46 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

DV McKenna, on 04 September 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:

Team damage should definately be heavily penalised.

The amount of times I walk off spawn with yellow/orange rear because someone has spastic fingers is a joke.

The amount of times I'm standing stationary, have been standing in same spot, firing in same direction, and have some joe derp teamamte run across or just meander casually into my firing line as I click off 5LLs because some derp can't pay attention to where he's at, so then I have to do the monkey seizure dance to make all those lasers fire off in every direction BUT at the idiot that just walked and stopped right in front me.

[Dolph Hoskins]

In a chaotic pitched fight during a pub match there are bound to be mistakes no matter how much trigger discipline one has. However I think I am going to start obliterating morons who shoot my Daishi in the back in the drop zone.

[Garandos]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

Though I hate ff so much, too many people just running in front of you to take kill or assist...

I saw a good proposal somewhere to add Betty's warning of ff.

OMG OMG OMG FRIENDLY FIRE DETECTED STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT AAAAAAAAAAA

Nah, rather:

1 offense:

Warning, friendly fire!

2 offense:

I DID mention we have friendly fire allready, did i?

3 offense:

Listen chap, dont you think you are better off in CoD or something?

4 offense:

Wow, in which backwater town do they breed mouthbreathers like you?

[Almond Brown]

Wolfways, on 04 September 2014 - 02:10 AM, said:

I wonder how many LRM haters would run into a teammates missiles just to punish the firer.....

That would be a long way to run.

I.S. LRM's don't arm for the first 180m. LOL! And if somehow they are doing from the other end (enemy) of the flight, more power to the dumbasses.

[Wolfways]

Almond Brown, on 04 September 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

That would be a long way to run.

I.S. LRM's don't arm for the first 180m. LOL! And if somehow they are doing from the other end (enemy) of the flight, more power to the dumbasses.

It's amazing how many players, lights in particular, hug the enemy and then complain about friendly fire

[Michael Abt]

People moving backwards and cutting off attack/escape paths that way can be seen in many matches, forcing teammates to either take heavy enemy fire, or some friendly fire.

One of my favorite situations is HPG, first mech to reach entrance is fired upon, he starts to return fire, and then... moves backwards backwards backwards... until he hits the side wall, still trading shots. So either the rest of the team is trapped or risks to take both enemy and friendly fire.

Yes, FF should be penalized. It is not only careless shooting, more often it is careless positioning which results in FF.

[WarHippy]

Bilbo, on 04 September 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Unless the shot is already down range. FF is almost always the shooters fault.

Yeah, that isn't true. If anything it is almost always the fault of both parties not just one or the other. Penalizing FF is a really really bad idea.

[Bilbo]

WarHippy, on 04 September 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Yeah, that isn't true. If anything it is almost always the fault of both parties not just one or the other. Penalizing FF is a really really bad idea.

If you haven't pulled the trigger. There is no way you can inflict FF by accident. Situational awareness goes both ways. He should have known he was crossing your path, but you should have realized he was going to as well. If you pull the trigger at that point anyway it's on you.

[Nemesis Duck]

The amount of times I'm standing stationary, have been standing in same spot, firing in same direction, and have some joe derp teamamte run across WITHOUT A TRIANGLE ABOVE HIS HEAD ...

[Sandpit]

Bilbo, on 04 September 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

If you haven't pulled the trigger. There is no way you can inflict FF by accident. Situational awareness goes both ways. He should have known he was crossing your path, but you should have realized he was going to as well. If you pull the trigger at that point anyway it's on you.

except when they do it AFTER you've pulled the trigger on a laser that has a preset burn time with no way to stop the firing sequence

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

except when they do it AFTER you've pulled the trigger on a laser that has a preset burn time with no way to stop the firing sequence

Other than moving it out the way of course

[Bilbo]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

except when they do it AFTER you've pulled the trigger on a laser that has a preset burn time with no way to stop the firing sequence

You might note that I covered that. Also:

DV McKenna, on 04 September 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

Other than moving it out the way of course

[WarHippy]

Bilbo, on 04 September 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

If you haven't pulled the trigger. There is no way you can inflict FF by accident. Situational awareness goes both ways. He should have known he was crossing your path, but you should have realized he was going to as well. If you pull the trigger at that point anyway it's on you.

Like you said situational awareness goes both ways, however the person in a fire fight has a larger strain on their focus than the guy running around, and as such should not be held responsible for unintended FF. There is also this thing called reaction time that causes a lag between ones initial action and a change in action due to an unknown variable. An example would be the time I was lining up a shot only to have a teammate JJ over me and come down in front of me as I fired. While I was aware someone was behind me I had no idea the guy would jump over me, nor did I have time to react so I wouldn't shoot him. I shouldn't be punished for that, and why advocating for penalties for FF to put it bluntly is dumb.

[FDJustin]

Galenit, on 04 September 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

Should the c-bill penalty just vanish,
or should it be payed to the victim as compensation?

I would prever the compensation, but for this they have to track how much teamdamage is done by and to every individual teamate and thats maybe a little to much to expect from them.

Nah, that's a pretty easy thing to do. Shouldn't take them more than 15 minutes to code and test. Compile time not included.

[jack 0]

Reflective fire for the first 15-30 seconds of the match would be nifty, but beyond that I think friendly fire is a necessary evil.

[Bilbo]

WarHippy, on 04 September 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Like you said situational awareness goes both ways, however the person in a fire fight has a larger strain on their focus than the guy running around, and as such should not be held responsible for unintended FF. There is also this thing called reaction time that causes a lag between ones initial action and a change in action due to an unknown variable. An example would be the time I was lining up a shot only to have a teammate JJ over me and come down in front of me as I fired. While I was aware someone was behind me I had no idea the guy would jump over me, nor did I have time to react so I wouldn't shoot him. I shouldn't be punished for that, and why advocating for penalties for FF to put it bluntly is dumb.

As always, there are exceptions to every rule. Cases like this could easily be rectified by a threshold before penalties would be applied.

[Sandpit]

DV McKenna, on 04 September 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

Other than moving it out the way of course

exactly, which is NOT the attacker's fault

Bilbo, on 04 September 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

As always, there are exceptions to every rule. Cases like this could easily be rectified by a threshold before penalties would be applied.

now that would be a decent idea. That way incidental FF doesn't get penalized. Although, what would be the cut off? We have builds that can easily dish out 40+ damage in a single alpha strike.

[Bilbo]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

exactly, which is NOT the attacker's fault


now that would be a decent idea. That way incidental FF doesn't get penalized. Although, what would be the cut off? We have builds that can easily dish out 40+ damage in a single alpha strike.

Open to debate but I figure if dishing out more than 2 alphas worth of damage to teammates you are either doing it on purpose or not paying enough attention.

[Sandpit]

Bilbo, on 04 September 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Open to debate but I figure if dishing out more than 2 alphas worth of damage to teammates you are either doing it on purpose or not paying enough attention.

Upper range would put that in at 100 damage. I'd say put the threshhold per mech. So if you derp in front of me and take the FF as your fault, but then I derp behind player b and rake him for 20 damage because I'm not paying attention I dont' get penalized for YOUR mistake, but do have it count towards my overall penalty for MY mistake.

or

maybe do it as a damage/number of teammates hit metric? Once you hit the damage threshold OR you hit the threshold for friendlies hit, you then get the penalty.

I dunno, with FF being just as much the other person's fault as it is the aggressor, I think it's a rough area to monitor correctly so I'm not punished for your mistakes but I am held accountable for mine.

Maybe have it set to % of the teammate's health?
10 points of damage isn't very devastating to a 100-ton Atlas, but it can be very painful for a 20-ton Locust. So if you cause 10% of your teammate's health that triggers a penalty?

[Bilbo]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Upper range would put that in at 100 damage. I'd say put the threshhold per mech. So if you derp in front of me and take the FF as your fault, but then I derp behind player b and rake him for 20 damage because I'm not paying attention I dont' get penalized for YOUR mistake, but do have it count towards my overall penalty for MY mistake.

or

maybe do it as a damage/number of teammates hit metric? Once you hit the damage threshold OR you hit the threshold for friendlies hit, you then get the penalty.

I dunno, with FF being just as much the other person's fault as it is the aggressor, I think it's a rough area to monitor correctly so I'm not punished for your mistakes but I am held accountable for mine.

Maybe have it set to % of the teammate's health?
10 points of damage isn't very devastating to a 100-ton Atlas, but it can be very painful for a 20-ton Locust. So if you cause 10% of your teammate's health that triggers a penalty?

Better to keep it simple with a specific cutoff number. I like the ~100 damage number. Degrees of painful are relative. The same 10 points of damage can be as painful to an assault at the end of the match as they are at the beginning of the match for a light.