32 replies to this topic

[Silentcrow75]

Hello I'm a new player and i'm enjoying the game alot! Well i was wondering if this build of a hunchback-4sp is good and well if it's viable for a sniper support role. Any comments, critiques, and help is really appreciated. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0d6fd1f59ab85dc

[Tastian]

That will be EXTREMELY hot. And slow. And that's alot of lrm ammo for 2 LRM5.

[n r g]

Silentcrow75, on 04 September 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Hello I'm a new player and i'm enjoying the game alot! Well i was wondering if this build of a hunchback-4sp is good and well if it's viable for a sniper support role. Any comments, critiques, and help is really appreciated. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0d6fd1f59ab85dc

lol, 17% heat efficiency.

No, to put it bluntly, that's a horrible build.

Since I am a great guy, I will just help you and save you time.

This is a great sniper, though you will have to do 2 + 2 when you fire the lasers and stay around 700~m for safety since it is fragile. It's perks though is that it is very fast, and will unlocked double efficiencies (Elite skill tree), it will be more heat efficient:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dc79e04d3e79f60

PPCs aren't a good decision because they are nerfed to hell right now. If you absolutely find 4erLL to hot, try 3erLL or even try putting 4 regular LL with the level 5 module to gain some range (you can probably put a faster engine or more less heatsinks since 4LL are much more heat efficient than 4erLL).

Just remember to fire 2 + 2 and only alpha very minimally at specific times (very rare)

Here's the 4LL variant:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ff3233524a00cf4

Edited by E N E R G Y, 04 September 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[HlynkaCG]

Tastian, on 04 September 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

That will be EXTREMELY hot. And slow. And that's alot of lrm ammo for 2 LRM5.

I wouldn't worry too much about the speed (stock engine is fine IMO) but I would definitely swap half half of that ammo for Heatsinks and consider downgrading the ER PPCs to standard PPCs.

[HlynkaCG]

E N E R G Y, on 04 September 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

lol, 17% heat efficiency.

No, to put it bluntly, that's a horrible build.

Since I am a great guy, I will just help you and save you time...

The build you linked to is A: the wrong variant (4P vice 4SP) and B: Highly situational, which makes it absolute crap for a newbie in the solo queue.

ETA
LoL at a hunchie with a XL engine and 4 pts of rear armor. That build takes some balls and I say that a guy who drives a locust on a regular basis.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 04 September 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[n r g]

HlynkaCG, on 04 September 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

The build you linked to is A: the wrong variant (4P vice 4SP) and B: Highly situational, which makes it absolute crap for noobs or in solo queue. Lol at the hunchie with XL engine and 4 pts of rear armor.

Only bad players show their rear side to mechs. It by situational, you mean having a "good team", than yes, it is situational.

And the XL is fine. 90+ kph and a mech that small, and weapons that do damage at 700m + ; you wouldn't even be able to hit me at that range and you would miss every PPC/AC shot will I open CT you within 30seconds. GG.

I'll happily play that hunchback against any of your mediums and show you how potent it is, it was one of the primary mechs that CSJ ran in RHoD premier division that basically destroyed any other medium (apart from a brawling griffin, which on a small map, would be dominant).

You'll notice the more elite players tend to lower rear armor, take less gauss ammo, lower the leg armor a bit, and value speed much more than the casual pub player (who overstocks on ammo, takes standard engines with no attention to speed, wastes full armor on every component yet never shields, turns around 180 showing rear torsos in mid battle due to poor map awareness).

*cough*

Edited by E N E R G Y, 04 September 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[HlynkaCG]

E N E R G Y, on 04 September 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Only bad players show their rear side to mechs. It by situational, you mean having a "good team", than yes, it is situational.

And the XL is fine. 90+ kph and a mech that small, and weapons that do damage at 700m + ; you wouldn't even be able to hit me at that range and you would miss every PPC/AC shot will I open CT you within 30seconds. GG.

I'll happily play that hunchback against any of your mediums and show you how potent it is, it was one of the primary mechs that CSJ ran in RHoD premier division that basically destroyed any other medium (apart from a brawling griffin, which on a small map, would be dominant).

You'll notice the more elite players tend to lower rear armor, take less gauss ammo, lower the leg armor a bit, and value speed much more than the casual pub player (who overstocks on ammo, takes standard engines with no attention to speed, wastes full armor on every component yet never shields, turns around 180 showing rear torsos in mid battle due to poor map awareness).

*cough*

If you include inexperienced players and players on poorly coordinated teams (IE pugs) in your list of "Bad Players" I agree. That said, you seem to have forgotten that you are posting in the NEW PLAYER HELP section of the forums.

In solo queue you would be quickly overrun by an opportunistic light pilot such as myself. Pro-Tip: If a lolcust or trollmando can one-shot you, you are probably going to have a bad time.

[990Dreams]

I never did like the 4SP. If you do use it always stay at a long range.

If you must, here is a 4SP build that suits your needs. For one, you needed to up the size of your LRM volleys per launcher. ER Large Lasers are shorter ranged than PPCs but are still good for longer ranged combat. The build runs cooler as well. I'd recommend taking a cool shot or two.

Although more expensive, this Mech build (SHD-5M) offers much more if you can get the hang of it. It has missile, ballistic, and laser capabilities and functions well at long to long/medium ranges (about 720 meters). And, it has jump jets. The disadvantage is that you have an XL engine, which occupies the shoulders and makes you more vulnerable. At long ranges, this shouldn't be a major problem. The Mech can function well to 180m, at which point the LRMs (a major asset) become unusable since their minimum range is 180m.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

This is the -4SP I run currently. It's a lot of fun, with a decent mid-range poke for what is essentially a brawler. Swap out the LL's for ERLL's if you like, but bear in mind you'll run hotter.

[n r g]

HlynkaCG, on 04 September 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

If you include inexperienced players and players on poorly coordinated teams (IE pugs) in your list of "Bad Players" I agree. That said, you seem to have forgotten that you are posting in the NEW PLAYER HELP section of the forums.

In solo queue you would be quickly overrun by an opportunistic light pilot such as myself. Pro-Tip: If a lolcust or trollmando can one-shot you, you are probably going to have a bad time.

I understand that it is new player help, but I believe in getting new players on the right track from the beginning, rather than give me wierd newbie builds that they will use for months and then outgrow and wonder why players with longer range/better aim are ****** them.

[Koniving]

A few ideas. I'm under the assumption that you want to get this before you can afford a new engine.

Idea 1: 2 LRM-10s + 4 ML. This is particularly great when you take off the "training wheels" of Armlock and make good use of left CTRL for precision arm aiming (remembering to shift-toggle armlock when dealing with fast enemies or for that nail everything right in shot.) It's meant to operate on its own, but teamed up with an LRM boat or a brawler you can still provide reasonable support.

Idea 2: 2 LL or ER LL (optional), 2 ML, 2 Streaks. This rig is meant for supporting larger team mates that are 64.8 kph or slower. You may want to slightly buff the rear armor for it.

Idea 3: 2 PPCs and 3 ML. The 2 PPCs are attuned to one arm for good convergence and side-peeking. The 3 ML can easily work together to get a decent 15 damage on a target that is too close. The lack of any 'humps' makes your side torsos a little bit smaller.

5 SPL with 2 SRM-6s is also a good idea, but I recommend waiting on that until after upgrading to a 250 or higher engine.

To note: This 4P Hunchback has 320 armor and a 200 rated standard engine (with a vastly different pro-hunch armor config). 2 PPCs, 6 ML.


This 4G has a 275 rated XL engine, LB-10x, 3 SPL, 2 MGs and is treated like a Clan mech. (N/m the beginning, video editing error!) This I wouldn't recommend trying right off the bat, however. It takes a good bit of practice.

Edited by Koniving, 04 September 2014 - 06:41 PM.

[InspectorG]

HlynkaCG, on 04 September 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

ETA
LoL at a hunchie with a XL engine and 4 pts of rear armor. That build takes some balls and I say that a guy who drives a locust on a regular basis.

I nominate this comment of the day!

[Koniving]

For Energy's post it is definitely the wrong variant but most likely the player hasn't already bought a 4SP. Never the less it can be replicated in a 4SP.

Normally I disagree with ENERGY, but not this time in terms of armor (if anything the RT rear isn't low enough. Funny I know).

On the takes some balls comment, this Hunchback 4G which you can watch in a chase cam has an XL 275 engine and 2 points rear armor on the RT, as all my "Hunched" Hunchbacks run (including the one in the previous XL 275 vid as it's the same design). It's almost impossible to damage a Hunchback's hunch-side right rear torso due to hitbox design (the right rear behind the hunch doesn't register hits and when it does it registers front torso, below that point in an area the size of a Hunchback's fist with a triangle drooping off the side) is the "right rear torso" and most people don't even know about it.


(Because the score isn't included in Lordred's chase cam of me)


There's absolutely no reason not to run 46 armor on the Hunchside of a Hunchback. For it to even become yellow (which means less than 1 damage on the armor due to having only 2 armor [dark orange would be 50%] is extremely rare.

Note this only applies to every Hunchback EXCEPT the 4SP (and the 4J for some reason).

Edited by Koniving, 04 September 2014 - 07:23 PM.

[Koniving]

Oh and for some reason I forgot (it's been a hectic day what with talking to the parent of a kid that broke my window) but better late than never: Welcome to MWO and here's a pat on the back for doing a little bit of research.

[n r g]

Koniving, on 04 September 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

For Energy's post it is definitely the wrong variant but most likely the player hasn't already bought a 4SP. Never the less it can be replicated in a 4SP.

Normally I disagree with ENERGY, but not this time in terms of armor (if anything the RT rear isn't low enough. Funny I know).

On the takes some balls comment, this Hunchback 4G which you can watch in a chase cam has an XL 275 engine and 2 points rear armor on the RT, as all my "Hunched" Hunchbacks run (including the one in the previous XL 275 vid as it's the same design). It's almost impossible to damage a Hunchback's hunch-side right torso due to hitbox design (the right rear behind the hunch doesn't register hits and when it does it registers front torso, below that point in an area the size of a Hunchback's fist with a triangle drooping off the side) is the "right rear torso" and most people don't even know about it.


(Because the score isn't included in Lordred's chase cam of me)


There's absolutely no reason not to run 46 armor on the Hunchside of a Hunchback. For it to even become yellow (which means less than 1 damage on the armor due to having only 2 armor [dark orange would be 50%] is extremely rare.

Note this only applies to every Hunchback EXCEPT the 4SP (and the 4J for some reason).

yep

[Koniving]

(Totally didn't have to quote the entire thing for that. )

[JC Daxion]

4SP Is one of my favorite mechs.... Here are some builds you can try... they do need a STD250, but they are pretty cheap, so it would not take long to save for one. If this is your first HBK, i would recomend buying a 250STD before buying the other variants.. HBK's really wake up with this upgrade. Heck i played in Trail mechs long enough to buy all 3 and some upgrades and engine.. before i went to my own mech. (banked 100k XP in a trial dragon , would not necessarily recommend it, but it worked for me)


A popular build, good for medium range combat
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1c5c12a4c13d862



Faster moving light hunter

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3d9942407ab3bcb




Something down the road to try with an XL-275

Long range skirmisher/Support the idea of this mech is to snip, and support your lance from lights, It runs hot, to lessen that you can swap to normal LL's instead,


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9ba41dcbe719dc8

Or drop 3 ML's and 1/2 ton ams for 3 SL's and add a couple more heat sinks

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1c52fd9cb675af1


to get the XL275, You might want to pick up one of the 55 ton mechs, Wolverine, griffin or shadow hawk ya spend a bit more, but get a mech too! other models of them come with an STD275, which can be worked into these builds as well.

the 4SP is the hunchless HBK, so you won't be loosing the hump and dying if you play right. You can still die from a side torso blow out, but it is not as common as the others. I would not recommend a XL in the other models.

Edited by JC Daxion, 04 September 2014 - 08:05 PM.

[Yelland]

Welcome to MWO

Thought I would provide feedback based on your original load out. There are considerations that may help you when thinking about any load out you design.

I first consider my primary weapon system and build around that. In your original build you set it up to have two primary systems, meaning: lots of LRM Ammo + 2 ER-PPC.

Your primary system should get all the attention and the secondary/tertiary systems are “nice to have”.

Heat
In your build you have a smurfy cooling efficiency of 17% that is unmanageable in pretty much all situations. Even for one ERPPC, forget about 2. If I stripped all weapons from your build except 2xER-PPC you are still at 25%. Simply not worth it.

I would argue a 32%+ efficiency - that number is pulled from opinion really but I think 30+ is a good starting point.

Ammo
Regarding ammo for LRM. Average PUG match is probably 6-9 minutes. I figure every minute from power up, is a countdown to the end. How much can you do per minute? Subtract getting into position, selecting a viable LRM target, heat management etc.

Your 2xLRM5 does ~18 volleys or one ton of ammo per minute. Assuming you can just hold down fire the whole time – but realistically that never happens.

You won’t get off 4 tons of ammo on a 2xLRM5 setup. It's a waste of slots and an ammo explosion liability.

I feel when using LRM as a secondary weapon that 15-20 volleys per match is plenty. So with a 2xLRM5 setup I would only take one ton of ammo.

If LRM were primary, I feel better having a 20-25+ volley available per match. This is my thought process on how much to take.

Primary ER-PPC
If your primary choice is ER-PPC – build around heat sinks and add in the nice to haves as you can fit. Frankly, on a HBK I would use PPC.

I might do something like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4eebc629ae14740 (STD 215 if I had one on hand for extra speed or stick with STD200 stock)

Primary LRM
If primary is the LRM. As a starting point my thought process builds to the tubes available. Meaning, I would go for 2xLRM10 and 3-4 tons of ammo as you had in original build. 3 tons give you 27 volleys on a 2xLRM10 load out. When LRM is my primary I like to include utilities: TAG, BAP

Perhaps something like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...951d2392f7a07a9

[JC Daxion]

Yelland, on 04 September 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

Primary ER-PPC
If your primary choice is ER-PPC – build around heat sinks and add in the nice to haves as you can fit. Frankly, on a HBK I would use PPC.

One thing to take note of on this.. the normal PPC's only have 10 heat, while the ER PPC's have 15 i think.. (correct me if i am wrong)

BUT, Normal PPC's do ZERO damage under 90m, So keep that in mind when you are fighting, especially in a brawl. A good player will charge you. But as a medium, you can be faster, and keep your above your min range.

[HlynkaCG]

E N E R G Y, on 04 September 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

I understand that it is new player help, but I believe in getting new players on the right track from the beginning, rather than give me wierd newbie builds that they will use for months and then outgrow and wonder why players with longer range/better aim are ****** them.

Except that what you are calling "the right track" is not "right" per se. Especially not for someone who is new to the game. PuG play at low - mid tier ELO != RHoD premier division. Better to have him in a well rounded build that will allow him to survive a match long enough learn the game, earn CBills, and actually contribute, than to see him rage-quit after being repeatedly killed by pilots in "inferior" mechs, artillery, and sub-par team mates.

Seriously, popping silly min-max builds like yours is how I maintain my KDR.

Koniving, on 04 September 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

For Energy's post it is definitely the wrong variant but most likely the player hasn't already bought a 4SP. Never the less it can be replicated in a 4SP.

Normally I disagree with ENERGY, but not this time in terms of armor (if anything the RT rear isn't low enough. Funny I know).

Except that it is his CT that that I am looking at.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dc79e04d3e79f60

That is a very large, very important, hitbox to be covering with only 4 points of armor.

ETA:


Taken from Rainbow Unikorn's excellent thread.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 04 September 2014 - 11:22 PM.