109 replies to this topic

[Ruhkil]

El Bandito, on 05 September 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

Nah, PGI nerfed them to 950 and 850 respectably in the first place. They did not do any slight reverts afterwards.

well then the 950 speed is stupid.. so a target at 810 m has 0.8 seconds instead of a full second to back out of the way. the thing is its not just that it takes 0.8 seconds for me fire it takes about a second to walk out from behind a building or crest a ridge about a half second to aim and then fire so the entire maneuver of breaking cover to hit a target takes 2-3 seconds from start to finish instead of 2-2.5 seconds.

so my feeling is that with this speed nerf an LRM boat can aquire a lock on me fire and then back behind cover and use the target decay module to ensure its shots hit.

The PPC is now less able to snap shoot than lrm boats UGH.

Edited by Ruhkil, 05 September 2014 - 06:21 AM.

[El Bandito]

Ruhkil, on 05 September 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

well then the 950 speed is stupid.. so a target at 810 m has 0.8 seconds instead of a full second to back out of the way. the thing is its not just that it takes 0.8 seconds for me fire it takes about a second to walk out from behind a building or crest a ridge about a half second to aim and then fire so the entire maneuver of breaking cover to hit a target takes 2-3 seconds from start to finish instead of 2-2.5 seconds. so my feeling is that with this speed nerf an LRM boat can aquire a lock on me fire and then back behind cover and use the target decay module to ensure its shots hit. The PPC is now less able to snap shoot than lrm boats UGH.

As a Lurmer I can tell you that you are severely mistaken in that regard.

1. LRMs must first lock you up, in order to track. PPCs can be fired immediately in comparison.

2. The LRMs take 6-7 times longer time to arrive on target than PPCs due to speed and arching nature, allowing the opponent to easily seek cover behind a tall enough obstacle to completely nullify the attack. You complain the enemy has 0.8 seconds to react to PPCs at 810 meters? Against LRMs you got at least 5 full seconds to react at such distance.

3. LRM tracking is also nullified by Radar Dep module, which the PPC does not have to worry about.

4. LRM lock time can take 3-4 times longer to achieve by the presence of enemy ECM, which the PPC also does not have to worry about.

Complaining that "ER/PPCs are now less able to snap shot than LRMs" is completely invalid statement.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 September 2014 - 06:36 AM.

[Ruhkil]

El Bandito, on 05 September 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

As a Lurmer I can tell you that you are severely mistaken in that regard.

1. LRMs must first lock you up, in order to track. PPCs can be fired immediately in comparison.

2. The LRMs take 6-7 times longer time to arrive on target than PPCs due to speed and arching nature, allowing the opponent to easily seek cover behind a tall enough obstacle to completely nullify the attack. You complain the enemy has 0.8 seconds to react to PPCs at 810 meters? Against LRMs you got at least 5 full seconds to react at such distance.

3. LRM tracking is also nullified by Radar Dep module, which the PPC does not have to worry about.

4. LRM lock time can take 3-4 times longer to achieve by the presence of enemy ECM, which the PPC also does not have to worry about.

Complaining that "ER/PPCs are now less able to snap shot than LRMs" is completely invalid statement.

I LRM quite a lot as well and yeah the modules and ecm messes with it but if you have target decay and achieve a lock you can poke out of cover to refresh your lock and just continuously rain on people....I do that in matches a lot. achieving the first lock is difficult sometimes but if you get a lock its just constant dmg. I wont say LRMS take no skill like some of the other forum warriors they do take skill and the intelligence to build you mech correctly but with the way terrain works in this game where i can acquire a lock without being in danger by hugging certain buildings and then continuously keep the lock by ducking in and out of alleyways for a second or two laughing my ass off at charge time Gauss rifles and slow ppc while lurming at them its a real comedy some times.

[Dracol]

Ruhkil, on 05 September 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

-snip-

"They LIMIT THE NUMBER OF SITUATIONS WHERE IT IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO HIT ANYTHING." This line right hear speaks volumes to your mindset. Since you can't do it, no one can......

PPC main benefit is not it's range, but the Front Loaded pin point damage. If your play style does not center around making the most of that benefit, then other weapons would work depending on the changes that were made to the PPC. Example, if long range is your preferred playstyle, the ER Large Lasers would work better for you in order to maintain that play style after the PPC range change.

Now, if pin point front load damage is what your play style requires, Then the speed changes would be an obstacle to over come. Changing preferred range engagement, designating lights as lower priority targets, maybe even changing up mech speed or chassis would work to bringing one's skill level with the weapon back up to pre-nerf figures.

[MadTulip]

Clan will be balanced to IS strength over the next weeks. The current patch just made it clear. You had your 30% bonus power for your $$$. Its over now. Time to spend some more! PGI demands cash!

[Dracol]

Ruhkil, on 05 September 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

well then the 950 speed is stupid.. so a target at 810 m has 0.8 seconds instead of a full second to back out of the way. the thing is its not just that it takes 0.8 seconds for me fire it takes about a second to walk out from behind a building or crest a ridge about a half second to aim and then fire so the entire maneuver of breaking cover to hit a target takes 2-3 seconds from start to finish instead of 2-2.5 seconds.

This is a perfect example how skill can over come a perceived handicap.

If you have a mech targeted prior to walking out from behind a building, you line up your reticle just outside of the target, opposite side you are stepping out of cover. As you step out of cover, your reticle will be nearly on target, there by decreasing the targeting time.

If you get real good at piloting a mech, you can time your reverse so that the mech slows and stops just as your weapon (arm mounted weapons are great for this) crest the edge of your cover. You have a split second to release your shot (which should be pre aligned having had a target already targeted) as the mech stops, and then it reverse back into cover.

Edited by Dracol, 05 September 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[Ruhkil]

Dracol, on 05 September 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

"They LIMIT THE NUMBER OF SITUATIONS WHERE IT IS HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO HIT ANYTHING." This line right hear speaks volumes to your mindset. Since you can't do it, no one can......

PPC main benefit is not it's range, but the Front Loaded pin point damage. If your play style does not center around making the most of that benefit, then other weapons would work depending on the changes that were made to the PPC. Example, if long range is your preferred playstyle, the ER Large Lasers would work better for you in order to maintain that play style after the PPC range change.

Now, if pin point front load damage is what your play style requires, Then the speed changes would be an obstacle to over come. Changing preferred range engagement, designating lights as lower priority targets, maybe even changing up mech speed or chassis would work to bringing one's skill level with the weapon back up to pre-nerf figures.

you make a habit of missing the point... if I shoot at a mech going 70 kph from 600m away and aim appropriately with pre nerf ppcs it will probably hit. with the post nerf PPCS the time it takes to travel the 600m distance is longer and many more variables affect the accuracy of the shot. its the difference between shooting at things with a bolt action rifle from the 20th century vs smoothbore musket from the 17th century. you can blather on about skill level all you want if a weapon is terrible and inaccurate at long ranges then it is terrible at long range regardless of who is holding it. throughout your comments you kind of passively infer that i can't shoot the ppcs and that i should "be more LEETZ YO". stop that dumb behavior. If you nerf a weapon system this hard you break an aspect of the game its not as fun as it was previously and having to adapt to random changes every 2 weeks is not a substitute for proper gameplay and balance.

[Dracol]

Ruhkil, on 07 September 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

you make a habit of missing the point... if I shoot at a mech going 70 kph from 600m away and aim appropriately with pre nerf ppcs it will probably hit. with the post nerf PPCS the time it takes to travel the 600m distance is longer and many more variables affect the accuracy of the shot. its the difference between shooting at things with a bolt action rifle from the 20th century vs smoothbore musket from the 17th century. you can blather on about skill level all you want if a weapon is terrible and inaccurate at long ranges then it is terrible at long range regardless of who is holding it. throughout your comments you kind of passively infer that i can't shoot the ppcs and that i should "be more LEETZ YO". stop that dumb behavior. If you nerf a weapon system this hard you break an aspect of the game its not as fun as it was previously and having to adapt to random changes every 2 weeks is not a substitute for proper gameplay and balance.

My counter point to your point about range is that the PPC main advantage is its Pin Point Front Loaded damage. Focusing on how effective the PPC is at long range completely misses the point of the weapon, at least how it relates to MW:O. Fluff from the IP is all fun and stuff, but when it comes to the virtual battlefield we now fight on, PPCs are Pin Point Front Load weapons first and foremost. It's long range ability is only a secondary consideration.

Now us gunts in the field can fire up a s-storm when what we see on the virtual Battetech doesn't match up with our expectations. But the fact of the matter is, we're not on the design team nor part of the decision making process. We can only work with what we have. And in the case of the PPC, skilled snap shots with exponentially increasing difficulty as a target gets farther out is what we have to work with.

[Asmudius Heng]

Gyrok, on 04 September 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

What I want to know is...why is it ok to have some IS chassis and weapons better than clans...(ALL ACs for example...)...But it is absolutely not ok to have some clan weapons better than IS weapons?

Actually, plenty of people looking for clan nerfs also agree that some systems need a buff too.

Stop thinking everyone is out to get you. Balance requires looking at many angles.

What PGI do however it beyond me because their approach is so scattershot.

IT is NOT ok for large portions of weapons, mechs and equipment to be sidelined completely on either clan or IS side and i do not think you will find many who disagree - stop trying to make it seem like there is a vendetta against clan tech from the majority. Clan ACs do need a bit of a buff i agree

[LordKnightFandragon]

Dracol, on 04 September 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

The 4 PPC build, which in theory can land a 40 pt Front Load damage with an additional 20 secondary, is a difficult mech to use..... sounds about right.

When the WHK should be cooling off that 60 heat 30% faster then it is now and that PPC should be dealing 60 point alpha, not 40.....or atleast 52....or something.....but that PPC build is alot worse on that mech then it should be.