175 replies to this topic

[Thizcrusher]

The real problem with PGI isn't being slow to deliver content, their management of funds, or their business decisions... the REAL problem here is all of US the community.

You complain because they don't deliver content fast enough for you. How much time and money (yes time is money, wages are one of your highest operating costs in any business) have they had to spend to make changes that people in these forums have complained, whined, and QQ'd for. One of PGI's biggest mistakes is that they pay TOO much attention to their community and we end up with them trying to appease the vocal minority while the silent majority are left scratching their heads.

You complain about the order in which they release content. I want community warfare, no wait I want maps, no wait I want clans, no wait i want community warfare. We as the collective gaming community have rejected the traditional model of subscription based games, we want free to play. Well guess what? Free to play isn't free. It's going to cost somewhere. You know what PGI has to do before they work on implementing community warfare? They have to BRING IN REVENUE, and that may come in the form of a big clan release in order to get you to *gasp* spend real money on buying clan packs. How in the world can anyone play a free to play game and complain about pay to win. You do realise that if these guys don't come up with a way to separate you from your cash then there will not be a game to play right? You think developers and artists and servers are free.

What PGI does with their money is none of your damn business. You aren't congress, you aren't the President and you certainly aren't an invester. You pay them for a service.. I for one am happy to have this game. It's lots of fun and very well done. Every game has it's share of bugs and glitches. Less QQ and more *pewpew* If you don't like it, don't play it. I know this will more than likely be flamed to hell but I had to give my 2 cents.

[Fuligin]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

the REAL problem here is all of US the community.

I see this in a lot of game forums and I guess all I can say is you are absolutely spot on right. Dissatisfied paying customers like me are definitely the problem. I guess I will just have to take my money and my opinions elsewhere to save them the hassle of dealing with either.

[Zanathan]

If I could down vote this I would but unfortunately that is one feature that is sorely lacking on these forums.

I agree that some of the QQers are actually *gasp* non-constructive with their whiner. Some actually are.

While PGI can do as they please with their money they still need to listen to their customers since if you are so blind to customer satisfaction you will lose the customer and revenue. There is only so much of this until you have very little customers to support the game.

[PANZERKAT]

What's the name of that syndrome people get towards their abusers?

[UBCslayer]

Pretty sure the problem with PGI is they can`t fix the de-sync problem that is very quickly making this game unplayable.

[Felbombling]

It struck me last night that the amount of flexibility we have in the game, from the Mech Lab to the banked Premium time, is kind of embarrassing when compared to other games. Yes, they miss deadlines. Yes, they are guilty of over promising content while a big sale is coming up. Yes, they are guilty of giving us the impression that our feedback is welcome, even though 99% of it seems to be chucked out the window come release of something we're given a peek at. But I have been sitting on a pile of premium time just waiting for the correct moment to activate it, and I'm allowed crazy freedom in the Mech Lab that has probably, over the long haul, caused this game innumerable balance problems with the kid-bashing we're allowed to do. You don't see that kind of freedom in War Thunder or World of Tanks, that's for sure.

KOMMISSAR KITTY, on 09 September 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

What's the name of that syndrome people get towards their abusers?

Stockholm (even though I suspect you were joking around, Kommissar) lol

[Asmudius Heng]

No, the problem with PGI is the horrific interaction with the community before it became toxic.

That combined with poor gameplay decisions a the inability to interact and take good feedback.

The business decisions I understand partly - but the lack of engagement with the community for so long and their inability to admit mistakes I their issue.

If they were better at PR and more transparent overall then people would be questioning the business practice and pace o development much less.

[Pika]

I posted this in a response to another thread, but I'm going to duplicate it here as it seems equally relevant for this too. The problem is the Battletech community, like any tabletop\wargaming community, is full of very, very horrible people.

Pika, on 09 September 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

I hate to say it man, but "Frank" discussion is something 90% of the Battletech community has forgotten how to do. This is not endemic to these forums. It's not the fault of PGI that a lot of the the player base are also people I wouldn't associate with in most other ways. In fact the only decent part of the Battletech community I can think of play MegaMek . Yet MOST of the people I've spoken to on there won't come near this forum because of, and I quote "The horrible Battletech community". Ironic, eh?

Make no mistake I am not saying there ain't good people in the community, nor am I saying that it's not an issue with all games. But the gamer culture and mindset combined with the sense of entitlement that the entire BT fan base has developed (Not just the founders Clan players, or even MWO players) makes any chance of "Frank" discussion impossible. Everyone seems to want their pound of flesh.

Just wait. Let's watch how long it takes for someone to tell me I'm not "Really" into Battletech. Or how I'm a White Knight or something other to create ANOTHER "Us vs them" division.

You may have a valid point and a genuine beef with PGI. But PGI's own forums are not the place to air it because they can (And should) moderate it. It's bad for public image. You also can't have it with the BT community because they'll demand blood for making the Timber Wolf's cockpit a little smaller or something.

Edited by Pika, 09 September 2014 - 04:54 PM.

[Mawai]

Wow ... it is hard to express how strongly I disagree with your position ... but I really like the first response to your comment.

PGI is running a business. Absolutely true.

Ongoing revenue is essential to the corporation and game survival. Also absolutely true.

PGI makes the decisions. Absolutely true.

It is the community's fault for not supporting PGI 100% with both money and slavish agreement with any decisions taken. Absolutely false.

Its the community's fault that PGI does things that some people in the community are strongly critical of ... and that PGI has often failed in the past to sufficiently well communicate with their stakeholders. Absolutely false.

I use the term stakeholders quite literally. There may be people who own PGI or have shares in the company who have a vested interest in its success ... but in the free 2 play area of gaming the success or failure of a game rests with the community since it is those individuals who ultimately pay the bills ... who spend real money to purchase the digital content provided by the company. Developers of free 2 play games ignore their fan base at their peril since they require the fans to spend money to continue in existence. This makes the fans stakeholders in the sense that they have a vested interest in seeing the company succeed and because the company needs these people in order to succeed.

So ... WHY is there significant negativity on these forums. History obviously. For whatever reasons, PGI has often said one thing and then done nothing or done something else. They have implemented controversial design decisions and then refused to look at them again (or at least that is what the lack of communication on these topics implies).

Some of this may have been due to their interaction with IGP. We can hope so ... in which case PGI may change its corporate attitude towards these forums and player feedback. Time will tell.

But the bottom line is that the community is NOT the problem. There is a large number of fanatic supporters of this franchise ... just look at how many founders are still around. The problem has been the failure of PGI to properly manage community expectations and to communicate clearly and concisely what they are doing, why they are doing it and when it will be done.

... and why should they do any of that ... BECAUSE the community are all effectively stakeholders in the game and it is their funding that ultimately keeps the lights on.

[Mcgral18]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

The real problem with PGI isn't being slow to deliver content, their management of funds, or their business decisions... the REAL problem here is all of US the community.

You complain because they don't deliver content fast enough for you. How much time and money (yes time is money, wages are one of your highest operating costs in any business) have they had to spend to make changes that people in these forums have complained, whined, and QQ'd for. One of PGI's biggest mistakes is that they pay TOO much attention to their community and we end up with them trying to appease the vocal minority while the silent majority are left scratching their heads.

You complain about the order in which they release content. I want community warfare, no wait I want maps, no wait I want clans, no wait i want community warfare.

SRM hit detection, broken for months

coolant shots for MC only, which they rightfully revised

3rd person view, which is fairly useless, wasted much development time

Islands, vocal minorities...on their forums, about their long standing FOUNDER customers...do we still have 50% retention?

Increasingly expensive mech packs

Maps....well, maybe one of these weeks.



Some of these can be attributed to IGP, which is no longer in control, and while PGIs communication has been half decent over the past week, that can be linked to Transverse (?/P2/AUTE) and the release of yet another Clan mech pack over the next few weeks.

I'll give them a chance, since they combat itself isn't half bad, but I enjoyed it more two years ago than in it's current state. The game has declined in my opinion, why that happened doesn't have a full explanation.

Edited by Mcgral18, 10 September 2014 - 04:07 AM.

[Tor6]

No.

[WarHippy]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

The real problem with PGI isn't being slow to deliver content, their management of funds, or their business decisions... the REAL problem here is all of US the community.

You complain because they don't deliver content fast enough for you. How much time and money (yes time is money, wages are one of your highest operating costs in any business) have they had to spend to make changes that people in these forums have complained, whined, and QQ'd for. One of PGI's biggest mistakes is that they pay TOO much attention to their community and we end up with them trying to appease the vocal minority while the silent majority are left scratching their heads.

You complain about the order in which they release content. I want community warfare, no wait I want maps, no wait I want clans, no wait i want community warfare. We as the collective gaming community have rejected the traditional model of subscription based games, we want free to play. Well guess what? Free to play isn't free. It's going to cost somewhere. You know what PGI has to do before they work on implementing community warfare? They have to BRING IN REVENUE, and that may come in the form of a big clan release in order to get you to *gasp* spend real money on buying clan packs. How in the world can anyone play a free to play game and complain about pay to win. You do realise that if these guys don't come up with a way to separate you from your cash then there will not be a game to play right? You think developers and artists and servers are free.

What PGI does with their money is none of your damn business. You aren't congress, you aren't the President and you certainly aren't an invester. You pay them for a service.. I for one am happy to have this game. It's lots of fun and very well done. Every game has it's share of bugs and glitches. Less QQ and more *pewpew* If you don't like it, don't play it. I know this will more than likely be flamed to hell but I had to give my 2 cents.

So much nonsense, but I can't be surprised by someone with so much self importance that they like their own post.
http://www.youtube.c...e&v=zq7Eki5EZ8o Seems fitting.

[Tristan Winter]

And here I thought the players were angry because PGI took the game in a different direction than what was presented in 2012. Now it turns out PGI took the game in a different direction because the players were so angry.

I had it all backwards. My bad, OP. Thanks for the clarification.

[Pika]

Mawai, on 09 September 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

So ... WHY is there significant negativity on these forums. History obviously.

I'm just going to zero in on this for now and skip the rest of your post, which is personal opinion, as you say yourself.

The reason there is significant negativity here is because it's a video game forum. Go find any game forum for a released game that is NOT full of people whining about the devs and the balance and then PLEASE tell me what it is. Because I have yet to find one. Wasn't there a quote floating around a few years back that said "The fastest way to hate the game you love is to visit it's forum." or something?

The other reason is a bit more controversial. Read my post above this. It's the Battletech community. It hasn't been happy since 1987. Sorry, I've been there for all of it. It's never once been happy to play with bit stompy bots with car cannons.

[Thizcrusher]

I rarely come to these forums, for the sole reason that there are people like you here WarHippy. So i'm sorry if I hit the like button in an attempt to be notified about posts here.

[Thizcrusher]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 09 September 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

And here I thought the players were angry because PGI took the game in a different direction than what was presented in 2012. Now it turns out PGI took the game in a different direction because the players were so angry.

I had it all backwards. My bad, OP. Thanks for the clarification.

While I played a little in closed beta I was kinda off and on with this game until the last 6 months or so. So i'm really curious what is the direction they presented in 2012 that they didn't stick with?

[Tristan Winter]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

While I played a little in closed beta I was kinda off and on with this game until the last 6 months or so. So i'm really curious what is the direction they presented in 2012 that they didn't stick with?

There's literally hundreds, if not thousands of threads discussing this. Google and forum search is your friend.

If you're really curious, I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding it all. I hope you update this thread when you do

[Odins Fist]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

The real problem with PGI isn't being slow to deliver content, their management of funds, or their business decisions... the REAL problem here is all of US the community.

I cannot stress just how wrong that statement is...
ALSO, the majority of US (The Community) never expected FREE EVERYTHING, we knew/know it's going to cost for things in MWO and did since before it was in ALpha..

The Community are NOT the developers of MWO.
The Community do NOT make any final decisions on marketing or pricing for MWO.
The Community does not have the final word on weapons balance (even quite good recommendations have been ignored or disregarded, even though people were ASKED for feedback in the public test server)
The Community does not decide who to hire, how to use resources or make ANY decisions.

PGI are adults, they have big boy pants and obviously they put them on, or we wouldn't even have MWO to begin with..

Blaming the Customer base and Community (forums or not), is just blatently WRONG.

PGI have been in control of EVERYTHING to do with MWO, the game development, management of the forums and the pricing, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

PGI has their Big Boy Pants on, they are adults, it's their game.. If PGI mis-manages anything to do with MWO, then it's on their shoulders ALONE.

ANY forum will have some sort of negativity within it, this is the internet it should be a given.

Blaming the Community for anything to do with any development issues with MWO is wrong .

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

You (The Community) complain about the order in which they release content. I want community warfare, no wait I want maps, no wait I want clans, no wait i want community warfare.

Well when told "90 DAYS" or "SOON" or "by 2013" etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...
Also being told certain things would NEVER be implemented, then are...
You can expect "PAYING" customers to get a bit short on patience.

Please don't try and sell the old "The Community is the Problem", that is so awful.

Please don't lump me/us (as a community) in with your self diagnosis.
.
.
Self-blame: The Ultimate Emotional Abuse
http://www.psycholog...emotional-abuse

"Self Blame leads to shame and, in the context of self-blame that means self-shaming. Taking on responsibility that is not our own.."

FYI, I do not Blame myself or The Community for anything that goes wrong with MWO..
MWO has it's overlords (PGI) they are responsible for EVERYTHING.

HAVE A SWELL DAY

Edited by Odins Fist, 09 September 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[FDJustin]

StaggerCheck, on 09 September 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

It struck me last night that the amount of flexibility we have in the game, from the Mech Lab to the banked Premium time, is kind of embarrassing when compared to other games. Yes, they miss deadlines. Yes, they are guilty of over promising content while a big sale is coming up. Yes, they are guilty of giving us the impression that our feedback is welcome, even though 99% of it seems to be chucked out the window come release of something we're given a peek at. But I have been sitting on a pile of premium time just waiting for the correct moment to activate it, and I'm allowed crazy freedom in the Mech Lab that has probably, over the long haul, caused this game innumerable balance problems with the kid-bashing we're allowed to do. You don't see that kind of freedom in War Thunder or World of Tanks, that's for sure.



Stockholm (even though I suspect you were joking around, Kommissar) lol

I'm not entirely sure if you're serious about that or not. The mech lab is the game for me. The combat is just there to test my tweaks.

[Thizcrusher]

I think some of you guys are mistakenly thinking that I am talking about the problems with mechwarrior online.. If you look at the thread title it doesn't say 'The REAL problem with MWO'