104 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

HRR Mary, on 12 September 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

Quite frankly, given your example of utilisation, Roland is clearly understanding this game more than you

believe what you will. Just makes it easier for me ingame.

[Jacob Side]

So that Timmy that needs 1-2 more laser hits to put down? I should just alpha him instead of hitting him with chain fire then turning my remaining lasers to another target?
Hmmm.... learned something new today.

ALPHA all the time, ALPHA all the time....

Edited by Jacob Side, 12 September 2014 - 06:23 AM.

[DaZur]

Lefty Lucy, on 11 September 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

I'm really tired of seeing mechs with 6 medium lasers having them all in a single chainfired group. When you fire your lasers like this, all you're doing is spreading damage ineffectually, instead of targeting the specific opponents that get you a kill or disable on an enemy mech.

You want a money shot, not laser bukakke.

Nope... I chain fire to mange heat and allow myself the opportunity to return fire over time keeping my opponent "on the ropes".

I'm not real keen on blowing my wad in one shot and getting ripped apart while I wait for cool-down and or recharge...

[Mercules]

Roland, on 12 September 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

People can argue against this all they want, but they are clearly wrong. Spreading out the time it takes to deal damage is NEVER BENEFICIAL. You always want to deal your damage as fast as possible, and then get into cover or at least start twisting your mech to spread damage.

Anyone who states that something is "Never" or "Always" especially so emphatically is empirically wrong. You simply can't say that with a straight face and not be wrong at some point in time. Yes the majority of the time it would be better to find a way to fire all those lasers at once for the PP damage, but the game doesn't always allow us the luxury of that ALWAYS being the case.

See ideally you would be able to hit with everything and then move back into cover to cool or recharge but the enemy has this weird plan to not let you do what you want to do ideally. They tend to want to screw that up. So you occasionally need to "break the rules" and do something that would, in ideal situations, be stupid.

Gorantir, on 12 September 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

what if the 6 lasers are on the torso and arms and both reticles arent on the target yet? wait to alpha?

I get the feeling some people would say, "What? Why wouldn't you already have armlock on to better to PP damage?"

[Bishop Steiner]

Jacob Side, on 12 September 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

So that Timmy that needs 1-2 more laser hits to put down? I should just alpha him instead of hitting him with chain fire then turning my remaining lasers to another target?
Hmmm.... learned something new today.

ALPHA all the time, ALPHA all the time....

Yup. Actually setting up your mouse to give you the precise amount of firepower and control you need for any situation, is apparently the sign of a BAD.


When 1 laser can kill your opponent, you should fire 6. Whether the heat cripples you, or that is 5 lasers you coul dhav ethen turned and fired on his buddy.



Pure freaking genius, that.

[SI The Joker]

This:

Flash Frame, on 12 September 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Translation: Do not play how you want to, or to your style, My way is the only way.

How about you stop telling people how to play, or you know, go play in 12 mans where everyones 1337 pro 360 no scopez.

Seriously, you don't like it, cool, don't do it... no one's forcing you to chainfire exclusively. And for some people, it saves heat on a heat intensive build, especially with the recent clan heat changes.

So seriously man... why are you even complaining about this? In what way does it impact your play experience other than "I don't like what x person is doing so I'm going to whine."

And this:

Mercules, on 12 September 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

Anyone who states that something is "Never" or "Always" especially so emphatically is empirically wrong. You simply can't say that with a straight face and not be wrong at some point in time. Yes the majority of the time it would be better to find a way to fire all those lasers at once for the PP damage, but the game doesn't always allow us the luxury of that ALWAYS being the case.

See ideally you would be able to hit with everything and then move back into cover to cool or recharge but the enemy has this weird plan to not let you do what you want to do ideally. They tend to want to screw that up. So you occasionally need to "break the rules" and do something that would, in ideal situations, be stupid.
I get the feeling some people would say, "What? Why wouldn't you already have armlock on to better to PP damage?"

These two posts sum up the entire thread.

1. Who cares? Your way isn't the way for everyone in every situation.
2. Always and Never are empirically wrong.

/Thread

[C E Dwyer]

you should know by now Lefty this kind of statement goes in the daily whine thread

besides chain firing means you can write your name in the snow ..

Edited by Cathy, 12 September 2014 - 06:50 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Hah, I expected this thread to get a response or two and die.

I'm not telling people they play the way I like, just saying that if you think chainfiring lasers is useful in 98% of situations you are not applying firepower efficiently.

I do have a chainfire group set up on my laser boats, but it rarely gets used, because the situations in which chainfiring, rather than retreating to cool down, are useful have to meet all three of the following conditions simultaneously:

1. Your opponent has to be very, very close to dying.
2. You have to be very very close to overheating
3. All of your team mates need to be dead or disabled.

Because otherwise it's much better for the team effort to simply let someone else get the kill shot, and cool down sufficiently to engage the next enemy with a full salvo of coherent beam death.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Lefty Lucy, on 12 September 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

Hah, I expected this thread to get a response or two and die.

I'm not telling people they play the way I like, just saying that if you think chainfiring lasers is useful in 98% of situations you are not applying firepower efficiently.

I do have a chainfire group set up on my laser boats, but it rarely gets used, because the situations in which chainfiring, rather than retreating to cool down, are useful have to meet all three of the following conditions simultaneously:

1. Your opponent has to be very, very close to dying.
2. You have to be very very close to overheating
3. All of your team mates need to be dead or disabled.

Because otherwise it's much better for the team effort to simply let someone else get the kill shot, and cool down sufficiently to engage the next enemy with a full salvo of coherent beam death.

And we are saying... that it doesn't matter what you think on the situation.

You, personally, feel that doing so waste firepower, and to a degree you are correct.

But it's not your call to make is it? If I decide to chainfire the 6mlas on my Battlemaster, that's my decision. You, personally, do not know why I have made such a decision, thus you do not have the information at hand to make a true and honest judgement call on why I am using chainfire.

For all you know, my battlemaster could be utilizing SHS instead of Dubs. which would be a DAMN good reason to use chain fire.

But you, of allmighty opinion, has decided in your infinate wisdom, that I should be firing those 6 medium lasers in tandem, thus hitting my heat cap faster.

Now you can make any argument you want against it. But think of this Lefty: Chainfire is in the game, it is ment to be used, if it were not ment to be used, we would not have a chainfire option and would only be able to group weapons. Thus another's play style may revolve around utilizing chainfire for multiple's of lasers. While it is not your chosen desired use of them, you are not the one in question.

Thus, your opinion on the matter is invalidated. I'm so sorry, please try again.

Edited by Flash Frame, 12 September 2014 - 07:31 AM.

[Jman5]

Some advantages in favor of chain firing.

1. Boosting your assist bonus. This is particularly helpful for long range weapons like the ER Large Laser. You put 2 or 3 on chain fire at the beginning of the match and just scrape every mech you see to ensure you get an assist bonus. For example on HPG Manifold when you exit the door and look to the opposite entrance you see a bunch of baddies pouring out. There isn't enough time to wait for the cooldown so you just fire 1 laser at each target.

2. Sniping very weak components. Sometimes you see a bright red leg or arm, but you don't want to put too many of your weapons on cooldown. So being able to fire off one laser and then immediately switching the rest of your guns to another component could be helpful for you.

3. A long engagement where you're not being targeted and you have a hot build. This is pretty situational, but sometimes you are in a fight where you have 3 or 4 buddies taking hits for you, and you realize it's going to be a drawn out slugfest. Normally, you might last 10 seconds before getting too hot. However if you chain fire you can maintain the same damage over time, but increase the time you can last in the fight. Again, this is only if you recognize it's going to be a drawn out fight, and you don't need to torso twist much.

Edited by Jman5, 12 September 2014 - 07:49 AM.

[Gallowglas]

Lefty Lucy, on 11 September 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

I'm really tired of seeing mechs with 6 medium lasers having them all in a single chainfired group. When you fire your lasers like this, all you're doing is spreading damage ineffectually, instead of targeting the specific opponents that get you a kill or disable on an enemy mech.

You want a money shot, not laser bukakke.

This might be true of MLs, but there's some argument for using chain fire with ERLLs depending on situation. First, there's something psychologically and disproportionately intimidating about having a constant stream of lasers hitting you. Secondarily, you're never waiting on a CD to be able to hit multiple targets as they pop out. And, of course, it can be more heat effective to chain fire to be able to secure a kill when you only need a *little* damage to finish off a mech.

Like most things though, it's situational.

Edited by Gallowglas, 12 September 2014 - 08:22 AM.

[Fut]

Piney, on 11 September 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

When I'm dancing with the heat devil, I'll chain fire my lasers and selectively tap them. It might spread the damage a bit, but the alternatives are a shut down and certain death or retiring from the battle to cool off.

At least I'll still be laying in some damage.

This.
I'll blast away with my Lasers as a single uber-laser until my heat warning comes up, then - depending on the situation - I'll begin to chainfire them to allow a bit of cooling while keeping the pressure on the enemy.

The idea of Alpha-Warrior or nothing is a flawed one.

[NoClass]

Hellcat420, on 11 September 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

alpha striking is for noobs who need to rely on the instant pinpoint convergence crutch.

I've never heard of someone call someone else a noob for using the game mechanics to their fullest potential. Specifically when individual skill is required in doing so. This isnt LrMs or an m203 in battle field where all you do is sit back from protected positions and lob damage where aiming is barely a requirement. Do me a favor and punch yourself in the throat next time you have a thought.

Edited by VigilanceHawkwind, 12 September 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Flash Frame, on 12 September 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

For all you know, my battlemaster could be utilizing SHS instead of Dubs. which would be a DAMN good reason to use chain fire.

https://www.youtube....dOwHzCHfgA#t=18

Lucy was talking about medium lasers. There is never a good reason to chain fire them.

Edited by Kmieciu, 12 September 2014 - 09:03 AM.

[RussianWolf]

[switches all my lasers to chain fire, even on my low heat builds]

Anything I can do to annoy.

One of my joys is running my 5-6 SL Locust and chasing another light, pinging his rear constantly with chain fire as he tries to evade. And then tapping as fast as I can, unleashing a near alpha to bring them down once their armor is gone.

Edited by RussianWolf, 12 September 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[Piney II]

"Lucy was talking about medium lasers. There is never a good reason to chain fire them."

Uh.......OK............

I guess shutting down is a better option than switching to chain fire?

Wild west - going out with your boots on?

[AssaultPig]

up to 6 MLas, your heat per damage is the same whether you alpha MLas or chain fire them. You are not creating any additional cooling by chain firing. If you are near your heat cap you are much better off to simply cool a bit longer, then link fire again than you are to chain fire.

It is useful to have specific fire groups for arms/torso, or for your right/left side, and you can use those to manage heat in situations where you are near shutdown or just need that little bit of additional damage to destroy a red component. Chain firing is basically never a good choice.

[Kain Demos]

I've gone back and forth on this with regards to my favorite Dire Wolf bulid that fields 4 x CERLL in the left arm (and a gauss in each torso). At first I made two groups of two but lately I've really been preferring grouping them in 1 and u sing chain fire. I ALWAYS have uptime on my lasers plus I can use a much better button for my gauss group giving me better accuracy.

[Hellcat420]

VigilanceHawkwind, on 12 September 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

I've never heard of someone call someone else a noob for using the game mechanics to their fullest potential. Specifically when individual skill is required in doing so. This isnt LrMs or an m203 in battle field where all you do is sit back from protected positions and lob damage where aiming is barely a requirement. Do me a favor and punch yourself in the throat next time you have a thought.

haha alpha striking is the easy way to do things that takes the least amount of skill and minimal aiming ability. that is why its so popular, and why noobs do it.

Edited by Hellcat420, 12 September 2014 - 11:26 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Jman5, on 12 September 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Some advantages in favor of chain firing.

1. Boosting your assist bonus. This is particularly helpful for long range weapons like the ER Large Laser. You put 2 or 3 on chain fire at the beginning of the match and just scrape every mech you see to ensure you get an assist bonus. For example on HPG Manifold when you exit the door and look to the opposite entrance you see a bunch of baddies pouring out. There isn't enough time to wait for the cooldown so you just fire 1 laser at each target.

2. Sniping very weak components. Sometimes you see a bright red leg or arm, but you don't want to put too many of your weapons on cooldown. So being able to fire off one laser and then immediately switching the rest of your guns to another component could be helpful for you.

3. A long engagement where you're not being targeted and you have a hot build. This is pretty situational, but sometimes you are in a fight where you have 3 or 4 buddies taking hits for you, and you realize it's going to be a drawn out slugfest. Normally, you might last 10 seconds before getting too hot. However if you chain fire you can maintain the same damage over time, but increase the time you can last in the fight. Again, this is only if you recognize it's going to be a drawn out fight, and you don't need to torso twist much.

careful now, Roland just said only BADs chainfire, we don't want your Elo to suddenly dump out and drop you in the Underhive with the rest of us BADs.......