237 replies to this topic

[Ph30nix]

Love the Numbers, i do have one thing to say

You say that you are learning towards 12 vs 10 but please take one big huge massive thing into consideration

LIGHT FUSION ENGINES WILL BE INTRODUCED EVENTUALLY!

that one piece of equipment on IS heavies and assualts will make a massive difference, will give IS heavies either an extra 10kph or an extra 6-8 tons of weight, and will give IS assaults almost 8-12 extra tons of weight to work with.
Love to see how matches would end up if every IS assault/heavy was able to pack an extra weapon or two and go alittle faster......

[Ultimax]

I suppose I don't even need to ask, but Kiiyor have you considered trying to use your data to see how closely it correlates with the devs on their T1 through T5 rankings of IS mechs?

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 October 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

Have you looked at matches where one team lacks ECM mechs? I know it's impossible to get accurate statistics, because there's no telling whether any ECM-capable mech actually carried ECM. But it would still give some indication, certainly?

[SaltBeef]

Your going to have to redo this all over again after the IS mechs get Buffed.

[Iqfish]

So can we get a completely new thread for post-quirk values?


:]

[Ultimax]

Iqfish, on 17 November 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

So can we get a completely new thread for post-quirk values?
:]

He would need to basically start from scratch, and begin collecting all new EOMs for the new data.


He might be working on it, but it will likely take a while and really with this level of effort I'd be surprised if reaching out to PGI directly to see if they'd be willing to provide him with some data dumps wouldn't work.

They should support his science!

[Mcgral18]

Over a year ago now...
Do the stats still hold up?

With Tier 1/PSR MatchMaking, brand new players should be reduced, to prevent bringing scores down significantly, and there have been a couple balance touches since then.

Then there's the Quirkening.


Ember would no longer hold the top spot, and Cheetah would probably be a not insignificant bit higher than the FS9-S/A.

Your Awesome probably wouldn't stay at the top, with the quirked Banshees and BattleMasters (dem mounts), against the Whales and quirked Omnis. Assuming you get more EOM data.



Still collecting Data? I think I sent one batch in, months ago. Perhaps an anniversary thread; condensed.

[Kiiyor]

Mcgral18, on 10 October 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:

Over a year ago now...
Do the stats still hold up?

With Tier 1/PSR MatchMaking, brand new players should be reduced, to prevent bringing scores down significantly, and there have been a couple balance touches since then.

Then there's the Quirkening.


Ember would no longer hold the top spot, and Cheetah would probably be a not insignificant bit higher than the FS9-S/A.

Your Awesome probably wouldn't stay at the top, with the quirked Banshees and BattleMasters (dem mounts), against the Whales and quirked Omnis. Assuming you get more EOM data.



Still collecting Data? I think I sent one batch in, months ago. Perhaps an anniversary thread; condensed.

Funny you should comment - I've been collecting for the last 2 months or so, preparing a comparison analysis before the 'great rebalance' drops. Haven't checked the data inbox for a while though.

I was fairly disheartened about my SCIENCE for a while there, when my last batch (15 K matches, which I had painstakingly doublechecked and created a database for) vanished into the ether when my ever so fragile first gen SSD imploded. I lost all the data, all the spreadsheets (including my previous master sheet), the lot. My rage was palpable.

Anyhoo, if you want more stats, EOM me. Should see an addition in the next couple of weeks.

[Soldier91]

Way too much going on the in the main post but the 50% less effective trial mechs I would dispute.
I've always dropped in those in CW for a couple reasons (mostly cbills) Of course you can't expect a non skilled (heat management, movement bonus') to really stack up against an outfitted mech but when it comes to a team game that's more organized it's about putting down shots when you get them and maneuvering. If you get an enemy team out maneuver yours and getting 3-6 or more mechs firing at one mech at once it's going to go down in one volley practically. Nobody would expect any mech no matter how it's fitted to stand up to an entire combined enemy lances to not go down. A trial mech has just as much armor and effective hitpoints as a non trial mech it's the one part of mech building no one is going to skimp on and why IS really needs light fusion engines with heavier engines and weapons clans always have a high mobility and max armor compared to what an IS mech can mount before you decide what weapons go on it. Clan and light fusion engines give an effective hitpoint bonus and extends time to kill before the mech goes down. But because of focus fire and stuff even a trial mech can do fairly well if it's not the main target even though it's going to have lower DPS and less alpha's from heat and having a harder time avoiding being the main target from having less mobility not unlocking pilot skills. As players we're always going to try to find a way to stack the favor in our odds.

Edited by Soldier91, 11 October 2015 - 02:44 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Soldier91, on 11 October 2015 - 02:27 AM, said:

Way too much going on the in the main post but the 50% less effective trial mechs I would dispute.
I've always dropped in those in CW for a couple reasons (mostly cbills) Of course you can't expect a non skilled (heat management, movement bonus') to really stack up against an outfitted mech but when it comes to a team game that's more organized it's about putting down shots when you get them and maneuvering. If you get an enemy team out maneuver yours and getting 3-6 or more mechs firing at one mech at once it's going to go down in one volley practically. Nobody would expect any mech no matter how it's fitted to stand up to an entire combined enemy lances to not go down. A trial mech has just as much armor and effective hitpoints as a non trial mech it's the one part of mech building no one is going to skimp on and why IS really needs light fusion engines with heavier engines and weapons clans always have a high mobility and max armor compared to what an IS mech can mount before you decide what weapons go on it. Clan and light fusion engines give an effective hitpoint bonus and extends time to kill before the mech goes down. But because of focus fire and stuff even a trial mech can do fairly well if it's not the main target even though it's going to have lower DPS and less alpha's from heat and having a harder time avoiding being the main target from having less mobility not unlocking pilot skills. As players we're always going to try to find a way to stack the favor in our odds.

The whole (C) mech thing doesn't hold up like it used to because of champ mechs strengthening the (C) gene pool.

However, after that science was run, I collected more than 10k more screenshots, and the results of those were even more unflattering towards trials.

Still, this science is more than a year old, and the design of the Champ mechs has improved since then.

[Chados]

Great science-fu, Kiiyor.

I'd be interested to see post-PSR numbers.

[Davers]

OMG, even your summary was like 3 pages....

I read it all, even the many spoiler boxes. Some interesting trivia, and I would recommend it to others.

But a lot of the information is horribly out of date, and makes me wonder how relevant the data is today. For example, none of your data takes trial Clan mechs into account.

But I appreciate the mountain of work you did to present your findings to the community, and Thanks.

Edited by Davers, 11 October 2015 - 08:40 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

I want to see the stats post the addition of the latest clan 'mechs.

The ACH probably brought Clans into dominating ALL 'mech classes.

[stjobe]

Kiiyor, on 11 October 2015 - 02:20 AM, said:

I was fairly disheartened about my SCIENCE for a while there, when my last batch (15 K matches, which I had painstakingly doublechecked and created a database for) vanished into the ether when my ever so fragile first gen SSD imploded. I lost all the data, all the spreadsheets (including my previous master sheet), the lot. My rage was palpable.

Ow. I hope you take that as an incentive to use an online backup (Dropbox, Google Drive, iCloud, or any of the alternatives) or at least have another physical drive as backup.

SCIENCE is good, but good SCIENCE needs backups.

[Kiiyor]

stjobe, on 11 October 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

Ow. I hope you take that as an incentive to use an online backup (Dropbox, Google Drive, iCloud, or any of the alternatives) or at least have another physical drive as backup.

SCIENCE is good, but good SCIENCE needs backups.

Backup policy is for chumps! past Kiiyor said. Present Kiiyor wants to invent time travel not to be able to save the data, but to be able to travel back in time and give past Kiiyor a few uppercuts. That jerk was woefully naive.

I've since splurged on a NAS and a cheap 5TB external.

[stjobe]

Kiiyor, on 11 October 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Present Kiiyor wants to invent time travel not to be able to save the data, but to be able to travel back in time and give past Kiiyor a few uppercuts. That jerk was woefully naive.

Sounds like past stjobe... Luckily for present stjobe, reality already smacked past stjobe rather harshly over the head with a clue-by-four, so present stjobe don't have to wish for a time machine - at least not for this particular problem, although if you do invent one I have a few other propositions for you...

Kiiyor, on 11 October 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

I've since splurged on a NAS and a cheap 5TB external.

Good call. You'll sleep a lot better, and future Kiiyor will thank you for it when the next drive fails but doesn't take all your data with it.

Edited by stjobe, 11 October 2015 - 02:18 PM.

[Ultimax]

Kiiyor, on 11 October 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Backup policy is for chumps! past Kiiyor said. Present Kiiyor wants to invent time travel not to be able to save the data, but to be able to travel back in time and give past Kiiyor a few uppercuts. That jerk was woefully naive.

I've since splurged on a NAS and a cheap 5TB external.

Step 1) Set up a google account based on the Kiiyor identity.
Step 2) Use gmail to harvest EOM screenshots from the masses.
Step 3) Save your excel sheets in your google drive folder. Now backed up for free.
Step 4) Set up Google Photos on your PC. You should be able to backup all of the EOMs here with unlimited storage as long as they are .jpg and you choose the appropriate back up settings.

[Void Angel]

Kiiyor, on 11 October 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Backup policy is for chumps! past Kiiyor said. Present Kiiyor wants to invent time travel not to be able to save the data, but to be able to travel back in time and give past Kiiyor a few uppercuts. That jerk was woefully naive.

I've since splurged on a NAS and a cheap 5TB external.