109 replies to this topic

[Viges]

Budor, on 04 September 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

They can do exactly what they do now, lower damage or up heat. They could additionally add clan xl penalties when a side torso pops and un-nerf IS mechs mobility wise.

Some clan mechs wont survive that and they are too few... they need to normalize clan mechs first. Or release more clan mechs.

What will PGI do...

[Odins Fist]

If Clan Tech was as it is supposed to be, then there would be rivers of tears drowning IS pilots.

Clan Tech was NERFED before it ever got into MWO, then nerfed again.

Too many people CRY about this not being BT Canon or that not being BT Canon, YET they are fine with other changes to MWO that are also not BT Canon.


-Look at it this way... If you're willing to cherry pick which things you accept as not Being BT Canon, and then "Nerd Raging" over some things that are not, then you're a hypocrite.
-Everyone (that has been here since closed beta) has done it at some point, BUT it might be going back to ridiculous again in terms of balance, only time will tell.

Nerf this, Buff that, Comstar hit me with a wiffle ball bat....
wicky, wicky, wicky, - Flavor Flav..!! Yeah BOY..!!!

They could have Buffed some IS equipment back to where it was and had better results for Balance, but that would have made it POSSIBLY better, but it didn't happen.
I'm not sure 10 v 12 will work, actually i'm sure it will be a huge issue if they Nerf the Clan Tech to be equal to IS Tech..

Ready up for the show if they go that route with 10 v 12..!!
.

Edited by Odins Fist, 04 September 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Bilbo, on 04 September 2014 - 08:26 AM, said:

Except when people flood the queues with Clan assault and heavies, the matchmaker then just throws the whole idea out the window so people can get into matches.

I thought this would be under CW? 2 sides...separate. Clans can bring what they want but they always get a 4/4/2/2 Company build.

[Dark Jackal]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 September 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

However any long time player of CBT would know most Clan Omnis are a match for 2 mechs of equal tonnage. I'd take this Stormcrow against an Atlas!

See my explanation on the stock 'Mechs:
http://mwomercs.com/...le/page__st__60

If we're at making the most out of examples from the boardgame RNG, I'd gladly take a pair of die that rolls 1s all day and give you a pair of normal dies and see who wins more.

Sound good?

[Budor]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Some clan mechs wont survive that and they are too few... they need to normalize clan mechs first. Or release more clan mechs.

What will PGI do...

Whoever gets the short end of the stick can request quirks, for instance Nova Prime something along what the Awesome got.

Nerfing fun is always the worse option, adjusting weapon damage is not taking out any fun out of clan mech unless you overdo it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dark Jackal, on 04 September 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

See my explanation on the stock 'Mechs:
http://mwomercs.com/...le/page__st__60

If we're at making the most out of examples from the boardgame RNG, I'd gladly take a pair of die that rolls 1s all day and give you a pair of normal dies and see who wins more.

Sound good?

That would be more like me bringing a Stormcrow with no weapons vs Urbanmech.

[Budor]

Odins Fist, on 04 September 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

They could have Buffed some IS equipment back to where it was and had better results for Balance, but that would have made it POSSIBLY better, but it didn't happen.

Russ has a stance of this and (OMGERRRRRRRRRD) im with him once. If you buff weapons, stuff dies faster. Stuff already dies a bit too fast, it will lose the mechwarrior feel if this gets worse.

Thats why i would rather advocate IS mobility buffs paired with the coming clan weapon adjustments.

Clan-XL penalties would be a cherry on top and we could have a nice game/cw for most of the playerbase.

[Viges]

Budor, on 04 September 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Whoever gets the short end of the stick can request quirks, for instance Nova Prime something along what the Awesome got.

Nerfing fun is always the worse option, adjusting weapon damage is not taking out any fun out of clan mech unless you overdo it.

Yea, I saw some awesomes after that change and then... they disappeared

Anyway we'll see.

[Gyrok]

Budor, on 04 September 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

Russ has a stance of this and (OMGERRRRRRRRRD) im with him once. If you buff weapons, stuff dies faster. Stuff already dies a bit too fast, it will lose the mechwarrior feel if this gets worse.

Thats why i would rather advocate IS mobility buffs paired with the coming clan weapon adjustments.

Clan-XL penalties would be a cherry on top and we could have a nice game/cw for most of the playerbase.

PGI has been smoking cigarettes that got dosed for some time...do not bum cigarettes from PGI, and leave their kool-aid alone. The kool-aid is bad!

[Dark Jackal]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 September 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

That would be more like me bringing a Stormcrow with no weapons vs Urbanmech.

Ah, so you do understand the odds of the board game does not compare to a skilled FPS person that does not rely on dice rolls to be good.

Though I have rolled a 12 out of 12 with one ERLL from an Atlas head shotting a Menshen with MASC activated destroying the cockpit making the uber-medium a sitting duck, so anything is possible in the board game. This is after missing consistently for 2-3 turns. You really cannot say the same with MWO considering normal players are doing more DPS than can be done on a good day with a board game at longer ranges **consistently**. The boardgame balances out this with die rolls and relative BV.

[Budor]

I could live with the clans being a bit better, its cool with me fits the lore to a degree and adds an element skill to using IS mechs.

Right now the difference is simply to big though.

[Mcgral18]

Budor, on 04 September 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

I could live with the clans being a bit better, its cool with me fits the lore to a degree and adds an element skill to using IS mechs.

Right now the difference is simply to big though.

On two mechs?

Out of 8?


NERF EVERYTHING!

(Seriously...the cSPL had a nerf, of all things!)

Edited by Mcgral18, 04 September 2014 - 11:37 AM.

[Domoneky]

I thought that we all wanted this game to be completely nerfed to oblivion so it doesn't exist anymore. That's the General Idea I've been getting from all the ForumWarriors these past 2 years. So what if they made a few of their deadlines. Who cares if they try. Why Don't we simply refuse to log in until either the IP is to someone else( I mean lets face it. No one else will) or It gets to the point where people are begged to join because its fun.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dark Jackal, on 04 September 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

Ah, so you do understand the odds of the board game does not compare to a skilled FPS person that does not rely on dice rolls to be good.

Though I have rolled a 12 out of 12 with one ERLL from an Atlas head shotting a Menshen with MASC activated destroying the cockpit making the uber-medium a sitting duck, so anything is possible in the board game. This is after missing consistently for 2-3 turns. You really cannot say the same with MWO considering normal players are doing more DPS than can be done on a good day with a board game at longer ranges **consistently**. The boardgame balances out this with die rolls and relative BV.

What with Lag, Ping/FpS Spikes and everything else, you wanna use FPS skillz as a measuring stick?
You wouldn't bring the Stormcrow I posted against an Atlas in this game? Players here are complaining Clans are OP If so they should be able to handle 2 on 1 of equal weight/skill. Can they?

[Dark Jackal]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 September 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

What with Lag, Ping/FpS Spikes and everything else, you wanna use FPS skillz as a measuring stick?
You wouldn't bring the Stormcrow I posted against an Atlas in this game? Players here are complaining Clans are OP If so they should be able to handle 2 on 1 of equal weight/skill. Can they?

Boss, you're only accounting for weight but not numbers which is where you originally replied to me with regards to 10 v 12. Remember?

Remove the Atlas and have two Heavies then revisit your example and try with your "Lag, Ping/FpS Spikes and everything else" and see if being shot from two flanks is going to help a lone Stormcrow win.

[wanderer]

The original Clan stats have served their purpose.

Now that enough people bought into their P2W dreams, it's time for the Clans to be nerfed into the ground- which, given PGI's unwillingness to do any other balance methods, is the only solution.

And since some stuff on Clan designs is impossible to nerf, other parts will be beaten down still further in the name of balance, Paul-style. If you'd like a preview, go watch people playing Highlanders.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Mcgral18, on 04 September 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

On two mechs?

Out of 8?


NERF EVERYTHING!

(Seriously...the cSPL had a nerf, of all things!)

Nerfing pulse lasers is a bit... pointless, we agree there, but apart from the Clan lights which are inferior, all the Clan mechs are good, due to the XL engines and weapons.

The Nova could eat any IS medium for breakfast due to current laser balance. The Stormcrow is so OP it's not even funny. The Summoner is lacking in hardpoints and build variety and it's still better than the Cataphract. The Warhawk... well I can't be that sure about the Warhawk since I haven't played it and haven't seen it used much, and even when I see them they have very lackluster builds like 4xERPPC, but I'd bet it can trash a Stalker with a proper build any day of the week.

Even with the nerfs the Clans will still have better lasers and better engines and be OP, it will just be closer than before.

PGI is actually doing this quite sensibly IMO, they are adjusting one balance issue at a time to bring things in line. While they did overnerf the PPC, they are on the right track.

[Revis Volek]

Budor, on 04 September 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

Well i am in the position where i will keep generalising because to me more speed is always better, there is no optimal, that is why clan lights are not an issue and why i would take an Summoner over any IS heavy at the moment.

I can see people that like Shadowhaks or Griffins more than the Nova (again speed(!) i dont SH and Nova are best meds imo.) but i certainly wont call the Nova a weaker mech. If it wasnt for the unpenalised XL it would be a tougher matchup.

Like i said, i have no idea about the warhawk and i dont talk about lights but the rest is better for me. The clan weapon nerfs from the PTS arent even that severe, they will certainly not make any chassi become useless suddenly.

What is the other option? Mobility nerfs? The Victor/Highlander treatment? I certainly hope they do not go that way

First, The BJ, SHD, GRN and VND all are better chassis (some even being small laser boats) then the Nova. The Nova is fragile and cannot hill hump very well (even know i see people try all the time, your head is exposed for about 4 seconds until your arms make it over that ridge to shoot....then another seconds or so on your ride down. Dumb tactic in the nova) and really excels as a backstabber and "snake in the grass" or "ambush" role. Laser boats dont scare me very much unless i know the pilot. Most people cant keep it pinpointed and even still just spin that torso like you got fire ants in the cockpit.

Nova also cannot run with a AC/20 (neither can the Vindicator) so that being said the SHD and BJ seem like the winners. They get to use the best Pin point weapon in the game and can be fast as the Nova while having high weapon mounts, good hardpoints and variety.

BTW, If you feel so strongly about the Summoner and Nova put your money were you mouth is and lets have a duel? I will bring whatever IS mech you want (even kno I am Clanner) and we will see if that changes you opinion? Summoners are pretty lackluster and I feel confident that I could burn most of them down in a AC/20 Medium mech.

Edited by DarthRevis, 04 September 2014 - 12:30 PM.

[Budor]

This isnt a 1on1 game we can duel whenever you like though just hit me up ingame, never done this maybe i like it

DarthRevis, on 04 September 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

First, The BJ and VND all are better chassis...

Not sure if serious.

[Duran Vancor]

DarthRevis, on 04 September 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

First, The BJ, SHD, GRN and VND all are better chassis (some even being small laser boats) then the Nova.

Why is the Nova so undervalued? It dual wields Stalkers! One on each arm. 12 ERML = 9 ISLL + 3 damage.
It has more firepower than any IS Assault can even dream of, yet having any drawbacks like low slung arms "ruins" it.

Again, a medium mech with more firepower than assaults is bad because it has drawbacks too. WTH!