33 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

LRM30 with buttloads of ammo + 2 Medlas. Fastest XL engine you got.

Easiest way to level it.

[Escef]

Carrioncrows, on 04 September 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

Because at 451 meters it drops to 5 dmg a shot. (or maybe 7, I forget, but it's a massive dmg drop)

That's news to me. Last I heard damage drop off was linear from full damage at teh edge of optimum range to zero at twice that. So, at 451 meters it should be doing 10*(449/450) damage.

Do you have a source for this very odd damage drop off? Is it something that has been confirmed in game?

[Escef]

As for the OP, our 2D2 build seems fine. I think the problem may be that you are playing it wrong. You need to stick with the pack, and try to help bring down bigger mechs. Let other uys grab the attention while you hit them hard. Stay near cover as best you can, just in case you get noticed. You are the knife in the back, fight like a coward.

[Kjudoon]

Well, I do know you don't want that XL if you're going to do the close range game unless you really know how to roll damage. If you don't, you need a standard engine desperate bad, ignore the Ballistics and go with energy as backup. It's lighter and will be a good backup punch.

[Carrioncrows]

Escef, on 04 September 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:

That's news to me. Last I heard damage drop off was linear from full damage at teh edge of optimum range to zero at twice that. So, at 451 meters it should be doing 10*(449/450) damage.

Do you have a source for this very odd damage drop off? Is it something that has been confirmed in game?

The Dev's and Smurfy show it listed as a linear drop but test it. There is a massive drop in damage just going from 449 - 451.

Try it.

A single AC5 will out damage an AC10 just because of this damage drop. Most of this is simply because of the map, next time you are in a map measure the ranges of popular cover spots to cover spots. How often is it that you are in a cover spot within 450m range of an enemy mech.

There simply isn't. All typical cover spots are either way closer than 450m or upwards of 540m. It's why the Clan UAC10 has such a massive performance upgrade over the the AC10. not because of the ultra fire mode but because when they shoot their rounds are doing full damage.

[Escef]

Carrioncrows, on 04 September 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

The Dev's and Smurfy show it listed as a linear drop but test it. There is a massive drop in damage just going from 449 - 451.

Try it.

I'm gonna' have to. I use the AC10 on a few mechs, and I've never noticed this before (not mechs I use frequently, so if you are right I just simply never noticed in the chaos that is combat). If you are correct in this I will document it and make sure it gets brought to people's attention. (Email to support, tweeting Russ and/or Niko, maybe pestering some of the NGNG guys. I mean, seriously, if this is a thing it needs to get fixed.)

Edited by Escef, 04 September 2014 - 08:21 PM.

[Sandpit]

I have good luck with these builds
SHD-2D2
SHD-2D2
SHD-2D2
SHD-2D2

just depends on how you like to play OP

[Carrioncrows]

Escef, on 04 September 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

I'm gonna' have to. I use the AC10 on a few mechs, and I've never noticed this before (not mechs I use frequently, so if you are right I just simply never noticed in the chaos that is combat). If you are correct in this I will document it and make sure it gets brought to people's attention. (Email to support, tweeting Russ and/or Niko, maybe pestering some of the NGNG guys. I mean, seriously, if this is a thing it needs to get fixed.)

The easiest fix is to simply give the IS AC10 a range boost to 500-520 meters so you can use it as a medium range weapon without being compelled to run into brawling range to do full damage.

[Macster16]

Carrioncrows, on 04 September 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

Because at 451 meters it drops to 5 dmg a shot. (or maybe 7, I forget, but it's a massive dmg drop)

Unless you are able to stay within that 450m range the entire time while you are firing you are simply paying a lot of tonnage and space for what equals an ac5.

And how rare is it that you stay within 270-450m range. There are very few places where you can even hit the enemy mech within 450m range from cover to cover, most of it is over or under. And if it's under 270m range you might as well use an AC20 as it's deals alot more damage.

I find the AC10 is still effective under 270 or above 450 and I have NO problem hitting baddies at close ranges - don't know how you came to this conclusion. As for use an AC20 instead? That's a silly idea when you consider that equipping an AC20 most often than not means altering one's build entirely to fit around the AC20 (need to use STD engine), especially in this case since we're talking about SHawks. It's not like you can just swap the 2 out without having to drastically alter your build.

EDIT: Hmm, I guess I'll have to test that >450 range dmg scaling. Can't say it seems like it acts this way from personal experience, but I haven't tested it in a controlled environment.

Edited by Macster16, 04 September 2014 - 08:33 PM.

[Carrie Harder]

Carrioncrows, on 04 September 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

The easiest fix is to simply give the IS AC10 a range boost to 500-520 meters so you can use it as a medium range weapon without being compelled to run into brawling range to do full damage.

I'd like to see its old projectile speed restored so it's more practical to use at those ranges. :\ Right now it's like a Mooninite Quad Laser.

Edited by Carrie Harder, 04 September 2014 - 08:36 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Macster16, on 04 September 2014 - 08:30 PM, said:

Where did you hear it takes such a considerable dip in dmg after 450dmg? Looking at the dmg chart, it looks like it drops off in a linear fashion like any other weapon.

I find the AC10 is still effective under 270 or above 450 and I have NO problem hitting baddies at close ranges - don't know how you came to this conclusion. As for use an AC20 instead? That's a silly idea when you consider that equipping an AC20 most often than not means altering one's build entirely to fit around the AC20 (need to use STD engine), especially in this case since we're talking about SHawks. It's not like you can just swap the 2 out without having to drastically alter your build.

This was also back when ballistics had x3 maximum range and the AC20 out damaged the AC10 past 450m.

But it still doesn't fix the issue with the AC10 almost always doing less than full damage anywhere but brawling range.

[Escef]

Carrioncrows, on 04 September 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

The easiest fix is to simply give the IS AC10 a range boost to 500-520 meters so you can use it as a medium range weapon without being compelled to run into brawling range to do full damage.

If it has non-linear damage drop off than that won't fix it. At any rate, I'll check this out when I get home from work.

[Escef]

Ok, AC10 at 495 meters should do 9 damage. After going into the testing grounds, I pumped 5 rounds into the arm of a CPLT-A1, which has 40 armor on the arm. Those five shots stripped the armor away and did structural damage. If it had been dealing 8 damage, all it would have accomplished was stripping the armor completely off, leaving the structure intact. If, as Carrioncrows stated, it was doing 7 or less, there would still be armor.

[kapusta11]

Close range builds are bad for public games. Try this one SHD-2D2, or LRMs + LLs build shown above.

Edited by kapusta11, 05 September 2014 - 12:57 AM.