175 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 09 September 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

What's the name of that syndrome people get towards their abusers?

Stockholm syndrome.

[Corvus Antaka]

The problem is anyone thinking that blaming the community or anything other than themselves for their own failures is a smart decision.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 09 September 2014 - 08:46 PM.

[headbasher]

You complain "you want maps "" you want CW" ..................wow op you win bad post of the day



What have the done besides part us from our money??? .....................Yea that's what I thought.

I wasn't really intending to wack PGI but damn man your argument is so poor it boggles the mind did you even read what you wrote ?

They have been doing pretty good lately but your post is just to far out there

Edited by headbasher, 09 September 2014 - 09:32 PM.

[Ghogiel]

You need a gold mech before you can point fingers at other people for not doing enough to support the game. Right now the OP looks like "content" for playing players.

Edited by Ghogiel, 09 September 2014 - 09:22 PM.

[Sarlic]

Funny man right here.

[Aresye]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

What PGI does with their money is none of your damn business. You aren't congress, you aren't the President and you certainly aren't an invester. You pay them for a service.

What about if one of the services you paid for, still isn't in the game? Ever think about that, Mr. Above The Community?

Yes, PGI has a right to do whatever they want with their money, however the community also has a very justifiable right to be concerned about where their money's going, when most of them are still waiting on the original promises made when the game was launched.

[Gooner]

I spent $60 on this game, which is roughly the same (I am in UK so there are issues with exchange rate) and in some cases more, than I've spent on other games.

This year so far I have bought 26 games, last year I bought 46 games, the year before that I bought 34 games. Yes some of those were on steam sales, but if a game is getting good reviews (from professional critics and gamers) and it looks like its finished (bug free) I have no problem buying for full price.

But still, all those other developers managed to give me a finished product (maybe after a couple of patches).

But yes, PGI not finishing CW after 2+ years is my fault for not spending any more money.

To be clear, this is a response to the OP, not intended to be flaming PGI.

Edited by Gooner, 09 September 2014 - 10:51 PM.

[El Bandito]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

The real problem with PGI isn't being slow to deliver content, their management of funds, or their business decisions... the REAL problem here is all of US the community.

You complain because they don't deliver content fast enough for you. How much time and money (yes time is money, wages are one of your highest operating costs in any business) have they had to spend to make changes that people in these forums have complained, whined, and QQ'd for. One of PGI's biggest mistakes is that they pay TOO much attention to their community and we end up with them trying to appease the vocal minority while the silent majority are left scratching their heads.

You complain about the order in which they release content. I want community warfare, no wait I want maps, no wait I want clans, no wait i want community warfare. We as the collective gaming community have rejected the traditional model of subscription based games, we want free to play. Well guess what? Free to play isn't free. It's going to cost somewhere. You know what PGI has to do before they work on implementing community warfare? They have to BRING IN REVENUE, and that may come in the form of a big clan release in order to get you to *gasp* spend real money on buying clan packs. How in the world can anyone play a free to play game and complain about pay to win. You do realise that if these guys don't come up with a way to separate you from your cash then there will not be a game to play right? You think developers and artists and servers are free.

What PGI does with their money is none of your damn business. You aren't congress, you aren't the President and you certainly aren't an invester. You pay them for a service.. I for one am happy to have this game. It's lots of fun and very well done. Every game has it's share of bugs and glitches. Less QQ and more *pewpew* If you don't like it, don't play it. I know this will more than likely be flamed to hell but I had to give my 2 cents.

You say this now, but soon enough you will join us in our island. It is only a matter of time.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

The real problem with PGI isn't being slow to deliver content, their management of funds, or their business decisions... the REAL problem here is all of US the community.

I would beg to differ that it is not the community and there would be lots of people that agree (and reading this thread I am correct). Slow to deliver content and business decisions have a direct coloration to their management of funds. We the founders shelled out a metric crapton of money and still have not see what was promised (Community Warfare is the biggest) and the game performance and graphics have also taken a hit since that time.

Constantly telling the community that feature X is only 90 days away, and then missing that target then going on to say "really this time it is 90 days" only to find out later on that nothing was done for a while year because of them working on a deal for extending the BattleTech license kind of leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

Quote

You complain because they don't deliver content fast enough for you. How much time and money (yes time is money, wages are one of your highest operating costs in any business) have they had to spend to make changes that people in these forums have complained, whined, and QQ'd for. One of PGI's biggest mistakes is that they pay TOO much attention to their community and we end up with them trying to appease the vocal minority while the silent majority are left scratching their heads.

Actually they have not made any changes for the community, get your Google-Fu and forum search skills dusted off and start going back through the archives. No one wanted Ghost Heat/Heat Scale, screwed up PPCs (which ironically are now back to almost the speed they were in Closed Beta).


So much fail in the next paragraph it is not funny, where to start....hummm...lets start with this

Quote

You complain about the order in which they release content. I want community warfare, no wait I want maps, no wait I want clans, no wait i want community warfare.

Those goal posts started to shift once the community finally understood that Community Warfare was just a lie for over a year. So what is the next best thing maps, the fact I have been playing on some of the Closed Beta maps for two or so years is quite insane really, especially when you look at other games (Ex: World of Tanks which the MW:O system is based off of) just released a few more maps in the 9.1 update I think it is. I have only been playing WoT since July and got to be around for that, nice!

Now what else ahh..lets move to this

Quote

We as the collective gaming community have rejected the traditional model of subscription based games, we want free to play. Well guess what? Free to play isn't free. It's going to cost somewhere. You know what PGI has to do before they work on implementing community warfare? They have to BRING IN REVENUE, and that may come in the form of a big clan release in order to get you to *gasp* spend real money on buying clan packs.

The MW:O Community did not pick the Free 2 Play model over a subscription model, hell I am sure there are quite a few of us that would rather pay a subscription to have everything released on time and to everyone at once without these big grabs at the wallet. Before you even think about saying I am not a revenue generating player lets see

Legendary Founder - Check
Phoenix Pack - Check
Phoenix Reinforcement Pack - Check
Warhawk Package for a Clansmen - Check
Gold Dire Wolf so I could gift the Warhawk Package mentioned above - Check

My fellow Clansmen also have dropped for the same packs, I know there are others out in the community that have also. So there is revenue coming in, just not as much as PGI would like. Which is directly related to the perceived value of things. More `Mechs are a low value, I would drop money in a heart beat for more maps (and many others from reading the forums).

Quote

What PGI does with their money is none of your damn business. You aren't congress, you aren't the President and you certainly aren't an invester. You pay them for a service.. I for one am happy to have this game. It's lots of fun and very well done. Less QQ and more *pewpew* If you don't like it, don't play it. I know this will more than likely be flamed to hell but I had to give my 2 cents.

Actually as a Canadian their revenue is my business as they started off with a grant from our Government in a province that can not afford to lose money (British Columbia), so if B.C. shells out money for companies that can not bring revenue into the province then my province (Alberta) has to pay B.C. more because of our Provincial Equalization payments. Then the aforementioned money for the packs listed above (not to mention all the MC I have bought).

The game is nowhere near as fun as it was in Closed Beta and has fallen along way since then and is not very well done. I would rather go back to UI 1.0 rather than keep trying to use UI 2.0. That says a lot as I hated the first UI, but love it compared to the current one. I actually don't like it and barely play now since the Clan ER Large Laser fiasco, the Jump Jet thing did not bother me much as I only use them on lights, the Gauss Rifle charge mechanic pissed me off quite a bit and I did stop playing for a bit to cool off and relearned how to play with it. Now days my Clan seems to spend more time in Borderlands 2 and World of Tanks.

Now this little gem

Quote

Every game has it's share of bugs and glitches.

I used to beta test for Activision and a few other companies, the amount of issues with this game is what I would see in the first disc sent out for me to test (yes disc this was in the early days of broadband). The fact weapons are still getting wild adjustments is not good, the fact if I run DirectX 11 and do not disable my SLI (which kills my nvSurround, which kills my desktop...) I get to see through the game world.

So how about you just start doing some more reading through the forums and then you can start to possibly moan and whine about "us community".

Oh and PGI has done one other game under the PGI moniker
http://en.wikipedia...._Nakatomi_Plaza

Which oddly enough had a few missed shipping dates...Oh wait PGI also created Jarhead games and you can find a list of their games here
http://ca.ign.com/co...s/jarhead-games

They also did the netcode for Duke Nukem Forever, which even on a LAN was horrid, man was it bad....so so bad....

Yea I think that is enough for now.

Edited by Dark DeLaurel, 09 September 2014 - 11:05 PM.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

We all want this game to improve.

Broken promises are the problem. When you go to the restaurant and buy a steak you expect it to bee delivered. When you wait 4 hours for it...and ask.."where is my steak..." PGI would answer..can you buy a dish? Ok I buy a dish....2 hours later PGI would announce that they just bought a cow....but it is still young...can you please wait 6 month? Then we give her to the slaughter...meanwhile...you can buy a beer for the steak?........Would you wait that time?

[EvilCow]

I am a critic but I never stopped to support them in the only meaningful way.

<--------

I am still waiting them to delivery what they promised. Stop giving us lessons Mr. freeloader.

[Russ Bullock]

Well this wasn't very uplifting.

I appreciate the OP and his point of view, always nice to have support. Of course it's hard to hear people that don't seem to want to accept anything good but only focus on items of 1-2 years ago.

But...

For me I feel like were starting fresh now. I hope everyone listened to the town hall and we can admit that 2014 was significantly different in many ways and that we are close to delivering that final of the 4 pillars.

That final pillar, its getting close and then I hope that once that happens the tone can change to at the very least "that took too long but we have everything they promised, now lets all get along and try to keep making this game better".

Silly me I know, but I am an optimist when it comes to people. Anyhow I look forward to sharing more about CW with you in the near future.

[SPII025]

Why is this topic still here when both sides of the argument are non-constructive?

Shouldnt this be moved to Off Topic?

[Russ Bullock]

Yasuoka, on 09 September 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

Why is this topic still here when both sides of the argument are non-constructive?

Shouldnt this be moved to Off Topic?

Your probably right. In the morning Niko probably will do just that.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Russ Bullock, on 09 September 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

Well this wasn't very uplifting.

I appreciate the OP and his point of view, always nice to have support. Of course it's hard to hear people that don't seem to want to accept anything good but only focus on items of 1-2 years ago.

But...

For me I feel like were starting fresh now. I hope everyone listened to the town hall and we can admit that 2014 was significantly different in many ways and that we are close to delivering that final of the 4 pillars.

That final pillar, its getting close and then I hope that once that happens the tone can change to at the very least "that took too long but we have everything they promised, now lets all get along and try to keep making this game better".

Silly me I know, but I am an optimist when it comes to people. Anyhow I look forward to sharing more about CW with you in the near future.

The problem is, that you cant just restart to gain trust. You cant decide when you wanna regain trust. trust is not a button.It happens over a period of time. Then you see wether ppl trust pgi and you or not. Iam sry russ, optimism wont help you in that case-try to be realistic

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 09 September 2014 - 11:39 PM.

[Conan Librarian]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

Well guess what? Free to play isn't free. It's going to cost somewhere. You know what PGI has to do before they work on implementing community warfare? They have to BRING IN REVENUE, and that may come in the form of a big clan release in order to get you to *gasp* spend real money on buying clan packs.

I'm sorry but I disagree.

I don't sleep on money. I choose carefully what games I buy because for me they are luxury items. Back in the old days you saw a finished product before you had to pay for it. That's why I wasn't afraid to pay for, say, Unreal 1, Half Life 1 and 2, HoMM 3, Diablo 2, TF2, etc. because I *knew* they will provide tons of fun for long long time. They still do.


Nowadays, with so many games following F2P model, people like me have to be extra careful. I first test game, then for a long time I test the company behind it - watch how they develop it, what's in updates, etc. - and *after* that I decide whether or not I should spend some money as a "thank you" to the company.

I didn't spend a dime on MWO yet even though I play it for over a year. PGI/IGP didn't want me to. When I joined MWO I noticed that this game is nothing more than a deathmatch games with grind for new mechs. They promised CW though, and that caught my attention.
I promised to myself that I'll spend good money on MWO once they release fun to play CW.

One year later... Hm.


If they want to look at this game as a product they want to sell (even though we, gamers, hate this attitude) then they should know better that product needs certain quality to get sold well.

We are gamers, not charity, we pay to get a proper fun, not to fund "save the BattleTech franchise" thing.



This is not a hate post. I just explain how I (and some other gamers too, probably) feel about game developement so far. If they *really* change the attitude now, provide content, bring back fun to the game... I'm willing to pay for it... as a "thank you", not as a customer.

Edited by Groovy4life, 09 September 2014 - 11:47 PM.

[Kilo 40]

Russ Bullock, on 09 September 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

Your probably right. In the morning Niko probably will do just that.

do you ever sleep???

[Duke Nedo]

The core game is fun and has is improving imo (in the early beta strategy was horribly flat, the only doctrine was getting 8 atlases and move in a deathball). Now it's quite different so definately going in the right direction.

There is a lot of room for improvement. To get the game up to 2015 standards it would need better working netcode and interactable terrain and interactable "elements" (like lazoring snow -> steam cloud etc). But the core game is fun, I keep coming back to that and it keeps me playing.

Imo a fair bit of the negativity comes from that MWO has really really high potential, and people expect the things they can dream of and then realize that it won't happen... read: campains with user made missions, resource management, dropships and commander defined drop-points on huuuge randomly generated maps in planetary conquest etc. I like to dream and share the concern that CW will just be another kind of grind...

[Russ Bullock]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 09 September 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

The problem is, that you cant just restart to gain trust. You cant decide when you wanna regain trust. trust is not a button.It happens over a period of time. Then you see wether ppl trust pgi and you or not. Iam sry russ, optimism wont help you in that case-try to be realistic

Yes it takes time I agree. For some the past 9 months might mean a lot. For you I guess not and that is 100% your prerogative.

We will continue working hard.

[Sarlic]

Russ Bullock, on 09 September 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

Well this wasn't very uplifting.

I appreciate the OP and his point of view, always nice to have support. Of course it's hard to hear people that don't seem to want to accept anything good but only focus on items of 1-2 years ago.

But...

For me I feel like were starting fresh now. I hope everyone listened to the town hall and we can admit that 2014 was significantly different in many ways and that we are close to delivering that final of the 4 pillars.

That final pillar, its getting close and then I hope that once that happens the tone can change to at the very least &quot;that took too long but we have everything they promised, now lets all get along and try to keep making this game better&quot;.

Silly me I know, but I am an optimist when it comes to people. Anyhow I look forward to sharing more about CW with you in the near future.

Show it.

I want to hear and see visual roadmaps with estimated dates and a compiled list of what and when it's getting fixed or perhaps overhauled. Also a other roadmap with estimated content releases.

What are your plans? Explain as much as possible.

Russ, you need to communicate more in order to regain my trust again. I want to hear it here, not on some social media i never come. Tired of digging for information.

Let the community gets involved. Look at prosposed solution, investigate, research and try them out on the test server. There are tons of thread with good solutions to try. Mapmaker or community content. Seriously we ARE a hidden power.

Edited by Sarlic, 10 September 2014 - 12:08 AM.