73 replies to this topic

[Rhaythe]

LauLiao, on 02 September 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Why in the world would I want to pay to play with a gimped mech?

facepalm.jpg

That, or you're just fishing.

[process]

Stock mode:

- no customization
- no earned C-bills
- no pilot efficiencies
- 1/2 armor values
- 4 default stock mechs, equivalent to the Founder's four.

Without earned C-bills, you still have to participate in the standard gameplay grind or shell out MC to purchase additional mechs.

It's a bonus mode for current, probably already paying players, and still creates incentive for new players to pay into the game.

Edited by process, 02 September 2014 - 04:11 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Stock mode should still pay.

[Sandpit]

LauLiao, on 02 September 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Why in the world would I want to pay to play with a gimped mech?

because not everyone wants to play in the same manner you do?

[Wolfways]

I don't see why "Hero mechs" should not be included in a stock mode...if the player uses the loadout the mech comes with.

As for incentive, players would still need to grind for more mechs/skills, especially if when you buy a mech you have the choice of buying a custom mech (as we currently have) or a stock mech (which cannot be customized). It also means more needed mechbays.
Having to buy Premium means I won't be involved as I simply cannot afford it.

[Alexandrix]

Customization has been dropping a big fat duece on this game since day 1.
If there were a built in stock only mode,i might play more than 3-4 matches a week.

[Wolfways]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 September 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

They don't. The game is free 2 play. But PGI has no incentive to actually make a Stock Mech queue. Just accept it. We don't live in some ideological paradise. We live in capitalist reality.

I live in my own little world and i like it here

[Deathlike]

The answer to the OP's title.

You can't.

End of story.

If you want to skip the TL;DR version...

Most of the designs are bad. This has to do mainly with being ill-armored (lol Jagermech), bad loadouts (lol Dragon), and that's before we factor in MWO's current heat system (lol SHS).

Now, being relatively selective, I'd probably filter out a few good variants, and just run those. That in itself doesn't reek of diversity.

Mind you, I've actually seen recorded play of trial mechs... before PGI instituted the Champion mech system. While hilarity is to be had, they were all bad.

While I hate stock mode, and there's probably nothing to change my mind of that, I don't have a problem people wanting it (especially when it was available in previous MW games). The problem is that at this point in time, there won't be that many people to make use of it. I suspect people that like Stock Mode is in the minority and something like this would've made more sense ages ago. Now, it's unlikely to be profitable.

That ship has sailed.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 September 2014 - 04:28 PM.

[Carrie Harder]

Deathlike, on 02 September 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

The answer to the OP's title.

You can't.

End of story.

If you want to skip the TL;DR version...

Most of the designs are bad. This has to do mainly with being ill-armored (lol Jagermech), bad loadouts (lol Dragon), and that's before we factor in MWO's current heat system (lol SHS).

Now, being relatively selective, I'd probably filter out a few good variants, and just run those. That in itself doesn't reek of diversity.

Mind you, I've actually seen recorded play of trial mechs... before PGI instituted the Champion mech system. While hilarity is to be had, they were all bad.

While I hate stock mode, and there's probably nothing to change my mind of that, I don't have a problem people wanting it (especially when it was available in previous MW games). The problem is that at this point in time, there won't be that many people to make use of it. I suspect people that like Stock Mode is in the minority and something like this would've made more sense ages ago. Now, it's unlikely to be profitable.

That ship has sailed.

I would love to see what how stock matches would go if PGI added the Devastator. Packs the ultimate meta right out of the box. Basically max armor, ultimate PPFLD loadout plus backup MLas, adequate DHS coverage, and the optimal engine for a 100 tonner (at least by TT's standards that is). Trollolololol.

Lesser mechs like the Gunslinger or maybe even King Crab might also be pretty broken in stock land. Clans already have the basically flawless Stormcrow Prime stock build.

Edited by Carrie Harder, 02 September 2014 - 04:33 PM.

[Roland]

Hmm.. I like the idea of a stock queue, but I'm not sure I'd like it enough to pay money every game just to play in it.

[Alistair Winter]

process, on 02 September 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

Stock mode:
- no customization
- no earned C-bills
- no pilot efficiencies
- 1/2 armor values
- 4 default stock mechs, equivalent to the Founder's four.
Without earned C-bills, you still have to participate in the standard gameplay grind or shell out MC to purchase additional mechs.
It's a bonus mode for current, probably already paying players, and still creates incentive for new players to pay into the game.

But why force people to play standard gameplay in order to buy new mechs for Stock mech gameplay? That's like forcing people to play Conquest in order to buy new mechs for Skirmish. What if I don't like Conquest? Will I have to suffer my way through Conquest matches just to play the game mode I like? Makes no sense from a player's perspective, which means people wouldn't do it, which makes it bad for business, in my opinion.

You could, on the other hand, give people half C-bill rewards for Stock Mech gameplay, just like other games have lower rewards for matches with Tier 1 vehicles. It makes sense because stock mechs are cheaper anyway, so the grind would be roughly the same as in normal gameplay.

Not sure what you mean by 4 default stock mechs. Would the stock mech battlefield only have 4 different mechs, when the game actually has over a hundred stock mechs ready to play?

HammerMaster, on 02 September 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

PGI's current system of Customization is overdone. Costs nowhere near what it would by ALL accounts of rule books. Causes META. Stock Mechs' should have been what was used from the start. Should BE community warfare. Us TT heads would play it. Not on a lark but because THAT is BattletechTM. You want customization. YOU PAY. Stock mode should NOT be the PAY line. Meta SHOULD be.

I whole-heartedly agree. But it's too late for that. This thread is about where to go from here, without burning the game to the ground and starting over. There's a number of things PGI just won't do. Like fixing ECM.

So while I would like to make you president of PGI, I'm trying to come up with things that make sense to the people working there currently.

[White Bear 84]

'Meta' players should be able to drop separate to 'stock' players. I know a lot of players that would much rather stock mech matches...

[Alistair Winter]

Roland, on 02 September 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

Hmm.. I like the idea of a stock queue, but I'm not sure I'd like it enough to pay money every game just to play in it.

The alternative would be to pay Premium time. I'd rather pay Premium time to have some new content than pay MC for Hero mechs, cockpit items or a camo pattern that can only be used on 1 of 100 mechs.

[Sandpit]

Deathlike, on 02 September 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

The problem is that at this point in time, there won't be that many people to make use of it. I suspect people that like Stock Mode is in the minority and something like this would've made more sense ages ago. Now, it's unlikely to be profitable.

That ship has sailed.

That's the issue I see it having. The ones who are going to enjoy and utilize stock mode most are going to be actual Btech players. new players are going to do the customization more often than not.


I do, however, disagree with stock mechs being "bad". They aren't "bad", stock mechs were, are, and have been used quite well for the better part of nearly 30 years now.

They're only "bad" when placed again min/max optimized builds

[Alistair Winter]

Deathlike, on 02 September 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

The answer to the OP's title.
You can't.
End of story.

See above. I'm an optimist and this thread is for solutions. I'm not saying that nay-saying is forbidden, I just won't listen to it

Deathlike, on 02 September 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

Most of the designs are bad. This has to do mainly with being ill-armored (lol Jagermech), bad loadouts (lol Dragon), and that's before we factor in MWO's current heat system (lol SHS).

Well, one solution would be to limit the number of Tech 2 mechs on any given team, since not all stock mechs are equal. But if you look at the gameplay we have currently, you could make the argument that most of the mechs we have right now are bad. Does anyone play the Dragon, even when they can customize it?

How often do you see the RVN-2X in a match? Or a Commando without ECM? Or the AWS-8T?

[InspectorG]

LauLiao, on 02 September 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Why in the world would I want to pay to play with a gimped mech?

Go play some stock matches, its a totally different game.
Different balances, different tactics/strategies.
Many mechs that 'suck' in regular play are often superior in stock play.
You will experience just how much DHS changes the game.

I dropped with Stock Mech Mondays when the Clans were released. Stock IS vs stock Clan felt like when Clans invaded in Battletech. Clans were clearly OP and it was great. Felt like lore. Not what the underhive QQ's about in regular play.


I would love a stock mode that was free and payed c-bill rewards. Not likely though. Not likely ever.

[Deathlike]

Sandpit, on 02 September 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

I do, however, disagree with stock mechs being "bad". They aren't "bad", stock mechs were, are, and have been used quite well for the better part of nearly 30 years now.

They're only "bad" when placed again min/max optimized builds

I limit specifically my scope when it comes to stock vs stock, and nothing more. In previous MW games, there's always the "workable few" that are "optimal". For TT, it's fine. For a FPS/simulator, it is "unbearable" for a lack of a better term for the majority of builds. The "good" stock builds are "manageable" as in I can properly manage my expectations for the limitations of the build.

Alistair Winter, on 02 September 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

Well, one solution would be to limit the number of Tech 2 mechs on any given team, since not all stock mechs are equal. But if you look at the gameplay we have currently, you could make the argument that most of the mechs we have right now are bad. Does anyone play the Dragon, even when they can customize it?

How often do you see the RVN-2X in a match? Or a Commando without ECM? Or the AWS-8T?

I'll tell you this much, while I ran the "optimal" Commando-2D with SHS, it was a painful experience at times (particularly on Mordor).

There's just a whole lot of bad balance in this game (as if I didn't say that enough), so something like the Dragon sorely needs some sort of help.

Any time I see your examples, it's only because players have to grind it (to get past the basics)... it is highly unlikely they are using them on a more permanent basis (unless, you're a collector). Mind you, I've mastered all the non-ECM commandos (minus the DK) and had fun, but only because I could actually customize it and use DHS and put together a decent build with them. I cannot see myself running stock with the various incarnations.

I have zero problems with the idea that a stock queue would be also used as a strict newbie queue, given the kinds of loadouts involved in general. The mechlab is probably still a mystery to the newbies, so putting a build handicap of sorts will have a certain level of impact in said matches.

[process]

Alistair Winter, on 02 September 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

But why force people to play standard gameplay in order to buy new mechs for Stock mech gameplay? That's like forcing people to play Conquest in order to buy new mechs for Skirmish. What if I don't like Conquest? Will I have to suffer my way through Conquest matches just to play the game mode I like? Makes no sense from a player's perspective, which means people wouldn't do it, which makes it bad for business, in my opinion.

You could, on the other hand, give people half C-bill rewards for Stock Mech gameplay, just like other games have lower rewards for matches with Tier 1 vehicles. It makes sense because stock mechs are cheaper anyway, so the grind would be roughly the same as in normal gameplay.

Not sure what you mean by 4 default stock mechs. Would the stock mech battlefield only have 4 different mechs, when the game actually has over a hundred stock mechs ready to play?

The way I see it, stock mode has no grind. No upgrades or customization means no need for C-bills. Removing pilot skills, which I think is consistent with stock mode, means not needing to play for experience or using GXP. You're essentially in the end-game as soon as you join.

To stay with the F2P model, a hypothetical new player who only plays stock would need to be incentivized to pay into the game. Therefore, they either need to grind or pay for new chassis like the rest of us. A reduced C-bill reward in stock mode is perhaps a better, less tedious alternative.

What I meant by the 4 default mechs is that they're the free ones, like the trial Champion mechs we currently have. But yano, stock Jenner D, Hunchback 4G, Catapult C1 and Atlas D.

Edited by process, 02 September 2014 - 04:54 PM.

[Eboli]

Ok - hypothesis time from me:

I suspect that stock mechs may need to be played as part CW and Dropship mech options.

Hopefully Units will be able to purchase stock mechs as part of their capabilities/strength and such mechs may be used by members of the Unit on whichever planet they are currently operating on.

I would like to think that players have an option of first using their owned mechs first but if such a mech is "destroyed" they will not be able to use it in CW (Solo dropping different thus they can still build up CBills) for a certain period of time - let's just say 48 hours. If a player runs out of personal mechs (also removes modules from play) to use they can turn to the stock reserves that the Unit owns.

Players with limited mechs can thus still get to play CW by using stock mechs.

Will bring an interesting set of game dynamics and tactics about when to drop in your customised mech vs stock. It will probably increase the desire for players to own more of one of the same type of customised mech with associated modules thus creating a CBill equipment sink for PGI, increase the number of mech bays being bought, and a CBill sink for Units in ensuring they need to buy a variety of mechs for each weight class.

Will make CW quite interesting with logistics and tactics of personal mech use and may increase the need for players to spend money on buying more mechs and associated equipment.

Play for free players will likely hate this but for me I see it as a way PGI can ensure a steady income stream for its survival - as long as they continue to improve the game...

Cheers
Eboli

[HammerMaster]

I agree. The ship may have sailed. This mis-handing fromt the start. Lack of R+R. No stock queue. I still am going to express my displeasure from here until the end. This is the ONLY Battletech we have ATM.

Alistair Winter, on 02 September 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

So while I would like to make you president of PGI,

More likes for this for me.