98 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

LOL! You folks throw "meta" around like it's a dirty word...

​Clarity: Meta = What ever the latest play-metrics deem to be the apex mech/configuration = What a large % of the player-base uses = what is considered "OP".

​With every swing of the balance pendulum and or injection of a superior weapon platform the "meta" will shift...

It's inevitable and unavoidable.... Why that paradigm is continually ignored baffles me....

[Alex Warden Wolf]

nova and kitfox aren´t that much of a comparison to make a statement about clans as a whole... you should have tried the scarecrow during public... that one and the timber give some insight of what might await us in the future if PGI fails to adress them PROPERLY (by that i mean also not OVERNERFING them...) when more GOOD clanmechs arrive... and btw, we also might get more omnipods for the existing ones, the warhawk for example...

high mobility, beasty loadouts possible, not to forget combinable to your likings, basically good in everything ... high damage output on large ranges (there is no real short range in "Clan", except for small lasers and srms...)

i know that driving the nova is saying about ALL clan mechs as much as driving the ImbaWolf is, but as i said: in the future there will be more clan mechs, and most of them are not as small, slow and fragile as the kitfox is...

and btw: who ever thinks the kittyfox is trash, doesn´t use it right... it´s a rather strong escort for the big guys... it can mount some nasty loadouts as well (well, for a 30 ton mech that is) ... i would just say, the kitfox is pretty well balanced because it has a downside for each advantage... hint: kitfox is not a scout...

Edited by Alex Warden Wolf, 04 September 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

DaZur, on 04 September 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

LOL! You folks throw "meta" around like it's a dirty word...

​Clarity: Meta = What ever the latest play-metrics deem to be the apex mech/configuration = What a large % of the player-base uses = what is considered "OP".

​With every swing of the balance pendulum and or injection of a superior weapon platform the "meta" will shift...

It's inevitable and unavoidable.... Why that paradigm is continually ignored baffles me....

it may be unavoidable, but it does not need to be so poorly balanced as to be as blatant as Metashifts in MWO have been.

With proper imperfect balance, yes, there will be Meta, but it will be the millimetric differences that only top tier players really notice and maximize, like the little things that shave a 1/10 th of a second off a track star or athletes time in the Olympics.

Due to Paul, current Metashifts leave the competitive gaps to be more akin to Olympic vs Special Olympics.

[Mystere]

Carrie Harder, on 04 September 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

I've heard rumors that hitscan lasers are the 'meta' now. Lol. Even one particular HoL Ember pilot mentioned that PPFLD isn't the "king" anymore, and that lazors have the advantage (see Victor Drake's thread). I don't fully believe it, but it is what it is I guess...

<Steps out of the shadows>

Psst! Things are not what they seem to be. A great conspiracy of misinformation is taking place. For what ends, I leave that determination to you. But, this I can say: Be careful and trust no one.

<Steps back into the shadow>

[Sandpit]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 September 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

it may be unavoidable, but it does not need to be so poorly balanced as to be as blatant as Metashifts in MWO have been.

With proper imperfect balance, yes, there will be Meta, but it will be the millimetric differences that only top tier players really notice and maximize, like the little things that shave a 1/10 th of a second off a track star or athletes time in the Olympics.

Due to Paul, current Metashifts leave the competitive gaps to be more akin to Olympic vs Special Olympics.

that's how MWO has always been "balanced" though. PGi shifts its attention to a new "island" and bam, the entire game is shifted to cater to that particular demographic. This is due to not having and sticking with a clear vision. This is what happens when a company has no true direction and just keeps chasing the next "shiny" that has caught their attention

[Kalimaster]

We all make mistakes.

AT LAST SOMEONE HAS SEEN THE LIGHT!

[Jazzbandit1313]

Alex Warden Wolf, on 04 September 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

nova and kitfox aren´t that much of a comparison to make a statement about clans as a whole... you should have tried the scarecrow during public... that one and the timber give some insight of what might await us in the future if PGI fails to adress them PROPERLY (by that i mean also not OVERNERFING them...) when more GOOD clanmechs arrive... and btw, we also might get more omnipods for the existing ones, the warhawk for example...

high mobility, beasty loadouts possible, not to forget combinable to your likings, basically good in everything ... high damage output on large ranges (there is no real short range in "Clan", except for small lasers and srms...)

i know that driving the nova is saying about ALL clan mechs as much as driving the ImbaWolf is, but as i said: in the future there will be more clan mechs, and most of them are not as small, slow and fragile as the kitfox is...

and btw: who ever thinks the kittyfox is trash, doesn´t use it right... it´s a rather strong escort for the big guys... it can mount some nasty loadouts as well (well, for a 30 ton mech that is) ... i would just say, the kitfox is pretty well balanced because it has a downside for each advantage... hint: kitfox is not a scout...

While I did use the fox and nova for my test rounds, I am speaking about clan weapons and balance as a whole, not specific mechs. Obviously some mechs are better than others depending on the player. There are people that can do assault-level damage and scores in their mediums (*cough me*) so you'll have people saying that the shadowhawk is the best mech in the game (very debatable) So no, i was not downing on the kitfox, just the clan gameplay style and strategies vs IS

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

DaZur, on 04 September 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

We'e discussed this before 1000 times...

There is a segment of this player base that will not be happy until we all are piloting beige boxes with a single sLas (or CsLas) and 1000 hit-points.

Welcome to MW:O - Pillow Fight Edition.

you forgot the hoverjets.

[Sandpit]

ArchMage Sparrowhawk, on 04 September 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

you forgot the hoverjets.

SC just gave all backers free jetpacks so I actually have a hover jet
kinda

[Mystere]

DaZur, on 04 September 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

We'e discussed this before 1000 times...

There is a segment of this player base that will not be happy until we all are piloting beige boxes with a single sLas (or CsLas) and 1000 hit-points.

Welcome to MW:O - Pillow Fight Edition.

<Steps out from the shadows>

There is another, and much older, segment of the player base that wants the Clans destroyed and all traces of their existence scrubbed from the records. This crusade has been going on since FASA unleashed the Clans on those perturbed souls.

<Steps back into the shadows>

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

I'm actually glad I saved my money regarding the clans. I got to toy around with them on the last PST and I was sincerely underwhelmed by them. They were definitely "cool" but nothing special. They're exactly what we had before their release, just different stats and colors.

I regularly eat Dires and timbers for lunch with my Misery. So I don't see them as "op", unfortunately Russ stated "the analytics scream OP" so that's where we're headed because that's PGI's latest audience

Apparently, they were looking at the wrong analytics crowd.

Edited by Mystere, 04 September 2014 - 07:48 AM.

[Solomon Ward]

Stormcrows, Timberwolves and Dire Wolves are absolute beasts.
No matter how many "Clans are fine" threads people make.
Do i want them nerfed ?
Nope.I am an advocat for 10 vs 12 and even buff the Clans if necessary to balance it out.

Edited by Solomon Ward, 04 September 2014 - 07:54 AM.

[Viges]

Release all clan mechs for cbills and I dont care. I would like too see how you will be fighting 90% clan mech population with IS mechs, should be pretty hilarious. Even in Nova - not the best clan med - Im doing better than in most of my IS meds and with less effort.

Solomon Ward, on 04 September 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Nope.I am an advocat for 10 vs 12 and even buff the Clans if necessary to balance it out.

Yea the problem is the most people would like to play more powerful mechs - so queues problem arises.

[Jody Von Jedi]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

Im doing better than in most of my IS meds and with less effort.

Define and document "better"?

I tried out that Nova too. All I can say is yuck.

[Lexx]

You can't really judge clan mechs by using stock versions of 2 mediocre chassis. I had a chance to try the Timber Wolf on the test server during the last test. I tossed one together and got 5 kills and over 1000 damage my very first time using one. It seemed pretty OP to me.

[Viges]

Jody Von Jedi, on 04 September 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

Define and document "better"?

I tried out that Nova too. All I can say is yuck.

Spoiler

not even mastered her yet

Edited by Viges, 04 September 2014 - 08:07 AM.

[Ultimax]

Moomtazz, on 04 September 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Is there any way to prove this?

He can post his stats for the mech.

Total Damage / # of Matches

[Sandpit]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

Spoiler

not even mastered her yet

I can easily dig up 3 screenies of me doing just as well (and better) in an IS mech if that's what we're using to "prove" something is "op"

[Viges]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

I can easily dig up 3 screenies of me doing just as well (and better) in an IS mech if that's what we're using to "prove" something is "op"

Im tired of proving anything, Im doing better in clan mechs than in IS mechs with less effort, release all clan mechs for cbill and I dont care. Ill be driving them and you can think that they are balanced. No nerfs needed just release for cbills. But before that p2w is clear to me.

[kapusta11]

Just wait untill you get your hands on non trial, elited Stormcrow, Timberwolf or Dire wolf, OP.

[FDJustin]

Lexx, on 04 September 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

You can't really judge clan mechs by using stock versions of 2 mediocre chassis. I had a chance to try the Timber Wolf on the test server during the last test. I tossed one together and got 5 kills and over 1000 damage my very first time using one. It seemed pretty OP to me.

I missed the opportunity. Didn't realize the TW was available...

On the test server, I had much less fear of clan mechs in general. Either I was very "on" that day, or the test server nerfs are very noticeable.
(Or all the test server clanners were people who never played them before.)