61 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

2.3 million cbills for upgrading to endo and DHS

That doesn't sound like much but it actually costs more than some mechs. That means for some lights and mediums (and maybe a couple of heavies) you're paying more for an upgrade than you are for the mech itself.

I propose scaling the upgrade cost according to weight (or at least weight class) so that lighter mechs are able to be customized fro a smaller cost than an assault mech.

[Carrie Harder]

The question is, where to set the baseline?

[Artgathan]

Endo and Ferro do scale. I agree with making the rest scale as well though.

[Clit Beastwood]

Don't you guys, especially you sandpit, have enough cbills that this should never matter again?

[Deathlike]

Carrie Harder, on 04 September 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

The question is, where to set the baseline?

Easy. Start @ 700k. Max on an Atlas would be 1.5m. Increments 50k per 5 ton (10k per ton).

I'll have to dbl check my math, but that's where one would need to start.

Edit:
Quick table for people to visualize

 20t =  700k
 30t =  800k
 40t =  900k
 50t = 1000k
 60t = 1100k
 70t = 1200k
 80t = 1300k
 90t = 1400k
100t = 1500k

Edited by Deathlike, 04 September 2014 - 02:49 PM.

[Artgathan]

Fierostetz, on 04 September 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Don't you guys, especially you sandpit, have enough cbills that this should never matter again?

Aye, but the new players don't. Essentially the 1.5 million for DHS is a tax to be payed on 99.99% of mech builds, forcing new players to be "have nots" for just a little while longer.

[Clit Beastwood]

Artgathan, on 04 September 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Aye, but the new players don't. Essentially the 1.5 million for DHS is a tax to be payed on 99.99% of mech builds, forcing new players to be "have nots" for just a little while longer.

I get your point, BUT - they get trial mechs that'll earn cbills way faster than we did. SHS lights that move 80kph? Have fun new mechwarrior!

[Artgathan]

Fierostetz, on 04 September 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

I get your point, BUT - they get trial mechs that'll earn cbills way faster than we did. SHS lights that move 80kph? Have fun new mechwarrior!

Errr... The cadet bonus is a flat rate paid out to the tune of 7.4 million c-bills over 25 matches (also, all players that had more than 25 matches when the cadet bonus was implemented were given 7.4 million, no questions asked). The trial mechs don't "earn cbills faster". If anything the actual mechs earn them slower because they're terrible builds being driven by new pilots...

And don't even get started about prices for a "viable" new light. 3 million chassis + 4 million XL + 1.5 million DHS... jeez...

[ShinobiHunter]

Nevermind, disregard the ****** comment. I gotta learn to quit posting when I've been up for 18 hours...

Edited by ShinobiHunter, 05 September 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[Sandpit]

Fierostetz, on 04 September 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

Don't you guys, especially you sandpit, have enough cbills that this should never matter again?

which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the suggestion and believe it or not, not everyone has that much in cbills.

So you're ok with an upgrade costing more than an entire mech it's being placed on? That sounds like a good economy to you?


That would be the equivalent to me buying a new car for 20k and then having to spend another 30-40k just for a few upgrades.

[Deathlike]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the suggestion and believe it or not, not everyone has that much in cbills.

So you're ok with an upgrade costing more than an entire mech it's being placed on? That sounds like a good economy to you?


That would be the equivalent to me buying a new car for 20k and then having to spend another 30-40k just for a few upgrades.

DHS is literally the cost of the Locust-3M that it is needed on. That's even before we factor in the crazy cost of the XL engine to go with it (which is the cost of the mech+DHS+then some).

[Bishop Steiner]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

2.3 million cbills for upgrading to endo and DHS

That doesn't sound like much but it actually costs more than some mechs. That means for some lights and mediums (and maybe a couple of heavies) you're paying more for an upgrade than you are for the mech itself.

I propose scaling the upgrade cost according to weight (or at least weight class) so that lighter mechs are able to be customized fro a smaller cost than an assault mech.

Endo and ferro is scaled. Artemis if anything would need to scale to the Launcher. All mechs start with a base 10 SHS/DHS so those should be the same...but any non engine maybe scaling would work.

[Sandpit]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 September 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Endo and ferro is scaled. Artemis if anything would need to scale to the Launcher. All mechs start with a base 10 SHS/DHS so those should be the same...but any non engine maybe scaling would work.

perhaps, but the cost of overhauling a 20-ton mech shouldn't be the same as a 100-ton assault regardless

[Bishop Steiner]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

perhaps, but the cost of overhauling a 20-ton mech shouldn't be the same as a 100-ton assault regardless

to a degree. Some things are common cost. The ones with the greatest variety in non common cost, Endo and Ferro already do cost different.

[Tezcatli]

I agree! Even if it's on a small percentage. It should scale to the size of the mech. A double heat sink unit on an Atlas couldn't possibly fit in a Locust!

I think scale was sacrificed for sake of simplicity. By that same logic 20 points of armor on an Atlas should not equal the same weight as a Locust. As armor on an Atlas should be covering a bigger surface area. When I brought this up in a stream. They said I shouldn't think too hard. But I can't help it. I'm that kind of nerd. o-o;

I doubt they'll make any changes. People have been paying full price for things up to this point and they likely won't divert resources for such a fix.

[Deathlike]

Tezcatli, on 04 September 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

I doubt they'll make any changes. People have been paying full price for things up to this point and they likely won't divert resources for such a fix.

You mean, they won't change the values to reduce the C-bill sink involved.

[Sandpit]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 September 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

to a degree. Some things are common cost. The ones with the greatest variety in non common cost, Endo and Ferro already do cost different.

any way you cut it, it doesn't take the same amount of raw material to produce these kind of upgrades for a Locust as it does to produce them for an Atlas.

It would also be a way to entice players to take those lighter mechs as well if their upgrade and maintenance costs were smaller.

Deathlike, on 04 September 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

You mean, they won't change the values to reduce the C-bill sink involved.

Well not for 1 page of support. Now if this sticks to a constructive thread and hits 20, 30, 40 pages? Then it has a slim chance at least

[Deathlike]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 07:35 PM, said:

any way you cut it, it doesn't take the same amount of raw material to produce these kind of upgrades for a Locust as it does to produce them for an Atlas.

It would also be a way to entice players to take those lighter mechs as well if their upgrade and maintenance costs were smaller.


Well not for 1 page of support. Now if this sticks to a constructive thread and hits 20, 30, 40 pages? Then it has a slim chance at least

Well, I could actually try to create an interesting discussion.

I remember in MW2 Mercs, such upgrades came at a fixed cost. While it makes little to no sense on a cost/balance perspective, it was much easier to code back then.

Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous are based on tonnage based formulas... so I ask here is "why not" for DHS?

Artemis cost-scale reasoning should actually apply to the upgrade itself... the launchers+ammo are the only things that are at a constant price anyways (and are shared between mechs with Artemis equipped).

Edited by Deathlike, 04 September 2014 - 07:40 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

Sandpit, on 04 September 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the suggestion and believe it or not, not everyone has that much in cbills.

So you're ok with an upgrade costing more than an entire mech it's being placed on? That sounds like a good economy to you?


That would be the equivalent to me buying a new car for 20k and then having to spend another 30-40k just for a few upgrades.

Well, buy a 20k car and install the biggest engine that will fit, additional cooling, a lighter chassis, etc. these aren't minor things dood

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 04 September 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

Well, I could actually try to create an interesting discussion.

I remember in MW2 Mercs, such upgrades came at a fixed cost. While it makes little to no sense on a cost/balance perspective, it was much easier to code back then.

Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous are based on tonnage based formulas... so I ask here is "why not"?

So, for arguments sakes, a 100 ton mech mounting 10 DHS should cost more to retrofit than a 50 ton mech mounting 19?

Because you see, the number of heatsinks ARE the raw material. ALL have to have 10 base. So the base 10 should cost the same, PERIOD. Any extra should add to the refit cost, which, technically they do as part of their purchase price.

And again, basing Artemis off of a MEchs tonnage, instead of the Launcher, makes ZERO sense.