98 replies to this topic

[Jody Von Jedi]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

not even mastered her yet

I see those were in customized mechs. I assumed you were talking about the (C) trial mech. Is it really "easier" than your customized IS mechs? I'm sure most pilots that play regularly would be able to show similar matches in IS mechs. Anecdotal evidence is just that. Play what you like and what you do well in, I say.

[Sandpit]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

Im tired of proving anything, Im doing better in clan mechs than in IS mechs with less effort, release all clan mechs for cbill and I dont care. Ill be driving them and you can think that they are balanced. No nerfs needed just release for cbills. But before that p2w is clear to me.

uh huh....

[DaZur]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

that's how MWO has always been "balanced" though. PGi shifts its attention to a new "island" and bam, the entire game is shifted to cater to that particular demographic. This is due to not having and sticking with a clear vision. This is what happens when a company has no true direction and just keeps chasing the next "shiny" that has caught their attention

Playing devils advocate... I'm issuing a double edge sword.

If / When PGI chooses to stick with their internal vision / convictions they are accused of ignoring their player base and setting them on an island...

I know PGI is guilty of a plethora of fundamental development mistakes... But they are damned regardless of the stance they take as they will never accommodate everyone.

[Viges]

Jody Von Jedi, on 04 September 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Is it really "easier" than your customized IS mechs?

yes

Quote

I'm sure most pilots that play regularly would be able to show similar matches in IS mechs.

Maybe but here I have a fixed variable - the pilot (me).
I can compare my performance with clan and is mechs.

[Adiuvo]

Carrie Harder, on 04 September 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

I've heard rumors that hitscan lasers are the 'meta' now. Lol. Even one particular HoL Ember pilot mentioned that PPFLD isn't the "king" anymore, and that lazors have the advantage (see Victor Drake's thread). I don't fully believe it, but it is what it is I guess...

'Meta' is trickle down... it took time for gen pop to realize ballistic/PPC as well.

[Ultimax]

Adiuvo, on 04 September 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

'Meta' is trickle down... it took time for gen pop to realize ballistic/PPC as well.

I started using CUAC 5s + CERMLAS on the TBR and I wasn't satisfied.

Then tried all energy with CERPPCs and CERLLAS, but they nerfed not long after.

Had a moment where I doubted the silliness of it and mounted CLPLs + more DHS instead of the CUAC5s and pretty much never looked back.


Not sure if that's what your unit is running, but it's nice to hear that this type of build direction is being used at a higher end than I play - I was expecting jeers about using CLPLs when I first put them on my mech.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 04 September 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[Sandpit]

DaZur, on 04 September 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

Playing devils advocate... I'm issuing a double edge sword.

If / When PGI chooses to stick with their internal vision / convictions they are accused of ignoring their player base and setting them on an island...

I know PGI is guilty of a plethora of fundamental development mistakes... But they are damned regardless of the stance they take as they will never accommodate everyone.

there's the other fallacy, but I'm glad you brought it up so I can shred it

Don't you think every game every created deals with the same issue? This isn't a "new" problem for game development companies. So how do those other guys do it? Well, they do it in a few ways.

One is simply making your game, selling it to the customers who enjoy it, and be done with it.
(with this being a niche game that might not be enough though)

Another is to add options to the game instead of restrictions. Just like many shooters have a "hardcore" mode that makes the game more difficult in terms of damage and such, they add options. The difference in that and what PGi does? Well instead of ADDING, PGI adjusts the entire game and direction to specifically cater to one section.

That's the difference. PGI has caused the rift in the audience, not the audience itself. The second PGI decided to go with the "one way or the other" mentality instead of "include new features that welcome that new demographic as well", they created a wedge within the community. Those that are being catered to at the current time are "happy". The problem is that everyone else is unhappy. It goes on and on jumping from the current audience to the next.

That's the difference in having a direction and sticking with it and just doing complete 180s with the entire game every few months.

[Adiuvo]

Ultimatum X, on 04 September 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

I started using CUAC 5s + CERMLAS on the TBR and I wasn't satisfied.

Then tried all energy with CERPPCs and CERLLAS, but they nerfed not long after.

Had a moment where I doubted the silliness of it and mounted CLPLs + more DHS instead of the CUAC5sand pretty much never looked back.


Not sure if that's what your unit is running, but it's nice to hear that this type of build direction is being used at a higher end than I play - I was expecting jeers about using CLPLs when I first put them on my mech.

That's exactly the build, yes. 2 CLPLs and 4 CERMLs.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...010e3c5c6e56ff9

With the reduction in CERLL burn time in the PTS those might be subbed for the CLPLs. Gotta test it out when it comes.

Edited by Adiuvo, 04 September 2014 - 08:44 AM.

[Koniving]

Jazzbandit1313, on 04 September 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

So, I digress, and apologize for any misgivings I have caused anyone by insulting the clans in the past, and I urge anyone who still believes that they're OP to take a clan mech out for a stroll.

*There are some issues with a few weapons here and there...Clan PPC's being too low heat, etc....but still beam durations are killer long and engine caps SUCK

Most people think Clan ER PPCs are too hot. Personally I like them. But the ER Large Lasers (both sides) are too cold.

Thankfully according to what we had in the public test before last with a new map, you'll be able to see all the Clan mechs and test hitboxes. That's the main thing people don't know is how their hitboxes work. Until that's figured out they will seem a lot tougher than they really are.

(Hints: Assaults, go for ARMS, not TORSOS. Then CT. Warhawk you could go RT first but the forward armor is very high. Only do this if it's a missile boat.
Stormcrows, the animations and hitbox design come together to make this thing almost invincible to laser weapons except on the high rise shoulders and the legs. Get a leg first.
Timber Wolves, not sure where to shoot? Shoot the missile launcher. But whenever possible, lay into their backs after sneaking up on them. Most Timber Wolves have 2 armor on the back because each side-front torso hitbox is, in fact, larger than the hitbox for the CT of the Awesome.
Novas, anywhere works.
Kitfox and Adder. Kitfox right arm first then anywhere you want. Adder, like most Clans you can get an instant kill with the cockpit or you can snag a leg and then cripple it. They are LRM magnets, too.
Summoners are so easily killed I don't need to give a hint.
That's all of them.)

Now, on the last public test there were many conversations when the Timber Wolves and such were for cbills or MC or whatever it was along with the huge MC and Cbill payout injected into every tester account. Many of them included "Dire Wolves suck!" "Timber Wolf feels great but dies easily. When I fight them they seem so much tougher than this but it can't even take some SRMs. "

Honestly the only good thing I heard from people who were new to using Clan mechs is "the Stormcrow is amazing!" That's...pretty much the only positive feedback I heard. It was soon followed with 6 or 7 people saying "it needs to be nerfed."



My favorite though, is how unanimously everyone said Streak 6s suck. When on the test server the reload times for Streak 6s were reduced (by nearly 2 seconds) compared to what's in the game now. But right now Streak 6s are "OP."

[Ultimax]

Adiuvo, on 04 September 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

That's exactly the build, yes. 2 CLPLs and 4 CERMLs.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...010e3c5c6e56ff9

With the reduction in CERLL burn time in the PTS those might be subbed for the CLPLs. Gotta test it out when it comes.

Wow that's my build down to even the number of JJs.

Yes I plan to test the CERLLs, but haven't managed to find an optimal config that I like, for example just moving things around, swapping in the CERLLs and adding more I end up with 2 tons left over, but out of slots.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...24f7933aa7914df

One fit, which I'll probably test post burn reduction would be to swap in the CERLLAS, keep the DHS the same overall but add in a larger targeting computer. I'd rather have more DHS, but still haven't found a way to push to 26 without having tonnage unused.



Thanks for the reply.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 04 September 2014 - 09:02 AM.

[Viges]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Another is to add options to the game instead of restrictions. Just like many shooters have a "hardcore" mode that makes the game more difficult in terms of damage and such, they add options. The difference in that and what PGi does? Well instead of ADDING, PGI adjusts the entire game and direction to specifically cater to one section.

So much single player veteran are you...

Take 6 mls cicada with single heatsinks or most stock is mechs and have your hardcore if you want - no one prevents you from doing that (well maybe only some common sense but fk that).

[FDJustin]

Koniving, on 04 September 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

Now, on the last public test there were many conversations when the Timber Wolves and such were for cbills or MC or whatever it was along with the huge MC and Cbill payout injected into every tester account. Many of them included "Dire Wolves suck!" "Timber Wolf feels great but dies easily. When I fight them they seem so much tougher than this but it can't even take some SRMs. "

Honestly the only good thing I heard from people who were new to using Clan mechs is "the Stormcrow is amazing!" That's...pretty much the only positive feedback I heard. It was soon followed with 6 or 7 people saying "it needs to be nerfed."

They don't really have a good baseline for comparison if just about every laser is unanimously nerfed before their first ride. Part of what made them so tough was the range. Being able to hold back, dish out damage, and kick the crap out of anything trying to get close goes a long way to preserve armour.
And... They should know better than to judge the fragility without getting used to the angles or specifics on how to pilot it.

[Sandpit]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

So much single player veteran are you...

Take 6 mls cicada with single heatsinks or most stock is mechs and have your hardcore if you want - no one prevents you from doing that (well maybe only some common sense but fk that).

?
yea you completely missed the point (much liek PGI has)

You offer players ways to play the game that brings them the most enjoyment instead of limiting, your mentality leads to smaller number of players having fun with the game. Do you not see how that's affected the player size here? Do you think there would be more players or less players had PGI, instead of taking the courses they have, had implemented game modes that gave more demographics a way to play that was enjoyable to them?

You can argue against that all you want but take a look at successful online MMO style games. They don't try to toss the entire population into a single gamestyle and say "play it this way or go elsewhere". Want to know why? Well it's because there's enough other games out there that they WILL go elsewhere.

But you keep on thinking options is a bad thing.

[Koniving]

FDJustin, on 04 September 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

They don't really have a good baseline for comparison[snip for length]

And... They should know better than to judge the fragility without getting used to the angles or specifics on how to pilot it.

I agree. But there's just too much time between when it was 'sold' and when (as one thing put it) the non-cash whales can get them. Lots of opinions formulate before then.

[Mothykins]

After Playing the test server I can honestly say that I was let down by the clans. 100% disappointed. There was all this talk that they where op, but playing before that I wasn't really seeing it. So I was really enthusiastic to play them.

Timber wolf sucked. Straight up hated it. Dire whale was underwhelming. Summoner was ok, but felt squishy. Adder was workable but nothing fantastic. Kit fox felt bad.

Mind you, I'm a locust pilot. I 1v1 summoners with the 1V and win. So there is that.

Makes me think it's play style, I'm used to super fast knife fight mechs. Except my other best mech is the Jester, with twin erppc and 20 DHS. There's just something not clicking with the clans.

I dunno man.

[Tezcatli]

Yeah. Let's all pretend like it's all balanced. XLs with greater survivability. Lasers with more damage and range. Even if you don't get the entire duration off. The higher damage makes up for it and you're hitting from farther for more damage by comparison. And missile spam. Half weight LRM launchers that ripple fire for maximum screen shake? Oh but, wait, AMS is so good against it. Too bad it gets wasted within the first seconds of the match against missiles that won't even hit you because you're in cover. But not to worry, Clans get double what IS get in AMS ammo per ton.

I do think the Clan ACs could use a buff though. Either increase the rate of fire or even reduce the number of shots that are needed for total damage. Or give the IS the same treatment. Often when I see people say they're doing well against the Clans. It's usually a Jager pilot or a Cataphract. I tried the Ilya on the PTS and that was guuuuuuuddddddd. :3

I tried the Timberwolf and the Summonr. The Summoner was fairly lackluster, though I hear it makes a good jump sniper. The Timberwolf on the other hand. Holy shet. I barely even had to make an effort compared to my Orion. Incidentally I did drop a 350XL into my Orion to give it comparable mobility to a Timberwolf. It helped with getting into cover and tactical positioning. But despite having a comparable number of weapons that I had on the Timberwolf. It couldn't do as much damage on average and died more easily despite all the twisting.

I think balancing is in order. I just wish we had a more quick, but small balancing effort. Instead baseball bat to the head balancing effort.

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

SC just gave all backers free jetpacks so I actually have a hover jet
kinda

SC?

[verybad]

Seriously. If Clans are more effective in game, then either bonus IS xp/CB gains per game to make grinding in IS more profitable, or change the numbers of mechs per game and make teams one or the other not mixed (10C /12 IS has been the most suggested.

The clans tech is supposed to be better. While I'm all for balanced games, non mixed teams and more creative balancing than hack and slash nerfing is boring. and makes the game boring.

[WarHippy]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

Spoiler

not even mastered her yet

What are we supposed to take from this? The fact you are posting semi-decent scores(not great scores mind you) somehow proves that the Clan mechs or at the very least the Nova is OP? If that is how we measure if something is OP or not I guess we better nerf the Thunderbolt because I got Ace of Spades in that.

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 04 September 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

SC?

star citizen