543 replies to this topic

[Torgun]

Appogee, on 08 September 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

I want to believe. Honestly I do. I may even spend another $120 chasing that dream.

But how many times have we been at this exact point, with wonderful visions painted and commitments made? And where exactly are we now?

Yeah I find it rather amazing how after a new round of promises people actually start to feel that this time it's for real, hooray! I think I'll keep believing in things only when I see they've been released, since it's still what makes sense at this point.

[Chuck B]

Appogee, on 08 September 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

Ya I'm not going to fall for it this time.. I'll check back in 6 months to see if shes still holding that ball. Many words have been spoken by the Devs over the years, I'll wait for the code to back them up.

[Xtrekker]

While I'm not entirely up on the happenings here (link from OP is down) and I didn't know anything about the IGP situation (still don't, will have to listen another time), I do appreciate that there seems to be something moving in a positive direction in the forums. I find that I will come back here every so often to try and catch up on the direction of the game, but within a few days I'll get caught up in the vitriol of the forums, which I detest. When that happens, I force myself to stop coming back to the site. I've heard plenty of people state the same. Something does need to change if they want this information portal to be of any use to this community. I'm all for more moderation to control the constant derailing of topics and perpetuation of bitterness on both sides.

Regarding expectations of PGI from the Founder's program, I absolutely felt that I wanted to buy into the game to support it, because in the beginning maybe we all heard what we wanted to hear. I think PGI was championing the IP's worth at the time, and we wanted to validate that. As such, when MWT was announced shortly after the resounding success of the program, it felt a bit like a slap in the face. Maybe that was poor timing and people keep saying PGI had nothing to do with that, so I don't know. I guess the response was unwarranted. But it did appear that way, and that feeling that our valiant surge of support was a bait-and-switch gimmick was hard to shake for a long time, at least for me. Honestly I just kind of forgot about the whole thing eventually. I guess I would liken it to making a sizable donation to a charity only to discover that perhaps a lot of your donation actually never made it to your cause. I know, it was never a "charity", but there was definitely some good will and a lot of faith in that first gesture.

For other programs, while I didn't buy into them, I don't think I would have had the same expectation. If Founder's/MWT was the charity scenario, I think I would compare subsequent programs/AUTE to the guy on the corner begging for money for food for his starving family, who instead decides to buy a pack of smokes. One of those things that you would imagine is likely to happen, but you hope it doesn't.

Now, sure, I understand that PGI is a business and they are here to make money, and if that involves branching out and stretching their resources to diversify their investments, so be it. However, I don't believe it is a sustainable practice to reap profits on the backs of your customers; rather this should be a co-partnership that allows us both (company and customer) to benefit for the longest term possible, with each party contributing openly and reasonably toward the other to make that happen. It's really lopsided at the moment, and PGI seriously needs to pick up their end of this relationship if they wish to see a continued future with this (or any) franchise.

Recent comments made by PGI staff in response to the overwhelmingly negative backlash were of concern to me, however. Multiple comments were made that seemed to suggest that the responsibility of the future of the game depends entirely on how much we as the customers intend to support it. Yes, of course the game needs to make money to continue, that's obvious. But the way those posts were worded it came off like we haven't been supporting them enough. It was like, "Well if you would buy stuff, maybe we could finally get some of this done!" I know that's not the exact language, or probably the meaning (how dense would you have to be to offer that to your community). But my reaction to those replies made me feel as though the hundreds I've spent so far weren't valued, and this is the most I've EVER spent on a game. By that sense, if they are making a public, direct correlation to revenue equals content, then Overlord and Clan purchasers have every right to call them on it.

Apologies if I went off topic. I appreciate the spirit of the thread and the civility shown so far.

[Seth Stin Exoría]

I do not post often but I like to make a point when I do, MWO or Mech Warrior Online is based on an almost 30 year Sci-Fi history and has attracted people like me and as such have become immersed in it, I myself for over 15 years.
I love PVP and the PVP experience in this game means ton for ton a skilled pilot will kill an unskilled one regardless of weapons (no matter how hard they try to stop this). You cannot nerf skill unless you cut of my hands.
That is why I play, to be within the Mechs that I only saw in drawings and to relish the PVP experience and the universe it is my R&R.
The game to the Developers however does not mean what it means to me and as I come to realise the truth that it is a job to them, a money maker and nothing more.
Do not believe me?
Then ask your self how often do they play?
Are they any good when they do?
The answer is not much and no they are not because they do not play the game and have very little love for it and thus no experience in the environment.
MWO is dead or at least dying, evidence = they are working on a new IP and the publisher has left and most importantly of all the population of Mech warrior fans from the days of TT no longer play(old guard).
This is very important because we bank role this game for the long term. I would estimate that I have spent at least £1800 on this game that is $2902.27 USD. We kept Battletech alive for almost 30yrs how many MWO plays care that much even about MWO?
Do not think to judge me I believe in paying for things I love and I work hard for the money I make I have been playing since the beginning so this amount constitutes what I would have paid for a subscription.
Now comes the point, I find the above post that considers the forums cancerous, I would agree there are a lot of unskilled pilots that are frustrated and they call for a Call of Duty experience. They are young and dumb they want it fast and they want it easy so they can throw it away or have the delusion they have skill. The true cancer is the fact that PGI listen to them and not to the people that actually fund all of your enjoyment. This is the real truth that points to the real likelihood that this game will die and spend another decade in a draw. I do not want to wait another 10 years.
Stop complaining about balance if there is an OP weapon adapt use it against other players, stop taking the easy way out.
LEARN TO PLAY THE DAM GAME BEFORE GIVING UP AND ASKING RUSS TO NERF EVERY SKILLED WEAPON IN THIS GAME. AND MAYBE THEY WILL WORK ON OTHER THINGS RATHER THAN WORRY ABOUT FARE WEATHER PLAYERS THAT ONLY PLAY WHEN IT IS EASY YET MAKE UP 90% OF THE MWO POPUALTION.

[Jack Gallows]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 September 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

Understandable, though in fairness, while never wrote in stone, since CB, they always described no mixtech, mixed faction for CW. It's why I made a second acct for specifically for Clan Mechs.

Were I still playing, my idea had to be set as only playing IS 'mechs with my gaming community and only running Clan 'mechs when we were just C-bill farming on off hours/goofing off.

Regardless of the outcome of MW:O, I have made quite a few good friends on these forums mostly through community interaction with other units and art. Repainted Concept Art by Hayden...the best thing about MW:O for me

[Bishop Steiner]

NextGame, on 09 September 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

Regarding IGP now being out of the equation. It means that the jury is out, and only time will tell whether it actually means anything different for ourselves as players or not. But we have been in similar jury being out situations before and been let down, for example the various re-shiftings of the MWO development roadmap. The ball is once again at the feet of PGI to decide how to best play, but it has a slow puncture, and a couple of the panels are tearing off or have gone missing.

this is the only part I took out of your post.

Why? Because it is the only part that one can say is truly accurate. And even here, we don't know "if we have been here before" because this is the first time we have been free of IGP. Only NOW can we start to accurately assess blame and praise.
What do I know? IGP held the keys for MWT. Look at the mismanagement of that. IGP, being the Publisher, gave PGI a roadmap, one focused on monetization, because that is what Publishers do (along with usually screwing Studios and Players, alike).

Now, it is entirely possible that everything still crashes and burns. Or the status quo drags on. Or maybe, if people actually give PGI half a chance, instead of continuing to sabotage and undermine their every move, and question and slander their every word and motive, PGI might surprise us.

Russ has stepped up, and pretty much said "good or bad, from now on, it's on my head". Accountability is a good first step. Communication is a second. Looking at the pattern for this year, compared to 2013, makes me willing to give them a chance to take that third step, and see what CW brings.

[Bishop Steiner]

Torgun, on 09 September 2014 - 12:47 AM, said:

Yeah I find it rather amazing how after a new round of promises people actually start to feel that this time it's for real, hooray! I think I'll keep believing in things only when I see they've been released, since it's still what makes sense at this point.

No one is telling you to do otherwise. I am asking that you not actively oppose and belittle any attempts the Devs make to move forward though.

As for things seen, I will simply say compare product and communication from 2013. Now look at 2014. It might not be a home run, but it has been a consistent improvement, despite the best efforts of certain "worthies" to drag it all down.

So I guess you got 3 choices, you can be part of the problem, part of the (hopefully) cure, or a bystander. If you decide to be part of the problem, well, what will be will be. But if you are just going to be a bystander, that is fine, but please don't get in the way of those who are trying to help with the cure, as it were.

[Bishop Steiner]

Jack Gallows, on 09 September 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

Were I still playing, my idea had to be set as only playing IS 'mechs with my gaming community and only running Clan 'mechs when we were just C-bill farming on off hours/goofing off.

Regardless of the outcome of MW:O, I have made quite a few good friends on these forums mostly through community interaction with other units and art. Repainted Concept Art by Hayden...the best thing about MW:O for me

Well, at least you can find some positive and focus on it. There is a lot that ain't how I would have done it. Then again I am also not running a Dev studio, nor a programmer, but an amateur artist with delusions of grandeur, so "how I would have done it" and how "reality allowed me to do it" may indeed be two different things.

I have long wondered, and still feel that two of the biggest issues and mistakes made, also may have been totally unavoidable. Shackling themselves to a Publisher (who only see dollar signs, that is their job, after all), and choosing Cryengine over Unreal Engine.

That said, no publisher, not start up to get a Minimally Viable Product to Demo for Crowdfunding. And (Big if here) I understand correctly, Cryengine can been accessed for Free or rather cheaply anyhow, whereas Unreal cannot, so small studio, small budget, probably would never have got off the ground with Unreal, either.

[NextGame]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

this is the only part I took out of your post.

Don't worry, I didn't bother reading most of your post either, just skimmed it to get the jist.

Edited by NextGame, 09 September 2014 - 06:28 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

NextGame, on 09 September 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

Don't worry, I didn't bother reading most of your post either, just skimmed it to get the jist.

Glad you could make some a useful contribution to the community then. Buh bye.

[Tombstoner]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 September 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

And yes, I would feel somewhat different. And I bought the maximum Founders pack. And the money from that, was used long ago, to repay their startup loan from IGP, and add content. 5 Million is a drop in the bucket though, in game development (kind of insane, actually).

What I find laughable, is the number of people who act as if the Phoenix and Invasion packs were some kind of Founders pack, with all funds designated some sort of holy corban, only to be used at the Altar of MWO. And by that logic, every paint, cockpit bauble, etc, would be, too.

None of that was ever the case, or implied in the purchases of those packages. Yet here we are, people complaining, because a company uses assets from one product to help another product.

Forgettting that it also works the other way.....

[Bishop Steiner]

[redacted]
except the individual in your illustration, would technically be IGP, and nobody is praising them now they are gone.

We are actually wondering what, if anything PGI can accomplish now without conflicting directives though.

Whats next? Something good, something bad? Bit of both?

No one knows. Not me, not the self proclaimed "Programmers and Devs" who have dogged PGIs every step (without providing a shred of anything to back their claims) and not you.

Edited by Egomane, 09 September 2014 - 07:00 AM.
removed quote / responding to removed content

[White Bear 84]

I like Bishops tone, a good post asking for constructive criticism. I for one have my fair share of qualms with certain development and communication aspects, but like many others will voice my concerns and generally discuss. That said, when I put money into the Founders I made a commitment to stick through to CW and it is finally round the corner so here is to patience, perseverance and a little bit of nail biting/facepalming along the way.

p.s. If the development of this game has so far been slow and by any chance resembles the learning curve of MWO, then perhaps this is the point where that curve skyrockets! Im game to stick around and see. In the meantime, I have some particular pilots that I continue to hunt...

[PANZERKAT]

Ah, the blameless victim card. I knew it was around here somewhere.

[Roland]

We'll see how things play out. I'm not gonna buy things on faith alone any more.
If things improve, that's awesome.

[Dirty Old Man]

Why PGI dont just let the community take over and make the upgrades like ESV ? look at how successful the Skyrim franchise been? Since there are alot of them in the community who "Possess" all the necessary talents to code and develop the game ? thats why they "Angry Community" feels they can always do better. Why dont just let them try? I know nothing about developing games... thats why I dont complain... I just play the game the way anyway PGI makes it... becos of PGI sleepless nights... I get to play a Mechwarrior game after 10 freaking years....what ever they have done... what ever "Angry Community" feels PGI should have done....

THANK YOU PGI FOR HAVING THE BALLS TO DO THIS !!!!

ALL THE OTHER DEVELOPERS CAN JUST BE NO.2....

[Khobai]

It would be nice if the community could contribute maps or if players could host their own servers with custom maps. Thats one easy way the community could contribute to the game in a substantial way.

[Roland]

Dirty Old Man, on 09 September 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

Why PGI dont just let the community take over and make the upgrades like ESV ? look at how successful the Skyrim franchise been? Since there are alot of them in the community who "Possess" all the necessary talents to code and develop the game ? thats why they "Angry Community" feels they can always do better. Why dont just let them try? I know nothing about developing games... thats why I dont complain... I just play the game the way anyway PGI makes it... becos of PGI sleepless nights... I get to play a Mechwarrior game after 10 freaking years....what ever they have done... what ever "Angry Community" feels PGI should have done....

THANK YOU PGI FOR HAVING THE BALLS TO DO THIS !!!!

ALL THE OTHER DEVELOPERS CAN JUST BE NO.2....

It's a bit more difficult to allow modification of a multiplayer game. Skyrim can support modifications, since you are loading those modifications onto your own local machine... You aren't really creating content which will be forcibly pushed to other users.

In order to support full modification of the game, you'd have to go the route of Star Citizen, where they are going to allow folks to run their own private servers if they choose.

SOME content can be community driven, but not all.

I would strongly support community driven maps... Potentially even put them up onto a separate test server, where users can voluntarily join. Then create a simple voting system, where people can vote on whether they liked a map after playing it.

Every month, tally the votes. Cull the least popular maps, and take the most popular ones and work with the authors to get them ready for production.


Possibly one of the most innovative systems I've seen for community content is that used by Neverwinter Nights Online, where you can build entire quests for other players to play... and then they end up getting voted on by the community. People get various rewards (in addition to fame and glory) for making very good content, which in turn improves the quality of player created content in that game.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roland, on 09 September 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

We'll see how things play out. I'm not gonna buy things on faith alone any more.
If things improve, that's awesome.

Nothing wrong with that. I certainly ain't shilling for people to buy Clan Packs and line up for Clan Pack 2.

Just asking people to maybe look at the "current picture" and instead of automatically doing everything one can to be an obstruction, either try to help, or at least be hands off.


Things WILL go pear shaped in the future. But there is a heck of a lot of difference between a patch or two of bad hit reg, or desync, and some evil plan to milk money while whispering "CW, cw....:".

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 September 2014 - 06:54 AM.

[Torgun]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

No one is telling you to do otherwise. I am asking that you not actively oppose and belittle any attempts the Devs make to move forward though.

As for things seen, I will simply say compare product and communication from 2013. Now look at 2014. It might not be a home run, but it has been a consistent improvement, despite the best efforts of certain "worthies" to drag it all down.

So I guess you got 3 choices, you can be part of the problem, part of the (hopefully) cure, or a bystander. If you decide to be part of the problem, well, what will be will be. But if you are just going to be a bystander, that is fine, but please don't get in the way of those who are trying to help with the cure, as it were.

I belittle and make fun of things that I find worthy of such, there's no point in your asking me not to. Just as I point out when people think it's all sunshine all of a sudden when we're still under a thick layer of dark clouds. Need I remind you of CW being delayed again to end of fall for the next phase? It's things like this that hardly can make me feel there's been any noteworthy change in the development of MWO to go happy happy joy joy just yet.