game now along with helpful vets. When you start a new account it will ask you if you want to go through a tutorial with how to operate in your mech. There is a training ground for players to test out their mechs without risking a kill/death ratio so they may alter their keyboard/mouse/joystick button configurations and video settings to their liking.

When someone joins a battle and asks a question, surprisingly (and thankfully) there aren't floods of "omfg N00B! gtfo now plz! u no belong! quit!" Instead there's either dead silence over the text chat or a few helpful hints given. I'm very happy about the level of the maturity of the Mechwarriors in this site for the most part as there have been plenty of mmogs where the population makes you feel like you've gone back to kindergarten expecting to see a booger splatter on your screen.

If you're having a rotten day/life.. I apologize and hope that your day/life gets better. But.. just because your experience with a game isn't what you hoped for.. doesn't mean everybody else is going to follow suit and leave too.

Aside from that.. Welcome back, Mechwarrior! Hope you enjoyed your three month vacation and looking forward to battling alongside with/against you in the future.

[Domoneky]

HA! You expected Progress.