632 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

Just shoot ECM carriers with PPC what's the problem?

[Runs With Scissors]

zortesh, on 12 September 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

Narcs don't function inside a ecm bubble, I dunno why people think they do......
Agree about the bap turning off a hostile ecm, that'd be incredibly useful.

NARCs have been "upgraded" to counter ECM on the unit you NARC. BAP counters ECM within 120m

[Bhael Fire]

ECM = See the mech without a red rectangle?...shoot in the face...problem solved.

I swear this community is filled with MAN BABIES...that fockin' complain about EVERYTHING.

Ugh...

[Runs With Scissors]

kapusta11, on 12 September 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

Just shoot ECM carriers with PPC what's the problem?

that only works for a few seconds, not enough time for LRMs to connect. also it only works for a unit carrying ECM, not one protected by it making it very limited use

[kapusta11]

Bhael Fire, on 12 September 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

ECM = See the mech without a red rectangle?...shoot in the face...problem solved.

I swear this community is filled with MAN BABIES...that fockin' complain about EVERYTHING.

Ugh...

I agree, ECM is designed to counter LRMs, it doesn't make anyone immune to damage and on the maps like alpine, caustic, in some cases forest colony maybe even frozen city, effective use of NARCs, UAVs and PPC fire can bring victory to LRM heavy team, despite any ECM.

Edited by kapusta11, 12 September 2014 - 11:55 PM.

[Ozric]

People are actually defending ECM? Ye gads, what kind of messed up world are we living in?

Ditch Jesus box - Add Information Warfare pillar - Profit.

[Asmudius Heng]

Bhael Fire, on 12 September 2014 - 11:46 PM, said:

ECM = See the mech without a red rectangle?...shoot in the face...problem solved.

I swear this community is filled with MAN BABIES...that fockin' complain about EVERYTHING.

Ugh...

IT is not really ECM thats the problem ... ECM is simply the symptom of an overly simplistic info warfare pillar that needs more depth.

ECM was thrown in and then everything was built around it rather than it being a part of a more nuanced whole.

So fixing ECM is really useless - its about making information warfare much more interesting and allowing scouting for more than just ECM equipped mechs just for one!

[Bhael Fire]

Ozric, on 12 September 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

People are actually defending ECM? Ye gads, what kind of messed up world are we living in?

A f*cking stupid world where players need to know how to use counter-measures. It sucks!

[Lance425]

Where does the belief that everyone only wants to run LRM's come from? I own 69 mechs and not a single one is set up to spam LRM's.

The only reasons why someone should spam LRM's:

1. They are a new person to torso twist games.

2. They have the reaction times of a 70 year old. So need LRM's.

3. They are too obsessed with KDR and Cbills to understand that they make the game much less enjoyable for the rest of us....

There is a guy who I play with who is in his 60's and will often let his Grandchildren play the game with him. He can spam LRM's.

So don't be proud of that 1500 dmg match in your Stalker, instead say, "I should of had 2000 dmg because I was using so much skill....."

-------------------------------------

At the same time, don't ***** because you die to LRM's every match.

My personal motto is "Don't be a dumba$$." If you can't keep your head underneath a ridge or close enough to a tunnel, THEN you deserve to die.

[Asmudius Heng]

Bhael Fire, on 13 September 2014 - 12:07 AM, said:

A f*cking stupid world where players need to know how to use counter-measures. It sucks!

Ít is not the fact they cannot use countermeasures - its the way the entire thing was approached and implemented requiring hard counters which were only added later mind you.

The idea is to have a proper discussion about what ECM and info warfare should be - not just "I DUN LIK ECM!" vs "I LUV ECM!"

[Kjudoon]

Wait... did I just see the sign "LRMhatorQQ Zone Next 30 pages" wizz by?

To quote Red One... Stay on target.

Edited by Kjudoon, 13 September 2014 - 12:48 AM.

[MischiefSC]

So how do we fix ECM to make it a proper aspect of the information warfare pillar?

Yes yes, we want a huge overhaul. Maybe some day when you're older.

Right now you've got this thing right here in hand in front of you. What changes can you make to how ECM functions to make it work better and make people happier with that aspect of IW?

Enough fapping over do we need it/do we not need it, it's great/it's terrible.

What are some solid mechanical options on how it can function and similar changes to other IW components to make it a better overall experience?

[Berserker]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned, 18 pages is a lot to completely read.

I'd suggest if any ECM reforms propose weight or slot increases that we may want to propose the radical idea of scaling the weight/slots based on mech class. Example lights 2/2, mediums 3/3, heavy 4/4, assaults 5/5. I know few if any other items work this way but this would seem to encourage ECM in the lower weight classes and mesh best with role warfare.

Oh, and the single item I'd remove to reform ECM that I feel is the lowest hanging fruit is the individual masking of hitboxes. This single nerf is important especially in the higher weightclasses because targeting already damaged components is so key with them. Further, it makes the ECM more of an investment in team play than a personal defense shield, which I think is what we want.

[zortesh]

The real killer of part of ecm is the inability to effective communicate in pug matches, its impossible to really type "lance under ecm to our rear" in a battle, or even say "don't step around the corner" quickly enough, it wouldn't be near so bad if we could place down a enemy position marker or something, which would really help the scouting role for people who aren't on comms.

The other thing id say about ecm is the area is cover is possibly too large, and should be totally spherical not a cylinder that goes up endlessly, what i mean is if there hiding underneath on hpg the bubble on the top of hpg should be relatively small.


Speaking as a guy that narcs for a lrm team quite often i can say dealing with 3 ecm atlases is childs play, i can hit all 3 with narcs and stomp such a team with ease, but against a team with multiple ecm lights or mediums the lrm team will be stomped excepting extreme incompetence on the enemy's part, its actually my credo when it comes to lrming, a lrm team cannot beat a team with multiple competent ecm lights, because tagging them is impractical, narcing a good light pilot is laughable(watch them contemptously sidestep that narc beacon!), and any good team will shoot down a uav near instantly.

Actully why i switched to sniping mostly these days, its far easier, and after using a narc beacon hitting stuff with a guassrifle is laughably easy, sadly not as fun.

Edited by zortesh, 13 September 2014 - 01:28 AM.

[RedDragon]

Bhael Fire, on 13 September 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

Otherwise we will have some serious problems.

*snickers* What will you do? Set them on ignore?

[Sirius Drake]

Russ Bullock, on 12 September 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Okay how about this, this is what many of you have been waiting for:

Well first a question: Do you think you the community can come to an agreed upon consensus? One in which if the changes are implemented everyone says great job PGI on listening to us now we feel great about ECM and your ability to listen to feedback?

If the answer is Yes then I suggest the following:

You the community decide how your going to present a proposal, nominate a peer that you feel has the best handle on this, put together your own player council whatever you like but present a proposal that your peers vote on. The vote would likely need to be far greater than just 51% in favor. Perhaps something more like 80+%

At that point PGI will analyze the proposal, if we see any technical problems or balance problems that we feel perhaps you didnt see, we will point those items out to you. Then if necessary you can adjust your proposal and put it to a vote again, if successful PGI will again analyze and repeat if necessary until we have a final design solution for implementation.

PGI will then communicate how long it will take to implement with full explanation as to why, and we will patch the changes in upon the agreed upon delivery date. Once complete if this whole process has gone smoothly and civily we will proceed with doing things like this far more frequently or at least for other areas of the product that are controversial.

What do you say?

So Russ. What you propose Sounds like a pimped Version of the CSM from EvE online?
This idea might work.
I like it.

[ELHImp]

Russ Bullock, on 12 September 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Do you think you the community can come to an agreed upon consensus?

You the community decide how your going to present a proposal, nominate a peer that you feel has the best handle on this, put together your own player council whatever you like but present a proposal that your peers vote on. The vote would likely need to be far greater than just 51% in favor. Perhaps something more like 80+%

What do you say?

You know, if community need some management maybe community manager could help. I'm not quite sure, I don't have much experience, but it sounds logical at least.

[nonnex]

We (the community) should then elect some representatives right?

Not just for that Topic, it would be a good idea to have a community council in general which represents the concerns of the MWO players.
Well this will be hard but not impossible, just a matter of organisation.

We can stay to the Metagame here
How about that? (a Raw first throw of an representatives electing flow)

Edited by nonnex, 13 September 2014 - 02:19 AM.

[Sirius Drake]

nonnex, on 13 September 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

We (the community) should then elect some representatives right?

Not just for that Topic, it would be a good idea to have a community council in general which represents the concerns of the MWO players.
Well this will be hard but not impossible, just a matter of organisation.

We can stay to the Metagame here
How about that?

Imo thats a bit too much of an effort to get a Council together.

Edit:
And afaik loner are IS engine wise.

Edited by Sirius Drake, 13 September 2014 - 02:09 AM.

[Ryue]

Russ Bullock, on 12 September 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

Okay how about this, this is what many of you have been waiting for:

Well first a question: Do you think you the community can come to an agreed upon consensus? One in which if the changes are implemented everyone says great job PGI on listening to us now we feel great about ECM and your ability to listen to feedback?

If the answer is Yes then I suggest the following:

You the community decide how your going to present a proposal, nominate a peer that you feel has the best handle on this, put together your own player council whatever you like but present a proposal that your peers vote on. The vote would likely need to be far greater than just 51% in favor. Perhaps something more like 80+%

At that point PGI will analyze the proposal, if we see any technical problems or balance problems that we feel perhaps you didnt see, we will point those items out to you. Then if necessary you can adjust your proposal and put it to a vote again, if successful PGI will again analyze and repeat if necessary until we have a final design solution for implementation.

PGI will then communicate how long it will take to implement with full explanation as to why, and we will patch the changes in upon the agreed upon delivery date. Once complete if this whole process has gone smoothly and civily we will proceed with doing things like this far more frequently or at least for other areas of the product that are controversial.

What do you say?

Just read that and: oO wow. For % I would say 2/3 instead of 80+% as that is the modern approach with most councils.
Have to admit that such a proposal was the last thing I EVER thought would come from a programming company as it can lead to things not calced in before (so to say letting the devil out of the box). Being a programmer myself I can only say wow I hope that this doesn't backfire ...that is a brave and bold step I would be scared to do myself! Good luck there with that!