77 replies to this topic

[Kmieciu]

Alexander Schmidt, on 11 September 2014 - 04:15 PM, said:

I have to apologize. What is meant is the IS AC/2 and the Clan UAC/2 as exceptions to the cooldown modules.

Chain firing 6xAC2 from a Jagermech was apparently a griefing tool, and had to be stopped. Hence ghost heat.

Chain firing 6xC-UAC5 (three times as much projectiles and explosions and cockpit shake) is not griefing, because you have to pay $120/$55 in order to do it.

I'll hold the irony here.

Ghost heat on (U)AC/2 does not make sense. AC2 generating over DOUBLE the HPS (Heat per second) than AC5, while having a lower DPS (Damage per Second) is not in line with the other autocannons.

Zack Esseth, on 11 September 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

The UAC5 does get ghost heat, each gun after the 3rd starts it.

Clan UAC5 has those parameters: heatpenalty="0.8" minheatpenaltylevel="4"
IS UAC5 does not. Neither do IS AC5 and AC10.

Don't tell Paul.

Edited by Kmieciu, 11 September 2014 - 11:29 PM.

[Elizander]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 11 September 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Hey Folks,

We have received a lot of feedback concerning that not all weapons get the treatment of the weapon modules. After sitting down and discussing the topic, we decided to change this situation. All weapons applicable for a range module will receive such. This also applies to the cooldown modules with one exception on each faction. The Inner Sphere AC/5 as well as the Clan UAC/5 cannot receive a cooldown module as a reduction of the cooldown effect would bring the weapon below chain fire speeds and therefore would incur heat scale.

We are aiming for an release of these modules on September 23^rd

Is it possible (just thinking about it) for the Ghost Heat time window be reduced to perhaps 0.40 seconds instead of the 0.50 seconds we have now? It seems that the value chosen for GS is conflicting with weapon fire rates. If you reduce GS down a little bit, it still does its job but you can then have the freedom to make the modules for the weapons and not skirt around GS penalties.

An AC/2 that fires at 0.50 seconds (old value) with a 12% CD reduction module and the 5% CD reduction elite efficiency would make the AC/2 fire at 0.415 seconds which is still above the proposed 0.40 second Ghost Heat limit.

I'm not quite sure how GS interacts with the CUAC/2 but you can just code it so that only the first shot counts for GS while doubletap shots do not.

[Appogee]

Yay, more CBill sinks which enable me and the cashed-up elite to further min/max our builds and destroy newcomers with even greater ease.

This is a great day for MWO. GGclose noobs.

/...

Edited by Appogee, 11 September 2014 - 11:41 PM.

[Kmieciu]

Appogee, on 11 September 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

Yay, more CBill sinks which enable me and the cashed-up elite to further min/max our builds and destroy newcomers with even greater ease.

This is a great day for MWO. GGclose noobs.

/...

Russ said it himself during the Town Hall, that right now the veterans are the core audience and new players get the shaft. "People that like Mechwarrior already know about MWO". No need for new players.

The first thing I'll buy for my 6xcUAC5 Dire Wolf will be a cooldown module. Because MOAR DAKKA!

Edited by Kmieciu, 11 September 2014 - 11:49 PM.

[Appogee]

Thanks I must not have heard that bit.

Kmieciu, on 11 September 2014 - 11:47 PM, said:

The first thing I'll buy for my 6xcUAC5 Dire Wolf will be a cooldown module. Because MOAR DAKKA!

I've been running one of those. I think it's less effective though than the more common Gauss/CERML version.

Edited by Appogee, 11 September 2014 - 11:58 PM.

[Deathlike]

Zack Esseth, on 11 September 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

I was going to say did you miss the time when we had Jagers running 6ac2 builds, but then I saw your number of posts. Though with the current meta I would be ok with those coming back since we just have 6UAC5 Dire whales instead. Fun days those of the 6AC2 Jager DD.

Those were never serious threats. Such builds demand near unholy uptime (think MGs, but requires fair more accuracy), and of course that HAD to use XL engines (easy to side-core). The only mistake a target would have is if they shutdown or "couldn't handle LRMs" (aka standing in the open instead of getting cover). That's even BEFORE Heat (and Ghost Heat) was factored into the equation.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 September 2014 - 12:46 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Appogee, on 11 September 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

Thanks I must not have heard that bit.
I've been running one of those. I think it's less effective though than the more common Gauss/CERML version.

I'm still seeing 2xGauss/2xERPPC builds in PUGs. People actually brawl with them. 2xGauss is effective at all ranges, espectially for legging light mechs while 2xERPPC will hit you at close range, and you can't spread this damage like you can with CERML.

And one thing I learned in MRBC is that in a brawl, you can torso twist to spread the damage and use your dead side as shield, but you cannot protect your legs. When you use a DPS weapon, like the UAC and the nemy does not torso twist - go for the CT. When he's smart enough to use the arms and side torsos for damage reduction, go for the legs.

Edited by Kmieciu, 12 September 2014 - 02:03 AM.

[Asmosis]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 11 September 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Hey Folks,

We have received a lot of feedback concerning that not all weapons get the treatment of the weapon modules. After sitting down and discussing the topic, we decided to change this situation. All weapons applicable for a range module will receive such. This also applies to the cooldown modules with one exception on each faction. The Inner Sphere AC/5 as well as the Clan UAC/5 cannot receive a cooldown module as a reduction of the cooldown effect would bring the weapon below chain fire speeds and therefore would incur heat scale.

We are aiming for an release of these modules on September 23^rd

Can I make a suggestion?

Double the GXP cost of weapon modules, but make them "generic" for clan/IS. there's enough modules as is without having "ac20, clan ac20" etc when they could be condensed down to a single skill

I'd go as far as suggesting overall weapon modules that affect a full class of weapons and bump the GXP right up to regular module price. just have lrms, srms, ssrms, small/med/large lasers, LBX/ultra/regular AC's etc. I might have missed a couple, but that's still 9 weapon modules when you have 2 slots. Much better than having 40-50 different weapon skills now that your giving individual weapon types multiple modules. its snowballing.

You still have to specialize, if you have an absolute fav weapon (say ac20) having range+cooldown modules available to all standard AC weapons isn't that focused since you'll still have your missile/lasers unenhanced.

Edited by Asmosis, 12 September 2014 - 03:57 AM.

[The Great Unwashed]

Or drop the module range/cooldown system entirely and make the upgrades chassis-specific (for lots of XP).... I'd like to see a few more Mastering slots other than an extra module slot for my favorite mechs. In fact, I'd like to have many modules as permanent upgrades... (hull climb, speed retention, etc). I'm in the end-game of MWO collecting and I can just buy all the modules I want and throw them at any mech I like... so not much of a challenge there. Spending another 500,000 XP on a mech is much more fun and rewarding.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 12 September 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Remove Ghost Heat, problems solved. Balance "boating" in one of the other viable ways that have been discussed.

Strewth.

[Willothius]

The Great Unwashed, on 12 September 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

Or drop the module range/cooldown system entirely and make the upgrades chassis-specific (for lots of XP)....

Drop the stupid modules as they are now; a tax.
Why NOT use the modules for range/cooldown? Only one reason; the cash, the grind.
I'm not buying these things until they create something better, something that makes sense..

Also, your completely ill-conceived 'Ghost Heat' system needs a complete overhaul too.
Firing 6 c-SLs, you're fine.. Fire the next 6 c-SLsok aftr 0,51 seconds, you're hot, but fine.. But firing the next 6 after 0,49 seconds, you receive MORE HEAT THAN FIRING 30 LASERZ at once?!?!

So the 0,2 seconds difference costs me, what, 60 extra ghost heat? Ridiculous. Make a proper mechanic PGI.

While you're on it;
-Weapon Convergence
-No more floating down on an imaginary elevator after using JJs..
-More and better maps (no more invisible walls)

Kraven Kor, on 12 September 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

Remove Ghost Heat, problems solved. Balance "boating" in one of the other viable ways that have been discussed.

Strewth.

Amen.

[xWiredx]

This is indeed good news. I was bothered by the lack of consistency and lack of explanation on the missing modules. Baby steps, but steps forward nonetheless.

[Icebergdx]

What about weapons that do not currently have these modules (Clan SSRM 4 and SSRM 6)

Edited by Icebergdx, 12 September 2014 - 08:16 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Carrie Harder, on 11 September 2014 - 09:28 PM, said:

As much as I enjoy the thought, you can't because then you run smack into the same problem.

The game would need a fundamental change in how heat works (which I am not against at all).

[Asmosis]

Willothius, on 12 September 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

Drop the stupid modules as they are now; a tax.
Why NOT use the modules for range/cooldown? Only one reason; the cash, the grind.
I'm not buying these things until they create something better, something that makes sense..

The reason not to use them is because you already have 2 weapon modules for a different weapon equipped.

[Carrie Harder]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 September 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

As much as I enjoy the thought, you can't because then you run smack into the same problem.

The game would need a fundamental change in how heat works (which I am not against at all).

My maths indicate that the new AC/2 cooldown would be roughly 0.5976 seconds with a level 5 module and fast fire skill. The chainfire/"heat scale" delay is 0.5 seconds.

[Y E O N N E]

That's great if you only want one AC/2.

Chainfire doesn't work for AC/2s. It artificially gimps the rate of fire by padding it with extra down-time to prevent ghost heat. If you put the guns on independent triggers, you nearly double the output but incur exponential heat gain. It's bogus and makes no sense since, before modules, the cool-down with Fast Fire is 0.684 seconds and firing two on separate triggers with even spacing is not fast enough to get three rounds in under half a second. Something screwy is going on with the game and, after bumping RoF to once every 0.3 seconds with two AC/2 and the Level 5 module, I don't really trust it to not give ghost heat even after the catch-point is raised to four when fired on separate triggers.

tl;dr: there shouldn't be any ghost heat whatsoever if I'm not firing the requisite number of GUNS simultaneously; number of rounds put down-range is not how it should be measured because staggered rounds, even if they all fit in the ghost time frame, can be spread around the 'Mech.

[Redinator]

I use LRM10+ART and LRM15+ART on a fully mastered IS-Mech. I fitted a LRM15 cooldown stage 5 module but can't notice any difference. If my calculation is right the LRM15 and LRM10 should have about the same cooldown rate now (LRM15 4.25sec - 12% = 3.74sec / LRM10 3.75sec).
Does the cooldown module not work for LRM+ART or does it not work at all?

Edited by Redinator79, 13 September 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[Carrie Harder]

Yeonne Greene, on 12 September 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:

That's great if you only want one AC/2.

-elaboration about heat-

Firing multiple AC/2 simultaneously (not staggered) also bypasses heat. It doesn't shake cockpits as much, or provide as much dakka dakka as staggered, but it does help increase pinpoint lethality and of course avoid extra heat from paranormal sources.

I'm not disagreeing that heat on AC/2s is dumb, in fact I think it's dumber than any other weapon on the list because it penalizes staggered fire even though the entire purpose of heat in the first place was to encourage staggered fire over alpha striking. However, I also want a gun that inflicts a more noticeable amount of damage, rather than being mostly a psychological weapon. Ideally, I'd want to see the weapon being used outside of the so-called "steering wheel underhive."

[Seraphic Law]

So why do some of us have to wait two additional weeks to upgrade our weapons with modules?
Why didn't you just release modules for ALL the weapons? It's your game, you knew they were there.