104 replies to this topic

[Hellcat420]

wtb the real battletech heatscale/penalties instead of the arcade crap we currently have!!!

[Lootee]

The biggest reason not to chain fire lots of lasers is how long you expose your face.

Unless the enemy is facing the other direction or completely preoccupied with an ally, staring directly at him while you fire 1 laser at a time is too risky. Definitely do not want to be doing this in front of a Nova, direwhale or another mech with strong FLD.

Torso twisting to soak damage is too important to not take advantage of.

Edited by Lootee, 11 September 2014 - 06:54 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Well, this is all assuming you can't aim!

Chainfire can intimidate. If you're brawling, you can put little bits of damage into vulnerable locations and force your opponent to protect themselves.

Also, If you have enough heatsinks to do it indefinitely (or near enough), and your enemy is already damaged and close to dooooom, you are more likely to kill them with chain fire, i've found. Kill shots tend to have a lot of overkill, as people sense the impending doom of a baddie and unleash hell. Sensible chain fire can net someone a kill while another teammate is saving enough heat to allow themselves to kill more spectacularly.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I run my Nova Prime in 4 groups of 3 C-ER MLs each and then manually chain fire the groups rotating though each of them in turn. It does wonders for managing heat on the Nova Prime. At 21 damage a group, you can easily make short work of enemies.

Also I can typically fire up to 9 at once without overheating which is still a significant 63 damage alpha. However I usually never fire more than 6 at a time unless it if for a finishing blow.

Also anyone aside from me wish there was a way to set up groups of weapons on automatic chain fire? I know I would love to set up 2 groups of 3 on a single button and be able to cycle through between the groups with just a single push of the button.

Oh and one last thing, the Nova is a midfield support mech. It is way to hot to maintain the firepower necessary to brawl, not to mention having fairly poor hit boxes (scale is way off, I have a screen shot showing it is as tall as a 70 ton Cataphract and even wider). It does fantastic in a situation where it can apply max damage then fade into cover to cool down though, kind of like a pocket Dire Wolf to be honest.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Viktor Drake, on 11 September 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Also anyone aside from me wish there was a way to set up groups of weapons on automatic chain fire? I know I would love to set up 2 groups of 3 on a single button and be able to cycle through between the groups with just a single push of the button.

You are not alone here. I have the mouse buttons to do this manually but shouldn't a mech be sophisticated enough to do this with weapon groupings?

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 11 September 2014 - 08:32 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Chain v Group is all about real-time heat load. Say you're in an Awesome with 5 MPLs. You obviously group fire those whenever you can. However, if your heat is over, say, 80%, it's super risky to fire a full group. Chain fire lets you put damage on target even when your heat is pushed way up, which in some cases can be the difference between getting a kill and dying. There are innumerable situations where you might need that one last laser shot to finish the target off, and doing a full group volley would both be overkill and would push you into shutdown.

[SaltBeef]

I agree with scale of the NOVA!!, it is about the same size as Dragonfly a little bigger than a Adder and a relatively small mech, I do understand adding the gyro and waist for torso twisting and it makes it look really friggin nice!! but it needs to be resized down a few notches.
Best to pick defilade firing positions as firing the lasers up will prevents laser dirt drilling.

Edited by SaltBeef, 11 September 2014 - 11:06 PM.

[FDJustin]

I link fire probably 70% of the time. The rest of the time is spent in chainfire, dancing with the shutdown line...

I agree with premise of the message. Much better to just shoot all your stuff in one spot at once. Just, there is a time and a place.

Funny enough, I got my first headshot tonight from chainfiring. Fighting against a Jenner on Mordor... Jenner shut down. I chainfired and held my aim on the glass.

[NUK3]

Having some lasers in chainfire doesn't mean one can't fire them nearly simultaneously. Just fire the group in quick succession. That way you can choose how many lasers you want to fire simultaneously. In any situtation. Yes, it can spread the damage quite a bit, but imho it's worth it if it prevents my mech from shutting down. Of course: a second laser group without chainfire works, too.

[Reitrix]

I run a Daishi with 8 Clan ER Large Lasers.
On Chainfire.

The range nerf sucked, poking people at 950 for full damage was epic. 790 is ok .. But not as great :<

I can chainfire them on Alpine almost 20 times before i need to stop and cool off. I've helped win games on Alpine and Tourmaline by sitting mid pack as we advance and pasting them with with big blue beams. People back off in a hurry when they see that I'm not overheating OR backing down.
The only thing that makes me back down is a dual guass/PPC Dire Wolf.

The build on chainfire makes for an excellent Assault deterrent.
Its pretty funny watching people take the first few beams and decide 'hah, hes overheating, push!' and then be like ... 'oh crap, whys he still shooting!'

[ApolloKaras]

Not a bad idea if you see a pilot that's in panic mode. The anxiety trigger of constant damage can result in pilots making mistakes.

Edit : all these new fangled multi button mice. Real men play with a Mac mouse :-D

Edited by Saxie, 12 September 2014 - 03:33 AM.

[Mercules]

GRiPSViGiL, on 11 September 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

Pending you're playing the worst player ever who doesn't roll those alphas capping your own heat to remove have your weaponry.

So we have probably two scenarios here. In either case the mech is close to death or losing the majority of it's weaponry and you are near the heat threshold of shutting down.

1. The mech you are facing has PPFLD, in which case you will want to chain fire to try and catch that vulnerable piece that finishes it off or removes it's firepower before it gets it's PPFLD refreshed or heat lowered enough to risk firing.

2. The mech you are facing doesn't have PPFLD, in which case it is doing DPS and will be constantly pouring damage into you while YOU wait for your heat to lower enough to risk firing it all together so you want to cut that off as soon as you can.


Either way when an opposing mech is close to death and you are close on heat it is BETTER to try and use 2-3 of your six to finish them instead of waiting for enough heat to fire all 6 or risking shutting down.

Edited by Mercules, 12 September 2014 - 04:17 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Lefty Lucy, on 11 September 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

I'm really tired of seeing mechs with 6 medium lasers having them all in a single chainfired group. When you fire your lasers like this, all you're doing is spreading damage ineffectually, instead of targeting the specific opponents that get you a kill or disable on an enemy mech.

You want a money shot, not laser bukakke.

Edited by Sjorpha, 12 September 2014 - 05:04 AM.

[Roland]

When I saw this post from Lucy I knew we were gonna see a bunch of bads arguing against it.

The only times you don't want to fire all your lasers is:
1) You have so many than it will trigger ghost heat to fire them all
2) Firing them all will push you over your heat limit

That's pretty much it. In virtually all other cases, you want to fire them as a single group, to minimize damage spread.

People can argue against this all they want, but they are clearly wrong. Spreading out the time it takes to deal damage is NEVER BENEFICIAL. You always want to deal your damage as fast as possible, and then get into cover or at least start twisting your mech to spread damage.

If you've got 6 medium lasers, there's nothing wrong with having a separate group with the weapons on chainfire, but unless you're at the top of your heat scale you should be firing them all as one.

Feel free to try and argue about how this isn't true. It doesn't matter. You're wrong. If you refuse to accept this simple truth about mechwarrior, then this message isn't for you.. it's for people who want to play the game better.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roland, on 12 September 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

When I saw this post from Lucy I knew we were gonna see a bunch of bads arguing against it.

The only times you don't want to fire all your lasers is:
1) You have so many than it will trigger ghost heat to fire them all
2) Firing them all will push you over your heat limit

That's pretty much it. In virtually all other cases, you want to fire them as a single group, to minimize damage spread.

People can argue against this all they want, but they are clearly wrong. Spreading out the time it takes to deal damage is NEVER BENEFICIAL. You always want to deal your damage as fast as possible, and then get into cover or at least start twisting your mech to spread damage.

If you've got 6 medium lasers, there's nothing wrong with having a separate group with the weapons on chainfire, but unless you're at the top of your heat scale you should be firing them all as one.

Feel free to try and argue about how this isn't true. It doesn't matter. You're wrong. If you refuse to accept this simple truth about mechwarrior, then this message isn't for you.. it's for people who want to play the game better.

ah Roland, you tact is delightful as ever.

I forgot that you are indeed the authority on al things MW/Battletech.

So by all means, next time you have an opponent with a cherry red internal CT, alpha strike him and shut down, so his teammate can kill you while defenseless. Or wait that extra 5-10 seconds for your heat to drop enough NOT to overheat and hope your opponent doesn't kill YOU in the meantime.

Or, you can have a second fire group with lasers on chain, which a GOOD player can then tapout near instantly 1-2-3 beams as needed to finish the job, NOW, without overheating.

Anyone who clings to either chainfire or alphas as the answer to everything, is the BAD.

Your black and white world is so cute.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 September 2014 - 05:23 AM.

[Felix7007]

LOL

If you know me, you know why I find this post funny.

See you on the battlefield.

[Kmieciu]

This game is very easy people. You either apply your full damage to the enemy, or you twist away and shield you torso or hide behind cover.

Don't stare at the enemy when you are close to overheating. He isn't going anywhere. He is not going to disappear.

If you`re using 6xML, KNOW at what % you can safely fire them on current map. Wait until your heat drops below that threshold then deal the damage within 1 second. Torso twist. Rinse and repeat.

People that chainfire are usual cored with their arm and side torso armor intact.

You want to be like those damn Thunderbolt pilots. Missing two arms and a leg, with no armor left and cherry red internals and still applying 25 damage per alpha strike.

PS. I've seen people with cherry red internals shrugging numerous laser blasts. Lagshield is still strong, especially for mechs moving >80 kph while torso twisting. I don't take any chances.

Deathstar mode or go home.

Spoiler

Edited by Kmieciu, 12 September 2014 - 05:35 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Lefty Lucy, on 11 September 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

I'm really tired of seeing mechs with 6 medium lasers having them all in a single chainfired group. When you fire your lasers like this, all you're doing is spreading damage ineffectually, instead of targeting the specific opponents that get you a kill or disable on an enemy mech.

You want a money shot, not laser bukakke.

Translation: Do not play how you want to, or to your style, My way is the only way.

How about you stop telling people how to play, or you know, go play in 12 mans where everyones 1337 pro 360 no scopez.

Seriously, you don't like it, cool, don't do it... no one's forcing you to chainfire exclusively. And for some people, it saves heat on a heat intensive build, especially with the recent clan heat changes.

So seriously man... why are you even complaining about this? In what way does it impact your play experience other than "I don't like what x person is doing so I'm going to whine."

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

i am sure someone more KONowledgeable could better explain the pros and cons of alpha vs damage over time more specific to heat, mech, and maps...

what if the 6 lasers are on the torso and arms and both reticles arent on the target yet? wait to alpha?

better weapon grouping in the game could help

i would rather see a discussion about grouping of weapons like right arm and left arm to shoot from cover but not waste heat shootin a wall with 1 arm or other constuctive ideas

Edited by Gorantir, 12 September 2014 - 06:21 AM.

[HRR Mary]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 September 2014 - 05:23 AM, said:

ah Roland, you tact is delightful as ever.

I forgot that you are indeed the authority on al things MW/Battletech.

[snip]

Your black and white world is so cute.

Quite frankly, given your example of utilisation, Roland is clearly understanding this game more than you