68 replies to this topic

[Russ Bullock]

Thanks for this post, it obviously took a significant amount of your time to do so.

I hope you will appreciate and accept the fact that I will not be able to respond to the entire post in detail but lets discuss a few items here now.

Communication: Yes I think all have noticed a large increase in our communication recently and also a de-centralizing as well. As Paul mentioned we are going to update the community every 2 weeks on the progress of CW and supply screen shots as soon as possible.

Development: I want you to please believe me when I say we do actually feel like we are doing ONLY what the players want us to do in priority. But remember that the community has perhaps never agreed completely on anything so often times it comes down to us trying to find the perfect middle ground for all of us to exist in. This can make it look like we are not listening to your feedback or desires but in actuality we have been trying very hard to give you your desires.

There have been a very few exceptions like 3PV which were globally hated but our hands were somewhat tied by our publisher at time time. I don't think we will ever see situations like this again.

As to the smaller balance situations and items like that. It is true that Public test does not get a very good turn out, usually just 2-400 and I imagine all those that did not show up are not willing to leave the decision with those that did. It is a tough problem but we usually try to post about our changes. In the future we will try and post our desired changes ahead of time like we recently did with the CW post, which is something we have been fairly good at for the main features coming down the pipe.

I appreciate your recognizing that in 2014 we have met all of our deadlines, I would love if that sentiment spread throughout the community.

Feedback: Honestly I feel like we do this pretty frequently but usually ends in an argument because the community is quite split on these types of situations. But I can say we will try to be more consistent in posting our results and responses to your feedback.

Hope this helps.

[TercieI]

@Russ: massive kudos to you and the guys for the up-tick in comms. It is massively important. Please do keep it up.

The one thing I want to say is about PT: Find a way to let us keep the c-bills we make there. That is exactly all it would take for me to show up every time and I suspect that would go for many others.

Edited by Terciel1976, 11 September 2014 - 03:39 PM.

[Russ Bullock]

Terciel1976, on 11 September 2014 - 03:37 PM, said:

@Russ: massive kudos to you and the guys for the up-tick in comms. It is massively important. Please do keep it up. The one thing I want to say is about PT: Find a way to let us keep the c-bills we make there. That is exactly all it would take for me to show up every time and I suspect that would go for many others.

What about XP, stats? there would be a limit but want to make sure I understand what exactly would be required.

[NARCoMAN]

Russ Bullock, on 11 September 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Thanks for this post, it obviously took a significant amount of your time to do so.

I hope you will appreciate and accept the fact that I will not be able to respond to the entire post in detail but lets discuss a few items here now.

Communication: Yes I think all have noticed a large increase in our communication recently and also a de-centralizing as well. As Paul mentioned we are going to update the community every 2 weeks on the progress of CW and supply screen shots as soon as possible.

Development: I want you to please believe me when I say we do actually feel like we are doing ONLY what the players want us to do in priority. But remember that the community has perhaps never agreed completely on anything so often times it comes down to us trying to find the perfect middle ground for all of us to exist in. This can make it look like we are not listening to your feedback or desires but in actuality we have been trying very hard to give you your desires.

There have been a very few exceptions like 3PV which were globally hated but our hands were somewhat tied by our publisher at time time. I don't think we will ever see situations like this again.

As to the smaller balance situations and items like that. It is true that Public test does not get a very good turn out, usually just 2-400 and I imagine all those that did not show up are not willing to leave the decision with those that did. It is a tough problem but we usually try to post about our changes. In the future we will try and post our desired changes ahead of time like we recently did with the CW post, which is something we have been fairly good at for the main features coming down the pipe.

I appreciate your recognizing that in 2014 we have met all of our deadlines, I would appreciate that sentiment spreading throughout the community.

Feedback: Honestly I feel like we do this pretty frequently but usually ends in an argument because the community is quite split on these types of situations. But I can say we will try to be more consistent in posting our results and responses to your feedback.

Hope this helps.

Russ, you're the president and co-owner of the company. "I don't think we will ever see situations like this again." is not going to get my confidence back. "No, 3pv type 180's will never happen again." is what I'm looking for.

Edit:

Russ Bullock, on 11 September 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

What about XP, stats? there would be a limit but want to make sure I understand what exactly would be required.

Maybe a kind of cap at two or three million earned, 5000xp earned transfers to live. I like his idea. A lot.

Edited by NARCoMAN, 11 September 2014 - 03:43 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Russ Bullock, on 11 September 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Hope this helps.

One thing about PT...... well ...two, actually.

if 1) They lasted longer, so we felt you could get more real and varied data out of them, and maybe include some of the balance suggestions made by the community (like reducing heat on IS Mlasers, and SLasers), I believe you would get more of a showing.

and if 2) there was more signs of listening to our feedback after. For instance, I have not to my knowledge heard ANYONE say they felt the clan er smalls, aspl or mpl were issues. But while many of the nerfs were needed, honestly, we see a lot of the already suboptimal chassis like the Summoner and Nova hit hard, whereas, as predicted, the Twolf and Direwolf, two of the biggest issues, were barely touched, in reality.

Anyhow, this is not trying to bite the hand that feeds, and maybe it's stuff you guys did consider then discarded, but remember, sometimes, in fact most times Perception becomes Reality.

But indeed, thank you for the uptick in communication, it is very much appreciated.

NARCoMAN, on 11 September 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

Russ, you're the president and co-owner of the company. "I don't think we will ever see situations like this again." is not going to get my confidence back. "No, 3pv type 180's will never happen again." is what I'm looking for.

Edit:



Maybe a kind of cap at two or three million earned, 5000xp earned transfers to live. I like his idea. A lot.

realities in the business world, and when developing product, is depending on needs, and market, nothing can be given as a 100%. (And yeah, I was pretty rabid about 3pV too)

[StillRadioactive]

Russ,

Thank you very much for taking the time to actually reply here. Going out of your way to respond to things like this when you have a company to run means quite a lot to everyone involved.

I understand that you do, indeed, have a company to run, but I want you to be aware that I would like to have a dialog with you about the future of this game and this community, especially one that isn't directly in the public eye. I know that Apnu has offered the same in his open letter thread, and I hope you understand what sort of asset this kind of communication with highly motivated players can be, especially when those players are also professionals in customer-facing roles of disparate fields. Think of us as consultants, if you will.

We, and those like us, can be an invaluable asset to your company, and in so being we can help you win back the respect of your player base. If real changes in both the game and your PR efforts stem from this, the players will get a better experience and you will get a better business.

There are no losers when you bring passionate people into the fold.

[TercieI]

Russ Bullock, on 11 September 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

What about XP, stats? there would be a limit but want to make sure I understand what exactly would be required.

First, appreciate the response.

Speaking only for myself here because others might feel differently: C-bills are the main thing. XP is easy, C-bills are tight. (I get why and I don't have an issue with it). Stats really aren't all that important (and if they are, they're not terribly valid from a testing environment if we're taking the idea of testing seriously).

[Bishop Steiner]

Russ Bullock, on 11 September 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

What about XP, stats? there would be a limit but want to make sure I understand what exactly would be required.

well, for me, I think the cbills is really all I need. I would say the XP would be nice, but in truth I don't want the stats, yet I feel the two are kind of interrelated.

Thing is, if we are "testing" it should mean we are not running our optimal builds in optimal environs, so I personally don't want to deepsix my stats, even if I don't really feel they are a huge deal. But I do use them to track my own improvement.

But because like most F2P the economy is based on a grind, the cbills for the time would be nice.


Or, as an alternate, use the Challenge Weekend" we just had as an example. Give out Mechbays, MC, Premium Time or whatever for people who contribute in the Test Servers, with a variant of the point system used in the Challenge. And maybe added bonuses for people who actually take time to compile and file findings and reports too (something I have a feeling is done by a small percentage)

But for instance, complete 20 matches in test server, get a free mechbay, I think that sort of thing would get people more interested.

[IllCaesar]

@ Russ

I appreciate you popping up in the forums and showing that you're paying attention to us. People do honestly appreciate it even just when the developers are visibly lurking.

I was going to come in here to say that it might be good for the community after this "tumultuous" week to get earlier updates on what you said are going to be dropping on this Tuesday. As long as its not the next Clan Reinforcement Pack, people would get the wrong idea, even though you've already announced it. Consider that at your discretion.

Edited by MarsAtlas, 11 September 2014 - 03:55 PM.

[Khobai]

The main problem with the public test server is that its hard to justify downloading/patching the whole client if the public test server is only going to be up for a few hours.

If PGI could somehow find a way to leave the public test server up for the weekend that would definitely improve player turnout.

[IllCaesar]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 September 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

But for instance, complete 20 matches in test server, get a free mechbay, I think that sort of thing would get people more interested.

Like with the weekend challenges, a further heads up on the PTS would help. The last one, I didn't even know it was happening until it was already going on, and I was installing the client for over an hour while people were already shooting each other up in their rental Dire Whales and Lunch Meat Atlas'. If its on Friday, announce it on Monday or Tuesday, very explicitly. Give us a heads up so we can plan ahead, maybe put some time away to play it.

I was unable to get onto the PTS myself, but I imagine that was a problem on my end, not on PGI's end.

Edited by MarsAtlas, 11 September 2014 - 04:01 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 11 September 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

The main problem with the public test server is that its hard to justify downloading/patching the whole client if the public test server is only going to be up for a few hours.

If PGI could somehow find a way to leave the public test server up for the weekend that would definitely improve player turnout.

agreeing with you twice in 1 day. One of us must be drinking.

[Firebeyer]

I can understand the fuss about downloading/patching the client, but may i suggest you just download once and then anytime your main client has and update you update the PTS client to. That's what I do and that way when the PTS servers are up it's generally just a small quick patch.

[Khobai]

Quote

agreeing with you twice in 1 day. One of us must be drinking.

Im far more disagreeable when im drunk

[Greenjulius]

Oh yeah. If I still got my earned cbills for participating in the PT, I'd be happy to jump in. I feel my time is better spent at the moment in production for Cbills, but if that drawback isn't present, I'm game for PT.

I'm fine with no XP move over. The amount is meaningless and basically all my mechs are maxed out, so only GXP would even matter.

Either way, it's great to hear from you Russ. Just seeing confirmation that you guys are listening makes me feel much better about the state of the game and community.

Thank you!

Edited by Greenjulius, 11 September 2014 - 04:13 PM.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Russ Bullock, on 11 September 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

As to the smaller balance situations and items like that. It is true that Public test does not get a very good turn out, usually just 2-400 and I imagine all those that did not show up are not willing to leave the decision with those that did. It is a tough problem but we usually try to post about our changes. In the future we will try and post our desired changes ahead of time like we recently did with the CW post, which is something we have been fairly good at for the main features coming down the pipe.

Build the server selection process to switch over directly into the normal client launcher. Have it be a selectable option and keep a side server constantly running the latest builds (update the build every week would probably work) integrate all the stats and cbills earned as part of the profile system so everything transfers between the two. Not sure how much of an architecture switch that is for you guys, but I've seen it done on various MMOs as well as Steam for their early access games.

Not sure what build file management system you're using, but the build deployment can be automated and deployed to that specific set of test servers and up and running on a regular schedule. This would allow people interested to constantly stay ontop of the latest and greatest and provide more on the fly feedback

Build in a questionnaire for the client to submit tickets with their feedback, along the lines Relic does with Company of Heroes 2 after finishing a game to comment on the changes seen there or the relevant questions the designers are concerned about in the title. This'll help with getting the feedback directly from the folks involved in the testing process.

Reconsider some of the hated systems and devise some new ones to replace the ones people really dislike. It'd go along way for looking at suggested designs to replace some of those, namely ghost heat, and get a model more inline with some of peoples expectations.

Bishop Steiner, on 11 September 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

But for instance, complete 20 matches in test server, get a free mechbay, I think that sort of thing would get people more interested.

This is an excellent idea especially for those unwilling to spend money but more than willing to play the game. Positive reinforcement here helps in quite a few ways.

Edited by Mirkk Defwode, 11 September 2014 - 04:22 PM.

[Bongfu]

@Russ

You took a big risk hitting some of those points here. Especially after what happen. However, you still danced around the PR disaster. What is your response as a leader in your company? If I had an employee that generated so much hate from my customers, I will be well in my rights to review his contract. I would set down a plan that if he followed and improved, then he would stay with the company. However, if he continues this track record, I fear even a finally released version of CW will not save the playerbase Niko drives away daily.

[StillRadioactive]

This thread is a perfect example of the type of problem-solving that can come about when you directly engage the players. Granted, it wasn't supposed to be a thread about the public test, but the fact is that in 20 minutes of discussion this thread came up with a very realistic solution for low player turnout on the PTS.

Please keep this in mind, Russ.

[Bongfu]

StillRadioactive, on 11 September 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

This thread is a perfect example of the type of problem-solving that can come about when you directly engage the players. Granted, it wasn't supposed to be a thread about the public test, but the fact is that in 20 minutes of discussion this thread came up with a very realistic solution for low player turnout on the PTS.

Please keep this in mind, Russ.

Though low player turn it could also be because of a low population count that still plays.

[IllCaesar]

Mirkk Defwode, on 11 September 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

This is an excellent idea especially for those unwilling to spend money but more than willing to play the game. Positive reinforcement here helps in quite a few ways.

Gotta make the free players contribute somehow

When I couldn't get into the last PTS, I played normally, and made at 1.5 million C-Bills (I remember it was enough to get DHS), and if I join PTS I get... nothing. Well, I do get an opportunity to, say, mess with the Heros I've wanted to try (Arrow and Huginn to be specific), but thats not doing much to assist PGI, and really, that'll only run me for about an hour or two, and then, if I had no interest in the Clan Mechs, I'd drop out of the Public Test for, well, Clan Weapon Balance.

There's already C-Bill injections available in the MC store, and I don't really think that too many people would be upset as long as they end up with some amount close to what they received, so something like a 1.1 Mil injection for ten or so matches in the PTS would be a pretty easy way to get people in the PTS, and since its a set amount, it would really take off the pressure to perform and open up a larger variety of builds. After all, how often do use you a bill for grinding C-Bills over a build that is more fun? For me, thats often. Just do that C-Bill injection, as its a very simple solution that wouldn't take much effort, and even if its not the best long-term solution, people would be fine with that in the short term.

Edit: Just realized, there already were challenges that tracked your stats based on what mechs you were in. This could work the same way. Want to test Clan Mech Balance? 10 Matches in an IS mech - 1.1 Million C-Bills, 10 Matches in Clan Mechs - 1.1 million C-Bills, injected into our primary account. GXP could probably be injected via an achievemet as well.

Edited by MarsAtlas, 11 September 2014 - 04:34 PM.