543 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Dark DeLaurel, on 11 September 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

I should be able to dig out some images (I have some dating back to the closed beta).

@Tombstoner do you remember when that was? I can't remember and it would help me search through things.

pretty much all the second half of 2012

[Matthew Craig]

Feel free to PM Dark DeLaurel me more detail on what your system is, what settings you are running and what FPS you are seeing I'd be interested to compare (we regularly test a variety of setups in our test lab) to ensure its in line with other similar systems.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stinkeye, on 11 September 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

I love the fact that most of the angriest people are ex-white Knights. You would think PGIs biggest supporters becoming these angry out of touch weirdos would mean something. But I guess the OP is right and you should cut out most of your previous player base. I mean they really had nothing to be upset about really.....I stopped playing a long time ago due mostly to no new modes, CW, etc and of the hundred founders or so on my friends list did the same thing.
Why expect what you are promised or give feed back, that won't be listened to. Never have I seen a community turn from so much hope to so much hate and really it is all deserved. The quislings who are happy with the way things are are as shocking as well quislings. This last reddit scandal is just the capper on this hole sad epoch in MW history. Get some nails and dig a hole just put it down for good.

Or it should tell you something about the mindset and motives of many of the "White Knights".

Essentially, as long as PGI was making the choices THEY liked and approved of, PGI could do no wrong. But once PGI dared touch features, or not meet the goals they wanted, they turned, like rabid dogs.

Sounds more like they were really "white knighting" their own interests than PGIs or the Community. Fanatics of any stripe or color tend to share a sad and troubling commonality in character. Once they become disillusioned, for ANY reason, they turn that same fanatical fervor against the object the once slavishly were devoted to.

It's what happens when one marries ridiculous expectations and a myopic worldview.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 September 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

pretty much all the second half of 2012

I will go through my screen shots in the morning (getting ready for work right now).

[CHH Badkarma]

Matthew Craig, on 11 September 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Feel free to PM Dark DeLaurel me more detail on what your system is, what settings you are running and what FPS you are seeing I'd be interested to compare (we regularly test a variety of setups in our test lab) to ensure its in line with other similar systems.

good lookin out Matt!
No way Dark and I should be getting approx the same performance in game when I am only running a z77 3770k system vs his beast.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dark DeLaurel, on 11 September 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

I will go through my screen shots in the morning (getting ready for work right now).

thanks! All my 2012 stuff.....is inaccessible.

[Lacewing]

People are angry for a reason and want to see blood. "Calm down" speeches won't help at this point I'm afraid.

[Sprouticus]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 September 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

It's what happens when one marries ridiculous expectations and a myopic worldview.

This is what has always confused me. Ok maybe not confused...amazed me. I knew going into this that PGI would make a lot of choices I personally would not. From the moment I saw that they ignored a good chunk of what was discussed prior to closed beta. There were several dozen threads that outlined all the problems with previous MW titles, and how to fix them. Others outlined how mech/weapon balance could be achieved (coughcoughCoFcoughcough), how CW might work. Clan/IS balance, important structures that would be needed to make role warfare work, etc.

about 90% of it was not utilized.

MWO is not the game I hoped for, but it IS a fun game. I enjoy it because of the things they did correctly (the feel of the game, the graphics, the gamplay (in general), the sensors (ECM and lack of passive mode being the exceptions), the maps, etc.


Im not bitter and will never be bitter because I went into this with eyes open. I was actually shocked and pleasantly surprised when they implemented burst AC's on the clan side for example. Even though I have been advocating for that for 2 1/2 years. (and still think it would be awesome for IS as part of the overall balance efforts)

Really it is simple: Play the game if you like it. Be an adult, make suggestions, but assume the powers that be will not use them. If you feel like suggestions are not useful, then just play the game.

When things become personal, when you become so invested that you get ANGRY when things don't go your way....you really need to reevaluate why you are here.

I have said it before in several places, and Ill say it again:

Maybe MWO is on its last legs. Maybe not. I honestly don't know. And really I only care because I want it to be successful enough to have another iteration down the road and I want to continue to play now.

I still like MWO. I am curious about CW2. I am hoping that NBT-MWO may offer other options.

But again I have no expectations and Im pretty happy with everything to date.

[Sprouticus]

Breeder, on 11 September 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

People are angry for a reason and want to see blood. "Calm down" speeches won't help at this point I'm afraid.

Yes, they are angry because they feel entitled because 'they love BT/MW so much'. Which is silly. If you don't like the game, and see no chance to change game to the point where you will (or are not being listneed to), leave.

There is a 290 page thread on another board about MWO. All it is is people complaining. Which is really pointless.

You can:
accept things as they are
try to change them (if possible)
or
walk away.

everything else gives OTHER people power over you.

[Bishop Steiner]

Breeder, on 11 September 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

People are angry for a reason and want to see blood. "Calm down" speeches won't help at this point I'm afraid.

with the angry people?

Of course it won't. Their action show they are beyond reason or legitimately caring anyhow. All they want now is for everyone else to be as angry and miserable as they are. I certainly don't care what they think. They can stand in a corner spewing nonsense and venom til they are blue in the face.

I'm here to talk to the reasonable people the middle ground, the ones that make up 90% of the population, not the extremists on either side of the spectrum. Their minds are largely made up already.

[Gorgo7]

Angry for a reason? HAHA!

[Lacewing]

Sprouticus, on 11 September 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Yes, they are angry because they feel entitled because 'they love BT/MW so much'. Which is silly. If you don't like the game, and see no chance to change game to the point where you will (or are not being listneed to), leave.

There is a 290 page thread on another board about MWO. All it is is people complaining. Which is really pointless.

You can:
accept things as they are
try to change them (if possible)
or
walk away.

everything else gives OTHER people power over you.

No, they are angry because of unfulfilled promises. Many tried to bring MWO back on the right course, but were ignored. Plus the development of Transverse would slow down MWO even more and that was too much.

[ipox]

Matthew Craig, on 11 September 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Well to be fair he is injecting his own post processing which changes the look, though I have seen plenty of shots that capture great looking moments in our game check out Lordreds screen shot thread for examples. I think for many users it becomes a choice between great looking visuals or performance and as discussed I'd love to help make that less of a choice. As I've stated before the best way to do that currently is to run on very high and just lower shadows/environment and object detail to low or medium.

The reason for this is exactly as discussed above those sliders cut out the most draw calls and therefore have the greatest impact on performance the other sliders don't have as drastic an impact.

I am truly loving the openness and the honesty. This spirit is exactly what is desired by the silent crowd and thanks for sticking around to answer follow-ups. I don't have a core2duo and an IGP (nor do you -- whoops... awkward... but you know what I mean ) so I'm not personally fussed about this issue, but I really appreciate the successful attempt to answer the community-at-large's ongoing question about this -- and in your own forums.

Thank you, Mr. Craig. *doffs cap*

[Bishop Steiner]

Breeder, on 11 September 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

No, they are angry because of unfulfilled promises. Many tried to bring MWO back on the right course, but were ignored. Plus the development of Transverse would slow down MWO even more and that was too much.

define the "right" course? Right according to ...whom, exactly?

[Lacewing]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 September 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

define the "right" course? Right according to ...whom, exactly?

Those who crowd founded the game, because they believed in the promises. Most of the people raging through the forums are Founder. MWO "released" long time ago, but the gameplay didn't improve much since closed beta.

[Bishop Steiner]

Breeder, on 11 September 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

Those who crowd founded the game, because they believed in the promises. Most of the people raging through the forums are Founder. MWO "released" long time ago, but the gameplay didn't improve much since closed beta.

Ah, that old saw. Well thanks for letting me know the reasoning. I would say it's a gross simplification, and totally inaccurate about the gameplay improvements, or the difficulties implementing them, but if you are using that particular argument, I don't really expect it to get matter.

Enjoy your "righteous" anger.

(oh loook...what's that under my name..... a Founders tag....hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting. So apparently...not all the Founders are in agreement they were screwed...... )

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 11 September 2014 - 02:16 PM.

[CHH Badkarma]

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Do not expect anything, or get your hopes up and you should be fine with this game. Take it for what it is, a mech game with a few maps and game modes. Try to enjoy it for just that. yeah pgi has failed to deliver many many times, broken promises and outright lied many times over the past several years. One thing they are not doing however is forcing any of us to stick around.

It is a cycle. anger, rage, disappointment then eventual disinterest. That is why many people just are not sticking around anymore. It just is not worth the effort for some.

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 11 September 2014 - 02:26 PM.

[Lacewing]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 September 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Ah, that old saw. Well thanks for letting me know the reasoning. I would say it's a gross simplification, and totally inaccurate about the gameplay improvements, or the difficulties implementing them, but if you are using that particular argument, I don't really expect it to get matter.

Enjoy your "righteous" anger.

(oh loook...what's that under my name..... a Founders tag....hmmmmmmmmm. Interesting. So apparently...not all the Founders are in agreement they were screwed...... )

Old saw - still valid saw. Who had difficulties implementig what doesn't matter, the result is what matters. If you're happy with MWO in this state good for you, but many are not. I didn't invest much much in MWO (~90$) compared to some others and they are truly rightfull to be angry.

[Bishop Steiner]

CHH Badkarma, on 11 September 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Do not expect anything, or get your hopes up and you should be fine with this game. Take it for what it is, a mech game with a few maps and game modes. Try to enjoy it for just that. yeah pgi has failed to deliver many many times, broken promises and outright lied many times over the past several years. One thing they are not doing however is forcing any of us to stick around.

It is a cycle. anger, rage, disappointment then eventual disinterest. That is why many people just are not sticking around anymore. It just is not worth the effort for some.

if people are investing that much of their person into a video game, and AREN'T on the Dev team, they really need to seek help, anyhow. It's a game. Like a movie. It's entertainment. If it's no longer entertaining, find something that is.

Everybody gotta be drama llamas these days.

[Chrithu]

Breeder, on 11 September 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

Those who crowd founded the game, because they believed in the promises. Most of the people raging through the forums are Founder. MWO "released" long time ago, but the gameplay didn't improve much since closed beta.

Founder's program was a pre-order not a crowd fund. And as far as "the gameplay didn't improve much" goes: Firstly I think we all can agree that the baseline gameplay towards the end of closed beta was spot on and fun and thus did not really need improvement. Since then they added Elo based match-making (which is nowhere near perfect but it still DID improve things and is still actively tweaked and worked on to further improve), at least half a dozen maps, about 5 or 6 times as much new mechs (even more if you count every variant and hero), regular challenges, two new gamemodes, steady balance changes and at the latest clan mechs which brought on a completely new layer of customizing mechs through Omnipods.

That's not to say everything is fine. But following the OP's premise it is just fair to say that they have done quite a lot. Not everything was received well by the community and there still is work to do, but saying not much has improved is just as wrong as saying everything went/is perfect.

That said I'd also like to thank Matthew for chiming in and shedding some light on the engine questions. Quite the interesting read. Naturally as someone that was hit pretty hard by the performance ups and downs (medium settings @ 1080P with 45 to 60 FPS during closed and much of open beta dropped to currently 20 to 40 FPS at all low settings @ 1080P on the same machine) it is a little disappointing for me to hear that optimization has lower priority than making new things, but of course it is understandable when the bad performance actually is an exception tied to specific hardware setups and not the general rule.