30 replies to this topic

[Felio]

Unfortunately I have both, and I have been struggling to find something to do with the Summoner without feeling like I've deliberately gimped myself.

[The Great Unwashed]

The standard structure and---arguably---5 tons of JJs waste a lot of tonnage so you cannot fit many hard-hitting weapons and you do not have the Nova-like hard-point layout to slap on all kinds of light weaponry. The torso omni pods of the Summoner simply do not allow for the same flexibility as for the Timberwolf. You can try 5 SRM6s, but the Timberwolf can do 4 SRM6s plus 4ML....

Adding endo and adding leg-SRM hardpoints would be a nice start, plus massive torso twist to make it a brawler...

I'd be OK with the Summoner if you could go twin LBX20 or something similarly silly but now it's not really very attractive for competitive play. Might be if it were reclassified as a medium

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 08 September 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Nope, nothing I've found anyway.

[TercieI]

More damning: replace "Timberwolf" with "Stormcrow."

[The Great Unwashed]

That too... Can't recall seeing Summoners lately. Funny enough the only Golden mech I've seen so far was a Summoner. You could see the suck reflecting from almost any angle.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

ASRM30

[knight-of-ni]

I wouldn't say the Summoner is terrible, but I also can't say I'll ever pilot one again now that I've finished grinding them.
Silly me bought a Summoner to be different because I knew everyone and their grandmother would be buying a Timberwolf.

[GumbyC2C]

I like Summoners a lot. Sure you can do almost anything in a Timber Wolf that a Summoner can do but that is not the point. The key to Summoners is to not try and emulate the Timber Wolf. Play it like a Shadow Hawk and not a Victor and you will do just fine. TW gets better hardpoints and can choose to either have or not have JJs. TW is a better heavy. I think that once they get to giving the clan mechs some quirks, you will see better performance out of Summoners. Till then be creative on your loadouts and smart in your play and Summoners are just fine.

[That Dawg]

The Great Unwashed, on 08 September 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

the only Golden mech I've seen so far was a Summoner. You could see the suck reflecting from almost any angle.

ok, I made laff upon that

[fyurian]

if u see those jumpjets as beeing usefull run this
SMN-D
u can outflank, get just about anywere with the JJ & u have high firing points.

[Arctcwolf]

The summoner does need access to both FF and ES to improve weapon capacity. even then, the best build on it is still in prime form...just switch to erppc, gauss, A-LRM-20.

its a more nimble mech than a timberwolf, and in B form, runs dual AMS. in that way, its more of a support mech, hiding behind other mechs n sniping, providing LRM cover.

In lore, Wolf's Dragoons modified all clan mechs before they came to the inner sphere, so the idea that clan mechs are "stuck with what they came with" is nonsense, its just an excuse for PGI to try to make the game "fair"

[Duran Vancor]

SMN-B

4 SRM6, 1 LRM20. Not possible on a Timberwolf, since 5 missile hardpoints are needed.

That said, the Timberwolf will always be better than the Summoner. However that does not mean the Summoner is bad. Far from it. It outclasses most IS mechs and is either on par or better than the best of the best IS. I would not call that terrible at all.

[Ngamok]

Duran Vancor, on 10 September 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:

SMN-B

4 SRM6, 1 LRM20. Not possible on a Timberwolf, since 5 missile hardpoints are needed.

That said, the Timberwolf will always be better than the Summoner. However that does not mean the Summoner is bad. Far from it. It outclasses most IS mechs and is either on par or better than the best of the best IS. I would not call that terrible at all.

This is how I run my B as well.

[Mauadib]

I tend to run the D like this and I know it's something that the Timberwolf can do but having the JJ and the ballistic right under the cockpit is really nice.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eaa27a7f17a256f

[Mad Ox]

Summoner advantages according to smurfy:
- JJ's all versions
- 1 more weapon slot Has 2 TimberW has 1
- Has a few more open slots

Disadvantages
- Ferro Only no Endo to save weight Timber has both (this drives me nuts and really hurt Summoner in Battle Tech it alone would have bumped armor up to TWolf levels. and its hurting it in MWO too)
- almost 100 less armor to begin with
- 22.5 tons of free space by default vs 27.5 tons free space Technically 27.5 but 5 goes to 5 Jump Jets

But in the end Timber wolf has a little more tonnage but still goes same speed and much better Omnipod selections. Summoner is mostly arms with very little on torso's while Wolf also has good selections for Torsos. In general by default going to be a better mech in long run.

Weapon slots of each varient alone tells the tale.

Summoner Prime (3), B (5) Missile, D (6)
Timber Wolf Prime (9), C (6), (12).... 12 really?

What idiot takes a 70 ton mech and then only gives it 3 weapon slots??? with best possible being 6??? Of course as one of the oldest Omni designs ehh... would love to see some more weapon slots added to the mech though way to limited.

Edited by Mad Ox, 12 September 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Arctcwolf, on 10 September 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

The summoner does need access to both FF and ES to improve weapon capacity. even then, the best build on it is still in prime form...just switch to erppc, gauss, A-LRM-20.

Actually, if you want to see a real monster out of a summoner, remove FF, and add Endo, THAT will give the weight savings needed to slap big canons and guns on it. Due to hardwired pieces, and structure slots, you don't want both upgrades, but you definitely want Endo over FF.

[IraqiWalker]

Mad Ox, on 11 September 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

Summoner Prime (3), B (5) Missile, D (6)
Timber Wolf Prime (9), C (6), (12).... 12 really?

What idiot takes a 70 ton mech and then only gives it 3 weapon slots??? with best possible being 6??? Of course as one of the oldest Omni designs ehh... would love to see some more weapon slots added to the mech though way to limited.

One thing they can do is add more pods later one with more hardpoints, and give buff quirks to the older ones with fewer hardpoints (such heat management, or movement buffs). That way you either become very nimble with fewer hardpoints (makes sense), or slower/hotter with more hardpoints. It's what they started with the clan pods and their quirks, this would be just using the same method on more pods. Keeps with the spirit of clan mechs and equipment, without forcefully gimping them in weird ways.

[KHETTI]

I absolutely love the Summoner, i have 3 set-ups closely based on the Prime.

A.ERPPC+UAC20
B.ERPPC+UAC10+SRM6A
C.ERPPC+UAC5+SRM6A+Targeting comp.

All 3 are similar obviously but offer variations of play style, mobile hit and run heavy is the way to go, btw the UAC20 one is freaking beast if used right.

[Escef]

If you are relying on 4+ missile systems, the Summoner's lack of a recycle penalty on them is nice. The Timby-S side torso pods both come with a debuff to missile recycle and increased overheating damage.

That aside, the Summoner's anemic hardpoints lead to a very strange phenomenon. It tends to run cooler than many mechs its size, and therefor can maintain a more robust rate of fire.

[Ruccus]

I've actually had a pretty interesting time battling sniper Ravens and Kit Foxes in this build. If I see a sniper and have decent cover, I'll use that cover to block other mechs but allow the light sniper to see me (or if I get the first shot off he'll usually find me quickly). I'll just stand there and let him line up a shot while I line up my shot - I've usually got one more ERLL than the sniper plus they're recycling 10% faster thanks to the Prime right arm, and I've got a lot more armour so I'm fine with punching and counterpunching with a light sniper.

It works pretty well in long range duels against LRM boats too - the dual AMS will allow me to mitigate damage and stand in for another snipe before having to break the LRM lock. If I'm pressed in it by a brawling mech though it'll fold like a house of cards. The ERLLs run way too hot to use for brawling.