632 replies to this topic

[Tombstoner]

IceGryphon, on 12 September 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

ECM already has counters to "Rock, Paper, Scissors"
Mind you these are only against 1 ECM unit sometimes.
1. ECM can counter ECM. (There is a Key Labeled J on the keyboard)
2. TAG can Counter ECM. (Most people are to selfish to carry it. because my 1 more medium laser)
TAG IT IS THE FASTEST LOCK OPTION!
3. BAP can counter ECM. (Once again most people are too Selfish to carry it. It is in almost every mech I own)
4. NARC can counter ECM. (YET AGAIN most people are too Selfish to carry it.)
5. UAV can counter ECM. (This is seriously slow to lock down the ECM Units, But my Selfish RED smoke attacks)
This could use a buff for lock times.

LRM's are not a problem because of things like RADAR DEP and learning how to walk perpendicular.
DO NOT BACK UP against a shower of LRMS, Walk Sideways to cover.

I am not seeing how ECM is a problem here?

Its too simplistic and if you don't win the MM lottery your basically playing rock paper scissors without the rock.

[Russ Bullock]

Shredhead, on 12 September 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

What does it matter? With these characters in the council this thing is bound to fail. There are enough "islanders" that aren't such gigantic jerks. Choose one of them, I'll support it.

Okay now hold it - For the record I dont view "Islanders" as those that disagree with me or PGI. I have claimed that term now for good humor opportunities. I think were all every one of us on this island together so let's make it work.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Shredhead, on 12 September 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

What does it matter? With these characters in the council this thing is bound to fail. There are enough "islanders" that aren't such gigantic jerks. Choose one of them, I'll support it.

I dont care whom you support. Still calling ppl names.. 10/10

[Tastian]

This could be a groundbreaking moment if this is true Russ. A player council and a vote that is seriously considered would go a long way in accountability for both PGI and the community. Thanks so much and I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops.

[Richard Warts]

I'm sorry but this thread is absurd. So let me get this straight, YOU don't want ECM to be an effective tool to counter indirect fire weapons i.e. LRMs?
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the game would be dominated almost exclusively by LRMs if ECM was nerfed. THAT would be the new meta and frankly if that were the case, it would kill the game. Period.
Honestly, not all, but some of you LRM spammers are really unbelievable in that you WHINE more than nearly any other player. You have teammates who can set their ECM to counter, you have UAV, you have NARC, you have Tag, you have BAP, you have LRM projectile speed increased, you have increased cockpit shake, (clan only) you have no minimum range, you have Target decay, what more do you need? Should we all just stand still for you and not fire back? Would that make the game more enjoyable?
Here's a tip, if indirect fire isn't working than go out to where the fight is and get the lock yourself. You might be surprised at just how effective direct firing your LRMs can be.
The most effective LRM players I've come across were people who weren't afraid to stick their necks out and direct fire their weapons, and those sort of players routinely score 800+ damage a game. So if you're having trouble killing anything with your LRMs then you're not playing them correctly.

[Shredhead]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 12 September 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

This right here is why we will never get 80%. Some people think that having 8 counters for overpowered ECM is considered Information Warfare.

No, it just shows that some people don't consider ECM such a big problem. That includes me.
It doesn't, however, mean that these same people won't engage in the discussion and try to do what seems (from their pov) the best for the game and the community. That includes me as well.

[TopDawg]

Russ Bullock, on 12 September 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

Yes I do want to keep these conditions in place, I think it is a good starting point. Also yes I do think it will be a good exercise for the community to truly get a sense of the vast amount of opinions within MWO and how difficult it is to listen to ideas and feedback and come up with a solution we think best meets the communities desires.

As to the 80% I am open to discussing the criteria with you. No of course it isn't 80% of entire player base, but it also can't be just the 100 most active people on the forums either which would be incredibly skewed. Units will need to make sure their player bases log into the forums at least to vote. There will need to be a continued dialogue on how we determine that the 80% is truly representative of today's active players.

I will continue to monitor the thread and situation. I can take some PM's but I encourage you to prove to PGI that you can come to consensus and work together.

I definitely commend you on trying to step up and do something different. I know that you're busy and take time out of doing other things to post these. I even think it's a good idea for you to try and expose/show the community at large what you try to deal with on what is likely a daily basis.

However, using words and phrases like 'prove to PGI' is just simply not a good way to word it, and I hope you can understand why, especially given what the recent impetus is for the improved communication.

Otherwise, good luck!

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Tabu 73, on 12 September 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

I'm sorry but this thread is absurd. So let me get this straight, YOU don't want ECM to be an effective tool to counter indirect fire weapons i.e. LRMs?

Bzzt. Wrong.

We want the whole system reworked, ECM, Information Warfare AND LRMs. We are not advocating to remove ECM without taking a look at missiles.

Pay attention before you write out a huge whining block of text.

[Punkass]

Heffay, on 12 September 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

I hereby nominate and elect myself as head of the Player Council. I will be taking applications for others to fill out the Council immediately. Just send a PM via these forums along with 1000 and your application will be processed in 6-8 weeks.

Heffay, I wouldn't vote for you to run a consortium of lemonade stands.

[IceGryphon]

Tombstoner, on 12 September 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Its too simplistic and if you don't win the MM lottery your basically playing rock paper scissors without the rock.

Ahhh Pubbies, Pubbies make me rage harder then glitches.
You are correct, Match Making can really SCREW YOU OVER Hard.

Here is a video to show you pain they can cause. (NO WATCHING THE MAP)

[Nalin]

Votanin FleshRender, on 12 September 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Sandpit seemed alright, but I've just browsed the reddit for the first time, didn't even know who most of those fellas were, and I gotta say, my takeaway was to believe Morson, Anders and co. would purposely sabotage the process. They have zero interest in seeing PGI succeed/repair the community at all.

I don't know about Victor Morson (he doesn't hang around with the WoL guys anymore), but know that WoL does want to see this succeed. Anders, Stalkerr, Chronojam [permabanned in exile], etc, all have expressed interest in doing this. Mintfrog might even be up to the task once he gets online and sees what is going on.

The only problem is that we put forth a tremendous amount of effort last year with #saveMWO and got nowhere. Actually, scratch that, I think we managed to find the quickest way to the trash bin. After that, we really want to start an initial dialogue first to see if PGI is actually interested in doing this. We don't want to put forth all the time and effort again to get nowhere.

Set us up to succeed and you can get the best brains in WoL to help you design your Role Warfare and Information Warfare pillars.

[REDACTED]

I am hopeful now that this game may turn into something that I want to play.

With relation to the topic of the Guardian suite/ECM: ghost target generation. How would it work, if implemented? I am of the mind that it be a distinct third mode, separate from disrupt and counter. Further, after having reread the Battletech rules regarding ghost target generation, I believe that a ECM equipped mech that is generating ghost targets should, in addition to its own red triangle and target box, generate a reasonable number, maybe three, additional red triangles and target boxes. These ghost targets, in my opinion, should be independently targetable and contain the information of either a randomly generated mech, or a randomly selected friendly mech, with a weighting towards the ECM mech's own lance. Additionally, these ghost targets should appear anywhere on the ground inside the 180m radius of the ECM. Please note that this is intended to include scenarios where the host mech can not itself be seen, but the ghost targets can be.

[Shredhead]

Russ Bullock, on 12 September 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Okay now hold it - For the record I dont view "Islanders" as those that disagree with me or PGI. I have claimed that term now for good humor opportunities. I think were all every one of us on this island together so let's make it work.

They gave this name to themselves after your now infamous quote. That's why I put it in asterisks. I want them back here and in the game, bar some very hard cases.

[Stormwolf]

Tabu 73, on 12 September 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

I'm sorry but this thread is absurd. So let me get this straight, YOU don't want ECM to be an effective tool to counter indirect fire weapons i.e. LRMs?

That's what AMS is for, at any rate, LRM's in the source material don't all hit all the time, fire a LRM 20 and 14 MIGHT hit.

[DracheM]

I hope this doesn't get buried, but a great example of / starting point for a complex and fun radar system in a game is the one in Allegiance (www.freeallegiance.org).

[Tombstoner]

Russ Bullock, on 12 September 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

Yes I do want to keep these conditions in place, I think it is a good starting point. Also yes I do think it will be a good exercise for the community to truly get a sense of the vast amount of opinions within MWO and how difficult it is to listen to ideas and feedback and come up with a solution we think best meets the communities desires.

As to the 80% I am open to discussing the criteria with you. No of course it isn't 80% of entire player base, but it also can't be just the 100 most active people on the forums either which would be incredibly skewed. Units will need to make sure their player bases log into the forums at least to vote. There will need to be a continued dialogue on how we determine that the 80% is truly representative of today's active players.

I will continue to monitor the thread and situation. I can take some PM's but I encourage you to prove to PGI that you can come to consensus and work together.

One possible way to improve player feed back would be to add an option for players they can click on to actively provide feed back in the form of a Q/A pop up after every drop. Again this is only for players who opt into the program. That way you can gather feed back real time from people who don't hit the forums. You can structure the question to be yes,no, or a,b,c, or fill in the blank. Do you like this map or don't and why? Actively polling active players yes is a "bit" more work but it's as inclusive as its gona get. you might even offer prizes for participating.

[Tastian]

Tabu 73, on 12 September 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

I'm sorry but this thread is absurd. So let me get this straight, YOU don't want ECM to be an effective tool to counter indirect fire weapons i.e. LRMs?
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the game would be dominated almost exclusively by LRMs if ECM was nerfed. THAT would be the new meta and frankly if that were the case, it would kill the game.

If ECM, C3, and shared targeting worked correctly, it would take alot of coordination for LRMs to lock targets out of view. Currently, LRMs can hit ANY target (within range) that your team has targeted. But shared target acquisition should only be available via TAG, UAV, Narc, or C3; not by anyone who has a target. And ECM would counter C3 and Narc and BAP and Artemis.

Edited by Tastian, 12 September 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[zortesh]

IceGryphon, on 12 September 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

ECM already has counters to "Rock, Paper, Scissors"
Mind you these are only against 1 ECM unit sometimes.
1. ECM can counter ECM. (There is a Key Labeled J on the keyboard)
2. TAG can Counter ECM. (Most people are to selfish to carry it. because my 1 more medium laser)
TAG IT IS THE FASTEST LOCK OPTION!
3. BAP can counter ECM. (Once again most people are too Selfish to carry it. It is in almost every mech I own)
4. NARC can counter ECM. (YET AGAIN most people are too Selfish to carry it.)
5. UAV can counter ECM. (This is seriously slow to lock down the ECM Units, But my Selfish RED smoke attacks)
This could use a buff for lock times.

LRM's are not a problem because of things like RADAR DEP and learning how to walk perpendicular.
DO NOT BACK UP against a shower of LRMS, Walk Sideways to cover.

I am not seeing how ECM is a problem here?

1: requires your ecm mech to be so close to the enemy it mayaswell be a suicide run vs any decent group... given it is the best counter.(also 99% of pugs have never heard of the j key, true story.)

2:tags great, cept for the whole, shoot back down the laser pointer for easy kill part, basically it is a really good weapon, cept for other people have guassrifles..

3: bap only helps the person using it, and only sometimes, if say 2 baps could actully deactivate 1 ecm it'd be worthwhile, yknow other then just sometimes letting you lock a target when under ecm.

4: ever try to simultaneously narc 3 ecm lights within 20 seconds? its virtually impossible unless there incompitwent light pilots, i've dont it lotsa times vs incompetent light pilots.

5:lock on speed problem... thou it is the only really reliable counter.

6: ppcs can turn off a ecm for about 3 seconds or so.. this needs upping to say 10 seconds.

[Crunk Prime]

Hey, just an idea. If we are going to be having some huge vote on weapon/ECM/whatever balance ideas, why not advertise it in the game launcher so that everyone playing the actual game sees it upon starting up the game and actually knows whats going on and can click it and be brought right into the thread?

[Livewyr]

Part one of my contribution towards this effort.

http://mwomercs.com/...g-the-problems/

(I recognize it is a new thread, and it is being linked here, but in the interest of keeping a thread to a narrow topic that can be tackled more effectively, I think it deserves its own without all the clutter.)