175 replies to this topic

[Odins Fist]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

I think some of you guys are mistakenly thinking that I am talking about the problems with mechwarrior online.. If you look at the thread title it doesn't say 'The REAL problem with MWO'

PGI is developing MWO... You used examples from MWO.

Also you blamed the Community for what PGI does or develops, you even gave examples of MWO player base wanting Community Warfare <--- an MWO feature..

You were Directly using MWO as part of your argument in a MWO forum..

If you are trying to post about something that has NOTHING to do with MWO, then maybe the Barracks or Off Topic Discussions is a better place for this. If Off Topic Discussions still exists on these forums.

HAVE A SWELL DAY

Edited by Odins Fist, 09 September 2014 - 05:48 PM.

[Thizcrusher]

What else do you want me to use examples from other than what they are doing with MWO.

You do realise they they only HOURS ago announced a 2nd game that we are only just now finding out about, which coincidentally was addressed by the comment 'what PGI does with their money is none of your business'

HAVE A NICE DAY

[Odins Fist]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

I think some of you guys are mistakenly thinking that I am talking about the problems with mechwarrior online.. If you look at the thread title it doesn't say 'The REAL problem with MWO'

.

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

What.... do you want me to use examples from other than what they are doing with MWO.

.
YES I do..

Edited by Odins Fist, 09 September 2014 - 06:02 PM.

[DONTOR]

Fuligin, on 09 September 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

I see this in a lot of game forums and I guess all I can say is you are absolutely spot on right. Dissatisfied paying customers like me are definitely the problem. I guess I will just have to take my money and my opinions elsewhere to save them the hassle of dealing with either.

Please do!

[Thizcrusher]

Odins Fist, on 09 September 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

.

.
YES I do..

1. stop editing the quotes
2. You tell me what other game they have worked on in any recent period of time and I will gladly use examples from that game, and don't say mechwarrior tactics because that is pure speculation that they funneled money into that game.

[Odins Fist]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

1. Stuff...
2. You tell me what other game they have worked on in any recent period of time and I will gladly use examples from that game, and don't say mechwarrior tactics because that is pure speculation that they funneled money into that game.

No, you tell me... The burden of proof is on YOU, not me..

I.E. It's your thread.

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

The Real Problem With Pgi

Edited by Odins Fist, 09 September 2014 - 06:11 PM.

[Donas]

Pika, on 09 September 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

"The fastest way to hate the game you love is to visit it's forum."

Wow.... Thats priceless. lol

So true...

Just when I start feeling really comfortable with where the gameplay is, and weapon balance, I pop into the forums only to realize that its actually nearly unplayable... who knew! lol

[EgoSlayer]

Odins Fist, on 09 September 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

I cannot stress just how wrong that statement is...
ALSO, the majority of US (The Community) never expected FREE EVERYTHING, we knew/know it's going to cost for things in MWO and did since before it was in ALpha..

The Community are NOT the developers of MWO.
The Community do NOT make any final decisions on marketing or pricing for MWO.
The Community does not have the final word on weapons balance (even quite good recommendations have been ignored or disregarded, even though people were ASKED for feedback in the public test server)
The Community does not decide who to hire, how to use resources or make ANY decisions.

PGI are adults, they have big boy pants and obviously they put them on, or we wouldn't even have MWO to begin with..

Blaming the Customer base and Community (forums or not), is just blatently WRONG.

PGI have been in control of EVERYTHING to do with MWO, the game development, management of the forums and the pricing, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

PGI has their Big Boy Pants on, they are adults, it's their game.. If PGI mis-manages anything to do with MWO, then it's on their shoulders ALONE.

ANY forum will have some sort of negativity within it, this is the internet it should be a given.

Blaming the Community for anything to do with any development issues with MWO is wrong .



Well when told "90 DAYS" or "SOON" or "by 2013" etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...
Also being told certain things would NEVER be implemented, then are...
You can expect "PAYING" customers to get a bit short on patience.

Please don't try and sell the old "The Community is the Problem", that is so awful.

Please don't lump me/us (as a community) in with your self diagnosis.
.
.
Self-blame: The Ultimate Emotional Abuse
http://www.psycholog...emotional-abuse

"Self Blame leads to shame and, in the context of self-blame that means self-shaming. Taking on responsibility that is not our own.."

FYI, I do not Blame myself or The Community for anything that goes wrong with MWO..
MWO has it's overlords (PGI) they are responsible for EVERYTHING.

HAVE A SWELL DAY

Quoting this because liking it isn't enough.

The OP would be correct if all of the above didn't happen.

PGI brought this on themselves by over promising and under delivering.

It would be an entirely different story if they had never given any dates on CW for example. Define it as one of the pillars, but don't say it's going to be out in 90 days and then miss that deadline for literally years. If you can't meet the deadline - don't define the date, it's that simple.
It's one thing to have a game element on the back burner without any schedule while working on/fixing other issues, but as soon as you give out dates you set the expectations. 100% PGI's fault. The community didn't set those dates, but the community has held PGI accountable for them.

Have they gotten better this year? Yes. Does that mean that the past gets whitewashed away? No. Trust has to be regained, again 100% PGI's fault for over promising.

[Thizcrusher]

Apparently it went WAYYYYYY over your head.. psst... mwo is the only game they've been working on so obviously i will use examples from it when talking about their actions as a company

[ApolloKaras]

Bishop, are these the kind of posts you were talking about?

You know the ones that aren't constructive by any means, the ones that only incite a flame war?


http://mwomercs.com/...ed-fresh-start/

[Rebas Kradd]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

What PGI does with their money is none of your damn business. You aren't congress, you aren't the President and you certainly aren't an invester.

I disagree. Crowdfunding is an investment in my view. A lot of people wouldn't have opened their wallets to begin with if they hadn't liked the original vision, and now that it's incomplete, a lot of the angst against PGI is well-earned.

Angst, I said. Not flat-out calumny and defamation of character. There's a limit.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 09 September 2014 - 06:24 PM.

[Odins Fist]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

Apparently it went WAYYYYYY over your head..

"FACEPALM"...

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

I'm 12 and what the **** is going on in here?

I like how Thzcruser couches things by opening up with "We are the problem! All of us!"

And then proceeds to explain how all of you are ruining the game by expecting things. (but not him. he never wanted anything.) What did we expect? The stuff that was explained to us many times that would be parts of the game. We waited years even. How dare we expect anything? We haven't the right. Don't we know this game was free?! We have no business asking PGI what they did with the money and where the content is after 2+ years. We should be happy we even have games to play.

If you want to start a new mea culpa cult, go ahead. But I don't think even PGI would agree with you. We are not the problem.

But you ThizCrusher, you are part of the problem.

Edited by ArchMage Sparrowhawk, 09 September 2014 - 06:37 PM.

[ApolloKaras]

ArchMage Sparrowhawk, on 09 September 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

I'm 12 and what the **** is going on in here?

Its going... to K-Town aaaaaalllllllllllllllllll aaaabbbbbbooooaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrddddddddddd

[Thizcrusher]

ArchMage Sparrowhawk, on 09 September 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

I'm 12 and what the **** is going on in here?

I like how Thzcruser couches things by opening up with "We are the problem! All of us!"

And then proceeds to explain how all of you are ruining the game by expecting things. (but not him. he never wanted anything.) What did we expect? The stuff that was explained to us many times that would be parts of the game. We waited years even. How dare we expect anything? We haven't the right. Don't we know this game was free?! We have no business asking PGI what they did with the money and where the content is after 2+ years. We should be happy we even have games to play.

If you want to start a new mea culpa cult, go ahead. But I don't think even PGI would agree with you. We are not the problem.

But you ThizCrusher, you are part of the problem.

What I want you to understand (which was really the whole point of the post) is that in a free to play model certain things have to take priority i.e. revenue. Just maybe by giving us some of the things we wanted and asked for, other things that we wanted were delayed as a result. How long ? We don't know. We wanted more maps... how long did that take to work on? For all we know without releasing the clan invasion before CW PGI would have went bottoms up. How long was CW delayed because of clan warfare. We really don't know a whole lot about any of it.. all we know is that we want our cake and we want it now.

[Mcgral18]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

What I want you to understand (which was really the whole point of the post) is that in a free to play model certain things have to take priority i.e. revenue. Just maybe by giving us some of the things we wanted and asked for, other things that we wanted were delayed as a result. How long ? We don't know. We wanted more maps... how long did that take to work on?

I'll wager 90 days.

[Odins Fist]

Mcgral18, on 09 September 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

I'll wager 90 days.

Priceless... I love it..!!!

[Mawai]

Pika, on 09 September 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

I'm just going to zero in on this for now and skip the rest of your post, which is personal opinion, as you say yourself.

The reason there is significant negativity here is because it's a video game forum. Go find any game forum for a released game that is NOT full of people whining about the devs and the balance and then PLEASE tell me what it is. Because I have yet to find one. Wasn't there a quote floating around a few years back that said "The fastest way to hate the game you love is to visit it's forum." or something?

The other reason is a bit more controversial. Read my post above this. It's the Battletech community. It hasn't been happy since 1987. Sorry, I've been there for all of it. It's never once been happy to play with bit stompy bots with car cannons.

Hmm.

I have probably participated more in the MWO forums than any others recently.

However, I have NEVER seen the same level of negativity in the EVE online forums except for when CCP switched their development focus to Walking In Stations and the NEX store where they sold monocles for $30.00 or something like that. CCP then responded to the community concerns (perhaps after substantial pressure was applied by the community) and reversed course focusing on making a better space game. Other than that, you can always find someone to complain but no one who is generally as negative on the game and design choices as found here (though I admit being a bit irritated with CCP the last patch where they failed to test properly and accidentally wiped out all my overview settings ... but that is a different story ).

Let's see what other game forums have seemed better?

Dragonage, Skyrim, Shadow of the Avatar (though it is in alpha at the moment), D&D Online, Everquest, WOW (I didn't visit this one that often and only in the first year after it was released when I actually played it), and several others I can't recall specifically at the moment ... mostly single player role playing games.

As for Battletech ... I've played since about '82 and honestly don't recall real people in real life being all that bitter about the game ... they play it because they like it ... because it is fun. Clans are more powerful in Battletech so you balance it against more IS assets or use one of the point value systems to even things out. If power-gamers want to spoil your fun by using/abusing rules to suit themselves ... play with someone else ... so, at least in my part of the Battletech community (admittedly a small sample) there really hasn't been much of an issue ... maybe it is the folks you play with?

As for PGI's vision of Mechwarrior ... the changes from TT they have chosen to make are fine with me. A real time first person shooter version of battletech requires a lot of compromise to work in a balanced fashion for multiplayer. I might have made different design choices in the beginning or used closed beta to test a number of different sets of numbers for the weapons (i.e. PGI chose to keep the damage and heat numbers for the weapons, change their cooldown/rate of fire and double armor and internal structure ... whereas, I think I would have started by looking at the TT DPS and HPS values for the 10 second game turn and scale the MWO weapons accordingly ... if rate of fire was increased the heat and damage would decrease keeping the dps and hps constant ... armor would start at TT values ... if PGI actually tried a scheme like this ... it was before I started in closed beta).

I think PGI has missed out on a lot of opportunities to test out what would work best and create the best game ... but that is just my opinion ... maybe they can fix things going forward now that they are presumably in full control of the license and IP for the next few years.

Edited by Mawai, 09 September 2014 - 07:00 PM.

[Thizcrusher]

Mcgral18, on 09 September 2014 - 06:51 PM, said:

I'll wager 90 days.

Ok so lets say 90 days for the maps, how much time collectively do you think they spent on all the new mechs, also on the clan invasion? All this stuff adds up

[Mcgral18]

Thizcrusher, on 09 September 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

Ok so lets say 90 days for the maps, how much time collectively do you think they spent on all the new mechs, also on the clan invasion? All this stuff adds up

I don't suppose you know the history behind "90 days"?

You've certainly been around long enough.