42 replies to this topic

[UrsusMorologus]

I claimed the Orion K last night and spent a while building it up. The mechlab is kind of confusing but I am getting there. Right now I have

1 ER Large Laser
1 LRM-15
2 Medium Lasers
1 AC/10

I was going to use 2 LLs and a LRM-10 but heat is a problem with the LRM and just one LL so I switched it around a bit. Still able to make cats move from their rear defensive position and (help) kill them when I get into their area, which is what I was looking for. This config doesnt have jump jets so I am hoofing it for now.

edit--I might go 3 MLs after I get the core components upgraded, used up all my newbie money already.

Mechlab layout is not as intuitive as the old MW4 layout. Also needs a third filter to split up Owned, Trial, and Available, separately.

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 03 September 2014 - 01:37 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

Have fun with it do you have double heat sinks & endo steel in there yet?

I'd be more inclined to go more towards direct fire or more towards LRM, but I have three Orions I can equip as I see fit, so of course your options will be more limited for now as you work to build up your mech skill tree, C-bill budget, and personal experience

[n r g]

UrsusMorologus, on 03 September 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

I claimed the Orion K last night and spent a while building it up. The mechlab is kind of confusing but I am getting there. Right now I have

1 ER Large Laser
1 LRM-15
2 Medium Lasers
1 AC/10

I was going to use 2 LLs and a LRM-10 but heat is a problem with the LRM and just one LL so I switched it around a bit. Still able to make cats move from their rear defensive position and (help) kill them when I get into their area, which is what I was looking for. This config doesnt have jump jets so I am hoofing it for now.

edit--I might go 3 MLs after I get the core components upgraded, used up all my newbie money already.

Mechlab layout is not as intuitive as the old MW4 layout. Also needs a third filter to split up Owned, Trial, and Available, separately.

I decided to help you out.

For sniping 700m+~:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6284040516a76c7

a more midrange 500m~ sniper:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ecdcde704cb2c86

and if you absolutely want to do some brawling!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9b91e4f7c1afa4d

Thank me later dude

Edited by E N E R G Y, 03 September 2014 - 01:58 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

E N E R G Y, on 03 September 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

It's better to start learning the right way than to recommend a new player builds that are ****.

I'm sorry but mixing small lasers and ac's and LRMs is just stupid. You negate half the weaponry when fighting at either long or short range, allowing you to get completely dominated if your at range, or if you choose short range, to get dominated there by pure SRM brawlers.

The whole "fun" machine gun loadouts with mixed weaponry appeal to the BT kids, but they serve no functional purpose at the elite level.

If you want to "have fun" and run machine guns and PPCs and ACs and LRMs on 1 mech , by all means do so.

But if you want to win, you'll quickly find out that isn't logical and asking non-experience, novice, Battletech MWO kids questions about this game is probably your first mistake.

i.e.

"derp derp *drolls at mouth*, well I just love my little Dragon, it is a killer mech!!! It has a small laser, and large pulse laser, and lrm 5 and some machine guns!!! it just wrecks stuff try iit!!!!!"

^^^^

Sorry energy, but until he/she goes into competitive play. Your mode of thought is actually flawed (not 100% wrong, or right).

Those "fun" builds as you mentioned, actually work in casual play, and non 12v12.

If OP wants to get competitive from the get go:
1- They don't have the skill set for it yet, anyways.(mech building is a requirement for that one as well)
2- then, and only then, does your advice become 100% right.

UrsusMorologus, on 03 September 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

I claimed the Orion K last night and spent a while building it up. The mechlab is kind of confusing but I am getting there. Right now I have

1 ER Large Laser
1 LRM-15
2 Medium Lasers
1 AC/10

I was going to use 2 LLs and a LRM-10 but heat is a problem with the LRM and just one LL so I switched it around a bit. Still able to make cats move from their rear defensive position and (help) kill them when I get into their area, which is what I was looking for. This config doesnt have jump jets so I am hoofing it for now.

edit--I might go 3 MLs after I get the core components upgraded, used up all my newbie money already.

Mechlab layout is not as intuitive as the old MW4 layout. Also needs a third filter to split up Owned, Trial, and Available, separately.

My only recommendation for that build is changing the ERLL for a regular LL. The range increase does not justify the heat cost, especially considering what weapons you have in there.

[IraqiWalker]

E N E R G Y, on 03 September 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

I decided to help you out.

For sniping 700m+~:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6284040516a76c7

a more midrange 500m~ sniper:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ecdcde704cb2c86

and if you absolutely want to do some brawling!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9b91e4f7c1afa4d

Thank me later dude

Why the XL on the last brawler?

The Orion has to protect it's low-hanging ballistic side torso, that one gets focused down all the time. Sure, in the sniper builds it's fine, but a brawler should probably stick to a STD engine.

Then again, I guess the increased torso twist speed could compensate for that. Is that what you were going for?

[Koniving]

UrsusMorologus, on 03 September 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

I was going to use 2 LLs and a LRM-10 but heat is a problem with the LRM and just one LL so I switched it around a bit. Still able to make cats move from their rear defensive position and (help) kill them when I get into their area, which is what I was looking for. This config doesnt have jump jets so I am hoofing it for now.

It's an ER LL, which is meant to be hotter. It's only slightly hotter here but it was supposed to be a LOT hotter.
>.>

What you can do is reduce your firing rate. You do need to give time for weapons to cool. You may also want to increase your number of heatsinks.

The Orion K is among the hottest of Orions due to the 4 energy hardpoints. An AC/10 is really hot. If you can deal with the loss of pinpoint damage, an LB-10X can help with that heat issue. A regular Large Laser instead of an ER Large will help as well.

[n r g]

IraqiWalker, on 03 September 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Sorry energy, but until he/she goes into competitive play. Your mode of thought is actually flawed (not 100% wrong, or right).

Those "fun" builds as you mentioned, actually work in casual play, and non 12v12.

If OP wants to get competitive from the get go:
1- They don't have the skill set for it yet, anyways.(mech building is a requirement for that one as well)
2- then, and only then, does your advice become 100% right.



My only recommendation for that build is changing the ERLL for a regular LL. The range increase does not justify the heat cost, especially considering what weapons you have in there.

Well, he didn't specify whether he was a competitive player or casual dude, so I defaulted into competitive type builds and advice, assuming he wants to play to "win" and not some other absurd motive.

IraqiWalker, on 03 September 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

Why the XL on the last brawler?

The Orion has to protect it's low-hanging ballistic side torso, that one gets focused down all the time. Sure, in the sniper builds it's fine, but a brawler should probably stick to a STD engine.

Then again, I guess the increased torso twist speed could compensate for that. Is that what you were going for?

Because, the XL is great for the speed to close the distance. Most competitive players run the XL on the griffin for example, it's fragile but if you can't "close the gap" against a mech, you will be useless. IMO being atleast 80-100kph is huge to getting in range and closing the gap. Don't get me wrong, the XL is very soft and you will ABSOLUTELY need to unlock the arms and spin around to shield/spread damage or you will die fast.

You can also unlock the arms and bait the arms to shield, although I am well aware the orions arms are small and may not do that effectively. It's just a starting point, you could modify anything on those 3 builds and customize it to your own. You could totally take out the XL and put a standard and lose some weapons.

Edited by E N E R G Y, 03 September 2014 - 07:02 PM.

[UrsusMorologus]

I gotta figure out a lot more of the metagame before any of that. I'm still learning what makes good cover, how to maintain desired distance, junk like that. I still gotta go through all the intermediate levels like how to spot mechs from their silhouette and know how to play them. Right now its just running around in giant absurd robots, wrong chassis, wrong build, I know it.

ps--another nurblet q, should I give any preference to exp or gexp for filling out skill points?

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 03 September 2014 - 07:18 PM.

[Koniving]

EXP.
GXP is the only thing you can use to unlock modules, they are slow as heck to be earned.

As far as meta and what not, honestly if you're not playing what you want to play what's the point of playing? Heh. I can compete as much as the next guy but I'm gonna have fun doing it. Just don't pair flamers with LRMs (it doesn't work; even I'm not that insane).

On the flip side...
I don't have many tutorials mainly because I'm not particularly good at being concise. But if you have some time...
This is a tutorial on the Battlegrid, which may or may not help ya out in case if you're lucky enough to get a competent commander or have the fortitude to try it yourself.

Though the real reason I'm linking it is for the second match after 6 minutes, where I have a Heavy Metal armed to the teeth in a non-meta 'heresy' build that, ironically, operates like how Clan mechs are designed in MWO.

In the first match I give the icons, how to give commands, etc. In the second match I actually play while commanding.

The point though is its a mech built the way I enjoy playing and it's a lot of fun. And if you have fun running it, you'll find ways to make it work. Everyone's obsession with meta means everyone knows the builds and how to beat them. But who knows how to beat something original or unorthodox?

Good luck.

Edited by Koniving, 03 September 2014 - 07:40 PM.

[InspectorG]

I posted this the other day:

http://mwomercs.com/...29#entry3686429

For a beginner i would recommend a hunchback for a medium, it has advantages and disadvantages that teach basic piloting.

After that Shadowhawks or Stormcrows.

For a heavy, Cataphract, Jagers, or Timberwolves.

Save Lights and Assaults for after you get a good feel for the game(a couple months). If you mess up in lights or assaults, you generally pay a harsher price.

[IraqiWalker]

E N E R G Y, on 03 September 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Well, he didn't specify whether he was a competitive player or casual dude, so I defaulted into competitive type builds and advice, assuming he wants to play to "win" and not some other absurd motive.

Solid point

E N E R G Y, on 03 September 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Because, the XL is great for the speed to close the distance. Most competitive players run the XL on the griffin for example, it's fragile but if you can't "close the gap" against a mech, you will be useless. IMO being atleast 80-100kph is huge to getting in range and closing the gap. Don't get me wrong, the XL is very soft and you will ABSOLUTELY need to unlock the arms and spin around to shield/spread damage or you will die fast.

You can also unlock the arms and bait the arms to shield, although I am well aware the orions arms are small and may not do that effectively. It's just a starting point, you could modify anything on those 3 builds and customize it to your own. You could totally take out the XL and put a standard and lose some weapons.

Okay. That makes more sense. I was interested in your thought process with these builds.

InspectorG, on 03 September 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

Save Lights and Assaults for after you get a good feel for the game(a couple months). If you mess up in lights or assaults, you generally pay a harsher price.

They are the 2 least forgiving classes, and both are almost equally difficult.

[Modo44]

You want medium or long range on an Orion because its legs are bad (slow turning, hard to walk up/over hills), making it pretty bad at brawling. Take an XL, stuff lots of firepower with solid cooling in, or, stick with STD300, take less firepower and mobility, but be safer from snipers. Try to directly support a bigger mech -- essentially do what any heavy is made for -- and you will do great. After the last hitbox change, the Orion arms do offer protection if you twist well, so you should not strip them too much. AC10+2xPPC+2xML is a solid setup. AMS, symmetry and ammo adjusted for a new player (lose an arm without ill effect, reduced missile damage, lots of ammo in case of bad aim).

AC20 on an OinK is hard to use properly because it essentially forces a small engine. You then need map knowledge to get it to range without getting blown to bits, and it will have trouble twisting/turning properly without double basics. I would not suggest it to a new player.

[Elizander]

Here's one way to approach it. To simplify things you can pick a range where you want to fight at:

1) Sub-200 (MGs and Small lasers, not recommended)
2) 250-270 (Medium Lasers, SRMs)
3) 350ish (AC20s, LPLs - people will tell you not to use LPLs)
4) 450ish (Large Lasers, AC10s)
5) 600+ (ER Large Lasers, ER PPCs, Gauss Rifles, AC5s, UAC5s)

You'll probably play between #2-#4 and that should be alright. Plug an LRM10-15 if you can (use LRM5s to lower the weight and don't use artemis since I expect you are using indirect fire a lot) just so you can remain relevant and pose a threat up to 1000m.

Practice shooting things within your effective range and LRM from behind cover for anything beyond it. This should minimize return fire while allowing you to pink at your enemies. If they enter your effective range then you can deal a good amount of damage to them.

[Satan n stuff]

E N E R G Y, on 03 September 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

It's better to start learning the right way than to recommend a new player builds that are ****.

I'm sorry but mixing small lasers and ac's and LRMs is just stupid. You negate half the weaponry when fighting at either long or short range, allowing you to get completely dominated if your at range, or if you choose short range, to get dominated there by pure SRM brawlers.

The whole "fun" machine gun loadouts with mixed weaponry appeal to the BT kids, but they serve no functional purpose at the elite level.

If you want to "have fun" and run machine guns and PPCs and ACs and LRMs on 1 mech , by all means do so.

But if you want to win, you'll quickly find out that isn't logical and asking non-experience, novice, Battletech MWO kids questions about this game is probably your first mistake.

i.e.

"derp derp *drolls at mouth*, well I just love my little Dragon, it is a killer mech!!! It has a small laser, and large pulse laser, and lrm 5 and some machine guns!!! it just wrecks stuff try iit!!!!!"

Nice strawman, read my post again. Tell me exactly where I recommended putting all that stuff on one mech.
fail post, I give it a 1/10

[Redshift2k5]

UrsusMorologus, on 03 September 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

I gotta figure out a lot more of the metagame before any of that. I'm still learning what makes good cover, how to maintain desired distance, junk like that. I still gotta go through all the intermediate levels like how to spot mechs from their silhouette and know how to play them. Right now its just running around in giant absurd robots, wrong chassis, wrong build, I know it.

ps--another nurblet q, should I give any preference to exp or gexp for filling out skill points?

Never spend GXP on mech skills unless you used MC to convert a pile of Mech XP into GXP specifically for that purpose (this allow you to fasttrack a mech at the expense of pending some GXP. The xp/gxp conversion also frequently goes on sale so wait for a sale if you're going to do that)

Edited by Redshift2k5, 04 September 2014 - 06:20 AM.

[InspectorG]

Yes, hoard GXP, dont use it for mechs.

As far as play goes, look at the map in 1st person view(inside the mech) and keep an eye on how the team is moving. Occasionally press 'B' for the big map to scope whats going on as well.

Err on the side of staying with the group, occasionally taking pot shots from the battle line.

If the group, aka murderball, is moving and pushing into the enemy, thats a good sign and that is where you want to be.

If it is just sitting there, after the two sides have formed, this is usually a bad sign.

If the two sides get into a melee and everyone is all in a big red/blue pile, stay near an assault and cover their back, peek out, and take some shots too.

Focus on staying alive but not hiding in the back of the map (unless your team is winning conquest mode, then its a good idea)

DONT be one of those artillary/sniper wannabes who are clear at the back end of the map, crying for locks for their LRMs. By the time they get their perfect shot off, the target has already moved under cover.

Sniper builds are very hard to use and require lots of experience.Save that for later.

[UrsusMorologus]

Is there a rule of thumb on minimal armor? I'm adding in the widgets to learn how they work, and had to drop down to LRM-10 already.

Is the command console worth the slots/weight? Doesn't seem to do much.

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 04 September 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

UrsusMorologus, on 04 September 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

Is there a rule of thumb on minimal armor? I'm adding in the widgets to learn how they work, and had to drop down to LRM-10 already.

Is the command module worth the slots/weight? Doesn't seem to do much.

1- Don't get the command module for now. That's a very niche item right now, and you're still away from bringing it's full potential.

2- My general rule of thumb is no less than 14 armor on rear CT, (12 on the STs.), and no more than 20 on the rear. The rest goes all forward. Legs on heavies should have at least 48-50 points of armor, AT LEAST. Try to make your builds use max armor whenever possible.

3- LRM-10 is probably the most efficient LRM weapon in the IS arsenal. Great cycle time, grouping, weight, and slot cost. Probably the most used LRM launcher along with the LRM 15. If you are using LRMs as a secondary weapon (in this case you should be), a 10 or 15 is good enough. It's gonna be lack luster if you're the only one with LRMs, but should your team have LRM mechs, add to their firepower, and overwhelm enemy AMS. It'll really shine then.

Here are 2 suggested build for you to tweak and mess with (one with the stock STD 300, and the other with an XL engine)

ON1-K -XL-

ON1-K -STD-

Remember, when people share builds here, you don't need to just copy them, feel free to adjust them to suit your style of play.

[UrsusMorologus]

This is what I've ended up in Orion K

(2) ER-LLs
(1) LRM-10
(1) AC-10

That gives me operating range of 200-900m. I can make enemy ticks move from their positions with LL/LRM combo and still brawl moderately well with the LL/AC combo without overheating on either. Mediums were a bit more effective but this is simpler.

I think I have a handle on things now. Huge thanks for the info.

Also, any other new players, take a look at this guide, it was also very helpful

[IraqiWalker]

UrsusMorologus, on 04 September 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

This is what I've ended up in Orion K

(2) ER-LLs
(1) LRM-10
(1) AC-10

That gives me operating range of 200-900m. I can make enemy ticks move from their positions with LL/LRM combo and still brawl moderately well with the LL/AC combo without overheating on either. Mediums were a bit more effective but this is simpler.

I think I have a handle on things now. Huge thanks for the info.

Also, any other new players, take a look at this guide, it was also very helpful

Helping new players is the sole purpose of this forum. You're welcome XD.

EDIT: Others, feel free to correct me on this, but I personally think BAP is unnecessary here, especially considering all you have is a single LRM 10.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 04 September 2014 - 10:04 PM.