98 replies to this topic

[Viges]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Do you not see how that's affected the player size here? Do you think there would be more players or less players had PGI, instead of taking the courses they have, had implemented game modes that gave more demographics a way to play that was enjoyable to them?

Broken promises, many bags, high prices, no new game content (maps/game modes). All that. But all that has nothing to do with clan/is balance. Nerfing clans is not limiting to game - its just a balance changes.

Quote

You can argue against that all you want but take a look at successful online MMO style games. They don't try to toss the entire population into a single gamestyle and say "play it this way or go elsewhere". Want to know why? Well it's because there's enough other games out there that they WILL go elsewhere.

But you keep on thinking options is a bad thing.

All successful mmos do balance (see wow as the most successful example or dota/lol) - lots of nerfs, qq/whine/rage - doing fine.

Game balance is a necessary evil and has to be done. Not saying that PGI doing it right, but they would need no nerf something anyway.

Again nothing to do with limiting players or game. Lack of content - thats what limiting.

[Sandpit]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

So much single player veteran are you...

Take 6 mls cicada with single heatsinks or most stock is mechs and have your hardcore if you want - no one prevents you from doing that (well maybe only some common sense but fk that).

has nothing to do with balancing clans

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Broken promises, many bags, high prices, no new game content (maps/game modes). All that. But all that has nothing to do with clan/is balance. Nerfing clans is not limiting to game - its just a balance changes.



All successful mmos do balance (see wow as the most successful example or dota/lol) - lots of nerfs, qq/whine/rage - doing fine.

Game balance is a necessary evil and has to be done. Not saying that PGI doing it right, but they would need no nerf something anyway.

Again nothing to do with limiting players or game. Lack of content - thats what limiting.

[Viges]

WarHippy, on 04 September 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

What are we supposed to take from this? The fact you are posting semi-decent scores(not great scores mind you) somehow proves that the Clan mechs or at the very least the Nova is OP? If that is how we measure if something is OP or not I guess we better nerf the Thunderbolt because I got Ace of Spades in that.

I posted the scores that I got at the day I bought Nova. These are good scores for me. I'm doing better with clan mechs than in is ones. And I have already said that. You can measure something by trying it and comparing.

But I guess people like you just dont care. They spam forums with uhavenoproofs and all that.

[Sandpit]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

I posted the scores that I got at the day I bought Nova. These are good scores for me. I'm doing better with clan mechs than in is ones.

so much misunderstanding of "op" and data...

You do better in a nova than an IS mech so that's evidence that they're "op" right?

[DaZur]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

I posted the scores that I got at the day I bought Nova. These are good scores for me. I'm doing better with clan mechs than in is ones. And I have already said that. You can measure something by trying it and comparing.

But I guess people like you just dont care. They spam forums with uhavenoproofs and all that.

FWIW...

I am presently doing as well or better in my Clan medium than I was doing with my IS heavies... Not that anyone places any credibility on my anecdotal evidence...

Edited by DaZur, 04 September 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[Viges]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

so much misunderstanding of "op" and data...

You do better in a nova than an IS mech so that's evidence that they're "op" right?

Yea, that and all the people that are saying the same, game tests showing 90% of clan's wins, top tier players saying that. Yea, all that indeed.

[Sandpit]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Yea, that and all the people that are saying the same, game tests showing 90% of clan's wins, top tier players saying that. Yea, all that indeed.

ok

[Reitrix]

As far as i can tell, the reason people seem to do better in the Clan 'mechs on a personal level has more to do with general PuG tactics.

As it stands, both teams will find their favorite rock, and be content to poke at whatever they can see at extreme range.
Given the Longer burn times, its easier to get at least *some* damage on trarget, same with the Burst ACs, if you miss the initial shot, you can still adjust and maybe get at leats some damage back.

The longer base ranges on the Clan Weapons means you're also doing more damage before the Range Dropoff neuters the output.

Of course, this is all in the PuG queue, unorganized play.

The thing is, Clan 'Mechs are basically all Yen-Lo-Wangs. You take out an Arm or ST and you remove most of their weapons. Learn to nuke Arms/STs. Especially Novas. Timber Wolves have these nice A1 style targets on their STs when they run LRMs.

TL;DR, LEARN TO PLAY.

[DaZur]

Reitrix, on 04 September 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

As far as i can tell, the reason people seem to do better in the Clan 'mechs on a personal level has more to do with general PuG tactics.

As it stands, both teams will find their favorite rock, and be content to poke at whatever they can see at extreme range.
Given the Longer burn times, its easier to get at least *some* damage on trarget, same with the Burst ACs, if you miss the initial shot, you can still adjust and maybe get at leats some damage back.

The longer base ranges on the Clan Weapons means you're also doing more damage before the Range Dropoff neuters the output.

Of course, this is all in the PuG queue, unorganized play.

The thing is, Clan 'Mechs are basically all Yen-Lo-Wangs. You take out an Arm or ST and you remove most of their weapons. Learn to nuke Arms/STs. Especially Novas. Timber Wolves have these nice A1 style targets on their STs when they run LRMs.

TL;DR, LEARN TO PLAY.

Your a little backwards...

IS mech pilots actually do better at peek-a-boo than Clan because their burn-time is lesser (not even mentioning the fact that IS front-loaded AC solution better fits peek-a-boo than Clans...

Yes, Clan range nets more damage, but then again unless the target is a stationary dolt, that Clan range damage is spread like Mary Jo Rotten-Crotch on prom night.

Edited by DaZur, 04 September 2014 - 11:32 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

DaZur, on 04 September 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Your a little backwards...

IS mech pilots actually do better at peek-a-boo than Clan because their burn-time is lesser (not even mentioning the fact that IS front-loaded AC solution better fits peek-a-boo than Clans...

Yes, Clan range nets more damage, but then again unless the target is a stationary dolt, that clan range damage is spread like Mary Jo Rotten-Crotch on prom night.

True, but I have come to notice Clan warriors are much better at walking in reverse than I am!

[DaZur]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 September 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

True, but I have come to notice Clan warriors are much better at walking in reverse than I am!

Clearly a case of inferior IS transmissions and or poor linkage lubrication....

[Marmon Rzohr]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

I'm actually glad I saved my money regarding the clans. I got to toy around with them on the last PST and I was sincerely underwhelmed by them. They were definitely "cool" but nothing special. They're exactly what we had before their release, just different stats and colors.

I regularly eat Dires and timbers for lunch with my Misery. So I don't see them as "op", unfortunately Russ stated "the analytics scream OP" so that's where we're headed because that's PGI's latest audience

I think you'll find a lot of people bought Clan mechs because they have been waiting to play them for a long time are trueborn warriors.

I for instance didn't have the faintest idea how they would work in terms of gameplay, in fact, I thought the Timber Wolf would turn out underwhelming due to too little free tonnage compared to the meta mechs of the time.

DaZur, on 04 September 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Your a little backwards...

IS mech pilots actually do better at peek-a-boo than Clan because their burn-time is lesser (not even mentioning the fact that IS front-loaded AC solution better fits peek-a-boo than Clans...

Yes, Clan range nets more damage, but then again unless the target is a stationary dolt, that Clan range damage is spread like Mary Jo Rotten-Crotch on prom night.

The problem is that the recent PPC nerfs have left projectile weapons in a bit of a weak position in the meta so that advantage doesn't matter so much.

Clan lasers do so much damage in the proper configuration that they are just overpowering other build options. The issue wasn't so prevalent before the PPC and JJ nerfs when jumpsniping still ruled the roost.

This is why, I personally, am glad to see the coming laser nerfs.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 04 September 2014 - 11:53 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 September 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

True, but I have come to notice Clan warriors are much better at walking in reverse than I am!

well every time I saw you in reverse, you tended to melt shortly thereafter!

[Reitrix]

DaZur, on 04 September 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Your a little backwards...

IS mech pilots actually do better at peek-a-boo than Clan because their burn-time is lesser (not even mentioning the fact that IS front-loaded AC solution better fits peek-a-boo than Clans...

Yes, Clan range nets more damage, but then again unless the target is a stationary dolt, that Clan range damage is spread like Mary Jo Rotten-Crotch on prom night.

Well yeah ... Provided they were able to hit targets with their superior IS FLD AC

[WarHippy]

Viges, on 04 September 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

I posted the scores that I got at the day I bought Nova. These are good scores for me. I'm doing better with clan mechs than in is ones. And I have already said that. You can measure something by trying it and comparing.

But I guess people like you just dont care. They spam forums with uhavenoproofs and all that.

Yes, but your personal anecdote is no more a measure of balance than my personal anecdote. Posting arbitrary pics of a few games you as an individual did "well" is unhelpful and irrelevant. Personally I don't think there is enough data for the devs to be making big sweeping changes like they are, and I would have left things as they were at least until they finished releasing all of the Clan mechs for c-bills and only then making small adjustments as needed. The thing you miss is that I do care, but I also care about maintaining enjoyable gameplay without the chaos of giant pendulum swinging changes.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Ghost Badger, on 04 September 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

After jumping into the Trial Nova, I managed to average 600 damage a match between 9 games. Without double heatsinks or the heat skills maxed out, I can only imagine how much more dangerous it could be. Granted, I've also been working on rocking Clan 'mechs in my favorite Firebrand build...so I'm not complaining...but I did seem to rack up damage much easier in the Nova.

I didn't try the trial Kitfox, as it doesn't have ECM. It'd be like basing my opinion of IS 'mechs off of a Raven-4X.

Son... Clan mechs only HAVE dubs.

[Viges]

WarHippy, on 04 September 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

Personally I don't think there is enough data for the devs to be making big sweeping changes like they are, and I would have left things as they were at least until they finished releasing all of the Clan mechs for c-bills and only then making small adjustments as needed.

Anecdoticaly they are doing pretty much exactly this. KitFox - cerll nerf. Nova - cerml nerf (most likely).

But we dont know what the final changes will be tomorrow.

Btw they did 2 tests on live servers clans vs is, tournament, almost a day on test server and they are in touch with some high tier players. They have a lot of data actually.

[Sorbic]

Mott, on 04 September 2014 - 06:17 AM, said:

There is no need for assault class ppcs!

You should be able to do just fine with hunting ppcs.

Nice.

[Sandpit]

DaZur, on 04 September 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Your a little backwards...

IS mech pilots actually do better at peek-a-boo than Clan because their burn-time is lesser (not even mentioning the fact that IS front-loaded AC solution better fits peek-a-boo than Clans...

Yes, Clan range nets more damage, but then again unless the target is a stationary dolt, that Clan range damage is spread like Mary Jo Rotten-Crotch on prom night.

they also tend to forget that in that "90% wins" statistic, IS got more kills

[Mott]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

they also tend to forget that in that "90% wins" statistic, IS got more kills

True?

Puzzled.