114 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 September 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

There's no such thing as stunlock in MWO because here are no weapons that prevent you from moving, which is what stunlock is.

Thats right, all it does is make you blind and prevent you to play.

Yeonne Greene, on 12 September 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

All I want is for your cross-hairs to wobble so feverishly under fire from multiple ACs that you can't really aim without making an educated guess.

Im not sure what you mean by educated guess, You cant aim if your cross air move feverishly, are you keeping the model of having perfect accuracy underfire and just havinf the crossair move? Im not some old blind asian master who can fight against the whole town despite being blind or drunk, no one is. Recoil should be on both end.

Edited by DAYLEET, 12 September 2014 - 09:40 PM.

[Helsbane]

One of the primary reasons that autocannons have such a high weight in this game is due to all the recoil absorbing systems included. Realistically, the actual cannon is pretty simple, and doesn't weigh much. It's the feed system, aiming actuators, and recoil dampeners that make them so damn heavy. So, with all that weight already going to absorb recoil on the firing end, I don't believe we should suffer cockpit shake from our own weapons.

Now, before someone goes and posts a video showing a modern tank rocking backwards as it fires its main gun, let's clear something up. A tank is basically a big armored brick with a single, relatively simple, recoil buffering system. I used to work on them, have taken the entire 120mm apart, etc. etc. so I know its pretty damn basic in there. Now, mechs big bore guns use a more advanced recoil buffer to take out the shock of firing - AND - have a muscle and skeletal structure to take the recoil. Tanks, not so much. Everything is pretty solidly connected in there, and a brick tends to move as one big lump when you shove that much recoil through it.

As for rounds impacting and causing shake, oh yeah! An IS AC20 should damn near knock you off your feet. Clan AC... not so much. They're more like automatic tennis ball launchers set on high. Annoying, but not really devastating as far as impact goes. I don't believe that AC2 rounds should create such a large volume of smoke when they impact. They're small explosive shells, not Batman's smoke pellets. The more smoke, the more energy wasted, so why does a gun system in the year 3050 use what looks to be black powder in their explosives? Cut the smoke down to a third for all cannons.

[Y E O N N E]

That's not at all how 'Mechs work in BattleTech and they actually do suffer from the effects of recoil, accounted for in a gunnery skill check. There is no fancy shock-absorbing tech and there is no analogue to the skill-check in this game. Using the skeletal/muscle structure as an excuse for no recoil is ill-conceived: do you not have any recoil when you fire a rifle? There are many systems on rifles designed to reduce impulse on the individual firing the weapon, but there is always some form of recoil felt by the user which he must compensate for. The Kriss, AEK-917, etc...none of them are perfect.

DAYLEET, on 12 September 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

Thats right, all it does is make you blind and prevent you to play.

You can still run, shoot, jump, twist, etc. Bottom line, it's not the same thing as stun-lock because you still have options. The best one to do is run and break the rain. ACs aren't even the weapons that blind you in this game, it's LRMs. I can shoot through a hail of CUAC/5 fire from a Direwolf just fine, though I should be suffering from more rattle..

Quote

Im not sure what you mean by educated guess, You cant aim if your cross air move feverishly, are you keeping the model of having perfect accuracy underfire and just havinf the crossair move? Im not some old blind asian master who can fight against the whole town despite being blind or drunk, no one is. Recoil should be on both end.

First, I definitely agree that recoil should be on both ends and I said as much in the previous post, too. Without that, it's too easy for the AC user.

Second, you know about where your guns should be pointing by running a mental average. That is, you mentally figure where the center is in all of the swaying and use that as your aiming point rather than the crosshair. That's what I mean by "educated guess." However, the goal of having ACs rock you is to get you to back off because you can't aim your front-loaded weapons; you shouldn't be able to just fire through the rattle because that would encourage people to do things like put a piece of tape in the center of the monitor.

What I don't want to do is have explosions from AC rounds blind you. That's not cool and was a really poor design decision with LRMs. I just want you to shake around. It's up to the person using the ACs to compensate for the recoil on his end to keep the rounds hitting you and to keep you within optimum firing range to maximize impulse.

[El Bandito]

Russ Bullock, on 10 September 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

We are taking a tally of missing weapon modules now and will let you know when they will be added.

Russ, is Ghost Heat for AC2 really necessary? The weapon runs hot enough as is, and aside from few mechs, no one truly boats them to much effect. If people complain about the shakes from the weapon then shouldn't impulse be lowered instead of GH nerf?

[Kyzar Kon]

(Sarcasm Mode: Engaged)

Wait! What's an AC/2?

[Wrathful Scythe]

Russ Bullock, on 10 September 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

We are taking a tally of missing weapon modules now and will let you know when they will be added.

So.... still nothing new on the AC/2 module? Can't be because the AC/2 is to strong. :/

[FupDup]

Wrathful Scythe, on 03 December 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

So.... still nothing new on the AC/2 module? Can't be because the AC/2 is to strong. :/

What's really funny is that the LB-2X already has one, and even then hardly anybody ever uses it.

[Ph30nix]

FupDup, on 03 December 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

What's really funny is that the LB-2X already has one, and even then hardly anybody ever uses it.

want to see something funny, take a direwolf and load it with clan LBx2, completely useless but its got the old IS Ac/2 fire rate (at least the feel of it) it does run a little hot though but worth it.

One big thing that would help with AC/2's if they dont want to get rid of ghost heat completely
CAP THE EXPONENTIAL HEAT GROWTH FROM CHAIN FIRING!!!!

I know the .5 window is there to help just keep people from quickly firing multiple groups and getting same effect as alpha firing. But that heat window needs to be completely refreshed EVERY .5 seconds after you fire the first weapon and not .5 seconds after no shots fired. Because lets face it AC/2's are the weapon that really gets hosed by how its set up now others do a little but its not as bad.
The fact i can fire 4 ppc's over just short of 2 seconds and trigger ghost heat or fire 4 ppcs in .5 seconds and not trigger ghost heat is pretty pathetic.
so you can visualize it
Ghost heat
Time 0- - - - -.5 - - - - -1 - - - - -1.5 - - - - -2
shot X- - - - x.5 - - - -X1 - - - - x1.5 - - - - x2
so my third shot (X) and fourth shot would both get ghost heat even though they are all spread out over 2 seconds (well 1.9 seconds)
no ghost heat
Time 0- - - - -.5 - - - - -1
shot XX- - - -.5 XX- - - 1
2 shots to start the timer, then 2 shots at the .5 second window no ghost heat.....

So yea having ghost heat punish any system of chain firing is pretty flawed.

Edited by Ph30nix, 03 December 2014 - 12:30 PM.

[ollo]

Russ Bullock, on 10 September 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

We are taking a tally of missing weapon modules now and will let you know when they will be added.

Appreciated, but before modules, quirks and stuff you should discuss the current state of the wapon's ghost heat and 40% nerfed cooldown. Just wanted to remind you of the time when the weapon was viable in itself, thank you.

[Crunk Prime]

With the new change to the Dragon-5N's quirks they are basically admitting that even triple AC2's buffed with quirks are terrible, so they are switching it to UAC5's.

Instead of fixing the AC2 to make the quirks work, they are just removing the AC2 quirks all together. Makes no sense.

[Joseph Mallan]

Carrie Harder, on 10 September 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

There is hope for the dakka after all!

Doesn't the AC2 already have one of the shortest cooldowns in the game???
0.72 of a second...
...
...

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 December 2014 - 06:17 AM, said:

Doesn't the AC2 already have one of the shortest cooldowns in the game???
0.72 of a second...
...
...
-pic-

And pretty much everything else got reduced with modules, so it's only fair for the AC/2 (and UAC/2, and CAC/2) to be reduced as well.

[Hillslam]

The fact that the AC2 remains completely gimped since before the introduction of clans and since the balancing and introduction of quirks makes NO sense.

The reason for the AC2 gimping has been resurrected many times over by other clan and IS builds. So that reason is gone, and yet the AC2 remains in prison.

(and I dont even use the blasted things, sold my jagers ages ago)

[FupDup]

Hillslam, on 04 December 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

The fact that the AC2 remains completely gimped since before the introduction of clans and since the balancing and introduction of quirks makes NO sense.

The reason for the AC2 gimping has been resurrected many times over by other clan and IS builds. So that reason is gone, and yet the AC2 remains in prison.

(and I dont even use the blasted things, sold my jagers ages ago)

Paul probably got his screen shook up by a 6 AC/2 Macro Jager once upon a time.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 04 December 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

Paul probably got his screen shook up by a 6 AC/2 Macro Jager once upon a time.

Seven Tenths of a second Cooldown. I don't see a need to make it cycle any faster.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 December 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

Seven Tenths of a second Cooldown. I don't see a need to make it cycle any faster.

It's better to have and not need...

[ZippySpeedMonkey]

Ah well, i'll say it...

The Ac2's don't need a cooldown module..

With the recent changes to the effectivness of the Ac2's (range reduction, Rof) I'd be inclinded to say it's time to either reduce or eliminate the effects of Ghost heat on the 4 Ac2 builds....

Let the nay saying commence...


P.s. I might be a little biased as I do love my 4 Ac2 jagr. It's always been a fun/ hard build to play..

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 04 December 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

It's better to have and not need...

SEVEN TENTHS OF A SECOND! Its a stupid request!

I'm a power player anyway gimme a damage buffing Module and I'll spend/grind/hawk whatever is needed to increase the damage I do per shot in game!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 December 2014 - 10:31 AM.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 December 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

SEVEN TENTHS OF A SECOND! Its a stupid request!

You DARE to refuse MOAR DAKKA?!

Joseph Mallan, on 04 December 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I'm a power player anyway gimme a damage buffing Module and I'll spend/grind/hawk whatever is needed to increase the damage I do per shot in game!

If PGI wasn't fixated on having Autocannon damage per shot being based on name (i.e. AC/10 "must," by their logic, always do 10.0 damage per shot, never higher or lower), then I'd be okay with that instead of an AC/2 RoF mod. But since they're not willing to make that leap, I want moar dakka.

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 04 December 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

And pretty much everything else got reduced with modules, so it's only fair for the AC/2 (and UAC/2, and CAC/2) to be reduced as well.

The reason the AC2 doesn't have a cooldown module is that the closer it approaches .5s the more it "accidentally" triggers ghost heat.

This, because group-fired AC2's tend to "desync" slightly, already spreading their fire over several hundredths of a second. As soon as there's <0.5s between any two AC2 rounds, Ghost Heat starts counting. As this desync keeps compounding, it tends to randomly but very rapidly ramp up ghost heat even in situations where there aren't enough AC/2's firing to officially generate ghost heat.

Then, of course, you get the joyous situation where someone has 2 AC2's in two separate firing groups (say, one for each arm on a Jagermech as an example). Fire them "offset" and you get ghost heat practically instantly, fire them together and the closer to .5s they cycle, the closer to impossible it is to avoid that situation.


Of course, the good solution here is to just remove AC/2 ghost heat (because seriously, **** ghost heat on AC/2's!!! they're the WORST autocannon, and require effectively 100% face time while spreading damage!)