82 replies to this topic

[EgoSlayer]

DEMAX51, on 08 September 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Still doesn't mean that PGI funded MechWarrior Tactics...

Yeah, PGI had to pay money to IGP, their publisher, as part of their contract - which is standard practice. IGP decided to spend that money however they wished - which is their prerogative - that still doesn't have anything to do with PGI.

And your second point about development stopping on MWT, but still selling founders packages right up until the end - those are choices IGP made. Again... nothing to do with PGI.

The difference is that this was a crowd funded project. Not normal income and then reinvestment. Name a successful Kickstarter project where the money went to something *other* than what was crowd funded. The expectation of crowd funding is that you are paying to fund *that* project, not the company at large. If the money is misused to support the project the supporters are rightfully upset. To support other projects with the funding without stipulation that it will be used that way is duplicitous.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 08 September 2014 - 10:48 AM.

[Aresye]

cdlord, on 08 September 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

Diversification is a good thing.... To the people who complained (incorrectly) that Founders money got spent on another game, more games under PGI means more revenue stream and more people, more benefit for all the games to share the bank account.

Branching out is good, but not when a project needs desperate attention. Yes, PGI has been doing, "better," as of late, but doing better and being more transparent doesn't change the fact that this game is STILL horrendously behind schedule, and lacks in both promised features and substance.

Hiring more talent is great and all, but if anything, MWO is what needs that extra talent. MWO needs that extra work capability to deliver on promised features and get the game back on track. Imagine how much faster MWO could be coming along if all the new talent working on that new game were spent helping MWO play catch-up?

[DEMAX51]

EgoSlayer, on 08 September 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

The difference is that this was a crowd funded project. Not normal income and then reinvestment. Name a successful Kickstarter project where the money went to something *other* than what was crowd funded. The expectation of crowd funding is that you are paying to fund *that* project, not the company at large. If the money is misused to support the project the supporters are rightfully upset. To support other projects with the funding without stipulation that it will be used that way is duplicitous.

First off, the game wasn't "crowdsourced" - what they sold to founders were Early Access packages.
Second, they didn't use the money to "fund other projects," but they were obviously obligated to pay their Publisher, IGP, whatever percentage of the game's revenue IGP was contractually due. This is not duplicitous. PGI paying their publisher is standard practice.

[EgoSlayer]

DEMAX51, on 08 September 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

First off, the game wasn't "crowdsourced" - what they sold to founders were Early Access packages.
Second, they didn't use the money to "fund other projects," but they were obviously obligated to pay their Publisher, IGP, whatever percentage of the game's revenue IGP was contractually due. This is not duplicitous. PGI paying their publisher is standard practice.

MWO absolutely was "crowdsourced", that isn't even subject to debate. PGI could not, and would not have created MWO without the founders packages. They didn't have the money, and nobody was willing to VC support the project.

[Apnu]

I'm sure its been posted here before, but I'll leave this right here anyway.

Nikolai Lubkiewicz said:

There may come a time when MWO can be called "feature complete", I think we can safely say we're not even close to that point yet. In the weeks to come, We're going to see a handful of individuals move on from MWO to take senior roles in the new project; Don't panic! We're also going to see (and are already) seeing many new fresh-faces on staff. If it helps the mental imagery, Bryan was rummaging around the office with a measuring tape the other day trying to figure out how we're going to fit all the extra workstations needed. We're going to get to benefit from the added wisdom and experience of these new team-members too.

From: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3696462

Edited by Apnu, 08 September 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

buttmonkey, on 08 September 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

OK so I'm confused, a new game will bring in money to help this one, or not? Because otherwise, this game will just lose developers to the new one right?
[size=4]
This confuses me further. Why is so hard to believe that money from MWO was used on other games when you say yourself the the money will get shared?

Then this please explain
[color=#959595]"Our new game development is funded from a different source and we have been recruiting new talent exclusively for this project. We did move some staff around internally as needed to accommodate two productions, and their will be some shared resources (marketing, customer service, QA)."[/color]
So if it's funded from a diferent source, and devs have been moved over to the new team, how is that possible. That means resources (people being paid from MWO money) have been moved to the new project, so doesnt that prove that MWO will be getting less development resources now even if the income remains the same???

The Founder's Program money was used to pay off a loan to IGP, so yes, it was used for MWO. All you care about is sending in your rent money to the apartment complex, you don't go whining because that money was then used to refurb 2b's bathroom....

It might be tough in the beginning, but there are people resources employed by PGI that MWO doesn't need anymore. Those people will be moved. Others will be asked to devote some time to both, it's a business. McDonalds doesn't have one prep line for each item on their menu do they? Once the other game takes off, then the revenue will coem in, PGI can hire more people, and devote more resources to both games. Investments don't always kick back immediate returns.

Edited by cdlord, 08 September 2014 - 11:16 AM.

[buttmonkey]

Ok so history aside for one moment, some one please explain my previous question, how is it possible for the new game to be independently funded when it is acknowledged that the resources will be shared to some degree? This is what is gnawing at my gut. If it were a new publisher for example not IGP then it seems unlikely they will want their resources going into MWO. But on the flip side I bet most publishers would have no objection to having money from an old IP (MWO) going into their new venture. Does this make sense to anyone other than me? People who are on the payroll now as we speak (their wages I assume are generated by MWO as it's the only IP PGI own) are being moved over to the new project. So does that equate to resources being directly transferred from MWO to the new game? Because if it does then there can only be a reduction in the progress with regards to MWO.

[Ahja]

Oh MWO is done alright.

[stjobe]

EgoSlayer, on 08 September 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

MWO absolutely was "crowdsourced", that isn't even subject to debate. PGI could not, and would not have created MWO without the founders packages. They didn't have the money, and nobody was willing to VC support the project.

Well, that was what they wanted us to think while the founder program was still running.

After it ended though, the truth came out:

Quote

Nick Foster, CEO of IGP's parent company 7G Entertainment, explains, "Unlike most Kickstarter projects, we've had VC investment in the first minimum-viable-product part of the game.

- http://www.gamasutra...Kickstarter.php

Quote

Does this mean that, without crowdfunding, the game would simply not come into being? "Not quite," he says. "The product will be a lot better for players because of the crowdfunding. It's allowed us to maintain a higher level of ongoing development in the product, than if we were waiting for momentum to build immediately after going live. In the next few months, we'll be able to release a lot more features."

- ibid.

So yeah. The founder program was just a way to repay their loans, not to help bring the game out. That was going to happen either way, since they already had their "minimum viable product".

But as I said, "help us bring your beloved IP to life!" garners a lot more money than "help us repay our loans!".

[buttmonkey]

cdlord, on 08 September 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

The Founder's Program money was used to pay off a loan to IGP, so yes, it was used for MWO. All you care about is sending in your rent money to the apartment complex, you don't go whining because that money was then used to refurb 2b's bathroom....

It might be tough in the beginning, but there are people resources employed by PGI that MWO doesn't need anymore. Those people will be moved. Others will be asked to devote some time to both, it's a business. McDonalds doesn't have one prep line for each item on their menu do they? Once the other game takes off, then the revenue will coem in, PGI can hire more people, and devote more resources to both games. Investments don't always kick back immediate returns.

Sorry I was writing a post and did not see this. I'm not saying that PGI should not ever make another game, what I'm wanting to know is how they can carry on MWO if they are shifting resources to the new IP. You must admit progress has been slow, and it's only logical that it will slow further by sharing the limited resources they have. Also see my above post.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 September 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

I would not say that, but opinions will vary Almond. And a F2P game has to at least have the basics finished and the meat and potatoes finished. Here we have an Appetizer and the the main dish is on the grill. For it to be "finished" it would need to have At least Lyrans playing against Capellans with Lone Wolves filling the gaps. Planets to be contested and a battlefront that changes hands according to who won how many matches on what planets. That would be a pretty well established game. We are still in a demo here.

In response to the OP, we both have correct views. The game is not finished, thus with Dev work ongoing, the game is indeed incomplete. One can wait and worry. One can wait and complain or one can wait while playing what is.

[UnsafePilot]

buttmonkey, on 08 September 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Ok so history aside for one moment, some one please explain my previous question, how is it possible for the new game to be independently funded when it is acknowledged that the resources will be shared to some degree?

The 'shared resources' are people. If the new game is independently (from MWO) funded then I would assume that those shared resources will be paid from whichever game's coffer they were currently working on; ie. Development time for MWO will be paid for with funds earned through MWO and likewise with the new game.

[Egomane]

Could we please lay of the talk about the new game for a while?

It is a different game. Even if it is made by the same developer, it doesn't belong in the MWO general discussion as MWO GD is about MWO. The same goes for all talks about MWT. That's also another game. Both topics belong in the off-topic forums. For now Bryan has asked us as a community to refrain from creating threads about the new game.

Quote

There will be lots of time to discuss P2 in depth after the QNA tomorrow and announcement on Tuesday!

If this thread keeps discussing this specific off-topic material I'll close it down.

[bluepiglet]

Almond Brown, on 08 September 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

one can wait while playing what is.

What it is is already falls short of satisfaction due to its slow paced updates. And they are about to send experienced staffs off for another project and bring newbies to take their places. See the problems?

Edited by bluepiglet, 08 September 2014 - 11:31 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

buttmonkey, on 08 September 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Sorry I was writing a post and did not see this. I'm not saying that PGI should not ever make another game, what I'm wanting to know is how they can carry on MWO if they are shifting resources to the new IP. You must admit progress has been slow, and it's only logical that it will slow further by sharing the limited resources they have. Also see my above post.

I can't argue with the slow development, I can keep the faith and believe this is a good thing. Longevity for PGI means longevity for MWO. I know that's not de-facto, but on the flip side, where would MWO be if PGI had to close shop? Never know, with the development of that other game, PGI might learn a few tricks they couldn't while working on MWO that could then be added back to MWO. Believe....

[Roland]

POWR, on 08 September 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

Most game companies that run online titles will at some point start to develop more titles, leaving the ones already running with a live-team to maintain the game and develop new content.

This is certainly the case.

However, usually a small development house would wait until their primary project has reached the support stage of the software's lifecycle, where it's complete, and future development can be reduced to minor bug fixes, and voluntary feature additions (i.e., ones that are not required at any specific time), and customer support.

MWO is nowhere near the support stage of its lifecycle.

Frankly, MWO is not even truly a beta product. It's still an Alpha product, as it's not even close to being feature complete. We are still without major pillars of the original design, in the form of Community Warfare.

If you are a small development house, you cannot expect for a product which does not even have its original feature set developed fully to survive without full focus. It's simply not going to be strong enough to support itself.

[buttmonkey]

Well at some point then MWO will be considered complete and a small group left to maintain it, and perhaps add the odd mech or two right (to keep money coming in)? So where is this line? After CW is in, or way down the road, because to say a game is mature, kind of implies that it's nearing the end of it's creation. In fact in most cases mature is considered as getting old, for example like a "mature" wine, or a "mature woman". And with the relocation of devs it kind of reinforces the idea that MWO is now winding down it's production as PGI start to ramp up production on their new IP. It's all very disheartening, I know it's just a feeling but I do get a bad feeling about this. :| I would really like to know what PGI is thinking, like what is their end goal? CW or something bigger?

[Mcgral18]

Egomane, on 08 September 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Could we please lay of the talk about the new game for a while?

It is a different game. Even if it is made by the same developer, it doesn't belong in the MWO general discussion as MWO GD is about MWO. The same goes for all talks about MWT. That's also another game. Both topics belong in the off-topic forums. For now Bryan has asked us as a community to refrain from creating threads about the new game.


If this thread keeps discussing this specific off-topic material I'll close it down.

So, come Wednesday can we start discussing it on PGIs forums without being badgered? Or will we have to find somewhere else to do it?

[Egomane]

Mcgral18, on 08 September 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

So, come Wednesday can we start discussing it on PGIs forums without being badgered? Or will we have to find somewhere else to do it?

If you keep it in the off-topic forums, like all the other non-MWO games? Yes!

[Feetwet]

Egomane, on 08 September 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

If you keep it in the off-topic forums, like all the other non-MWO games? Yes!

There is a problem with this though. We as MWO players feel either rightly or wrongly that this new game will have a DIRECT impact on the development of MWO. As a result, I feel that these discussions are very on-topic and belong in the MWO general discussion. Whether you wish it or not, the recent announcements are the biggest story in MWO right now. We as a playerbase have been waiting quite some time for more maps and CW and these announcements put serious doubts in our minds.

S