1306 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tichorius Davion, on 17 September 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

Honestly; was anyone expecting this to be anything other than herding cats?

[IraqiWalker]

KingCobra, on 17 September 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

IraqiWalker (I'm personally tired of this "silent majority" argument because it is absolutely stupid)

This statement in itself should tell everyone this player is out of touch with the in-game player base as are most forum warriors and far right or left group players that are being nominated for this counsel..

Show me the logic in the argument and I will retract my statement right here, and now.

Although, I'm glad that you agree your logic on everything else is completely wrong. Sine you only focused on this one point.

it's very simple, here I'll show you:

If you want to say something, you say it (that means you participate in the forums, but somehow according to you, their opinion is no longer valid because they spoke up, and can't be used as a shield by you)

If you don't want to say something, you don't Meaning you don't participate. Meaning you don't really care enough to participate.

How do you expect people who don't participate, to have a voice, when they actively refuse to participate?


How do you expect people that are uninformed about the game, to make sound decisions about it? For crying out loud, half (at least) the players that don't go to the forums don't know how ghost heat works. How do you expect them to weigh in on that issue?


You're using this faceless "silent majority" as a shield to hide behind, that's all there is to it. At least that's what I'm getting from your arguments.

When you don't vote, do you still get upset that they had the election without you? If you do, something is wrong with you. If you wanted to influence that election, you should have voted, now you have a district attorney you don't like, or whatever.

Unless these silent masses speak up, they can't be heard.

bobF, on 17 September 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

Now I know for sure this game is on life support. The rational voices dissenting from this very bad idea should be listened to. Whenever a developer starts looking to the forum warriors and "competitive players" for guidance, things go south quick. Basically, this council thing becomes a platform for exclusion, and myopic ideas. Fact: the average active forum base for any game ranges from 3-10% of the total playerbase. So already, this council, no matter the number of prolific posts or ostensible armchair game development expertise, only represents a tiny minority. So why is the silent majority silent? Because there's really nothing wrong with the core game. This is why this council will fail, the concentration of effort will be on arcane game mechanics casuals really don't care about. The game badly needs non-mech content, and you people want to decide on a single game mechanic by way of galactic council. I mean, hurray for democracy, but minus 50 dkp for efficiency. The best ideas to improve this game have been presented already, we don't need a Neckbeard Council arguing over who's ecm idea or heat idea is the best. This game needs maps. Combined arms warfare with tanks and air support. CW in place to give the PvP reason and stakes to fight over. Some fluff rp elements to immerse the players and tt vets alike. This council thing amounts to so much PR, since pgi has been shamed from reddit. All effort needs to go into content creation. People arguing ecm from a lofty, high post count position, is a tragic waste of everyone's time.

Glad you chose to skip reading about what the council's purpose is, and how it has no power on anything. Good job.

Livewyr, on 17 September 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

When are people going to start registering: "Players vote on proposals before they go to PGI. If they do not pass vote, they do not go."

Players means: YOU. And you. and you and you and you.
You get a vote
YOU get a vote
and YOU get a vote
Votes for everyone!

When they learn basic reading comprehension. I'm genuinely asking this: Did they stop teaching reading to kinds in schools in the last 10 years or so?

KingCobra, on 17 September 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

I could not agree with you more I have the same opinion of this situation and from talking to a lot of in-game players they think ECM is just fin no changes needed? So why fix a ECM component that is not broken to a point of non playable and concentrate of new content?

Yes, and the last three years of feedback telling us that something is wrong with it are absolutely invalid, because one or two guys that didn't know the mechanics of it are saying it's okay??? Shouldn't both sides be considered?

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 September 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Honestly; was anyone expecting this to be anything other than herding cats?

I was. For all of 10 seconds I was filled with hope. Then that got crashed by a couple of people who clearly didn't read any posts or any material relevant to the discussion, spewing strawmans that don't exist. Even more so than regular straw mans.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 September 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

We dont really need this do we?

Probably not. Same could be said for 90% of posts in this forum, I suppose. Which is kinda where I was heading, though in a probably non helpful, snarky, manner.

[IraqiWalker]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 September 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Probably not. Same could be said for 90% of posts in this forum, I suppose. Which is kinda where I was heading, though in a probably non helpful, snarky, manner.

That 90% is why this whole council thing is happening in the first place.

[SpiralFace]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 September 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Wow.


This...is getting ... a little ridiculous?

Last I checked, we were gathering nominees to act as a 1 time task force, to address a specific issue, Russ extended to us as an olive branch.

By compiling and making reasoned proposals based off of Community Data. Not running for permanent seats on Congress. Not to make bold new proposals?

I mean seems to me we need people who are more, largely unbiased bean counters, with good communication skills than a popularity contest on who is the most Comp. makes best Videos, etc.

Obviously we need to take it seriously, but geez, the strutting and bickering is getting to High School elections proportions.

The thing that is disappointing to me at least, is that I see more threads and passion put into the back and forth bickering of who should be the ones making the decisions rather then putting that same passion and effort into putting forward legitimate proposals and discussions on those said proposals and IDEAS.

I mean seriously, we have 58 pages now of back and forth complaining about who's going to pass along the decisions, a bunch of counter threads complaining about everything from white knights to the counsel itself, all while many legitimate proposals that HAVE been put forth have only 2-3 pages of comments actually looking over them.

Seriously, It seems like people are more concerned about WHO proposes them as opposed to WHAT the physical proposals are.

[Peter2k]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 September 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

This is exactly what I was saying would drown the message



Heimdelight 9

First post

Ah, sorry mate
Long day

But still Heimdelight 9
Homeless Bill 63

Well, you know, luckily still obvious who would win there

Also one foul apple might not spoil the whole bunch if they're so quite opposite.

And wow with the fighting.

I nominate that the council be renamed into beancounters united or something the like.
Or game idea collecters.

Maybe then people will get the message
Ya right /s

[Bishop Steiner]

IraqiWalker, on 17 September 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

That 90% is why this whole council thing is happening in the first place.

exactly, which it's funny all the opposers and epeeners here don't see that they are making the best argument FOR the council by their own actions against.

That said, we need some realistic focus on what it entails and why, or we will never even achieve launch.

SpiralFace, on 17 September 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

The thing that is disappointing to me at least, is that I see more threads and passion put into the back and forth bickering of who should be the ones making the decisions rather then putting that same passion and effort into putting forward legitimate proposals and discussions on those said proposals and IDEAS.

I mean seriously, we have 58 pages now of back and forth complaining about who's going to pass along the decisions, a bunch of counter threads complaining about everything from white knights to the counsel itself, all while many legitimate proposals that HAVE been put forth have only 2-3 pages of comments actually looking over them.

Seriously, It seems like people are more concerned about WHO proposes them as opposed to WHAT the physical proposals are.

1000% this

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

IraqiWalker, on 17 September 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

When they learn basic reading comprehension. I'm genuinely asking this: Did they stop teaching reading to kinds in schools in the last 10 years or so?

Are you really expecting the rest of the playerbase to read better? Also we dont need the infighting here. Remember about being awesome to each other?

About the reading comprehension... A friend once told me "To find the intelligence of a group of people (the intelligence of the group itself not the average intelligence of its members) you take the highest IQ in the group and divide it by the bumber of people."

If we're having issues with that NOW with this small a group of people, what are you expecting when its opened up to the whole of the playerbase?

Bishop Steiner, on 17 September 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Probably not. Same could be said for 90% of posts in this forum, I suppose. Which is kinda where I was heading, though in a probably non helpful, snarky, manner.

again to the two wrongs thing. Lets try to NOT be the second wrong in this thread if that makes any sense

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 September 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Are you really expecting the rest of the playerbase to read better? Also we dont need the infighting here. Remember about being awesome to each other?

About the reading comprehension... A friend once told me "To find the intelligence of a group of people (the intelligence of the group itself not the average intelligence of its members) you take the highest IQ in the group and divide it by the bumber of people."

If we're having issues with that NOW with this small a group of people, what are you expecting when its opened up to the whole of the playerbase?



again to the two wrongs thing. Lets try to NOT be the second wrong in this thread if that makes any sense

Probably up to my 50th wrong on this thread alone. =/

[Kin3ticX]

Accept Nomination: Yes
Affiliation: QQ Merc Corp
Battle Activity: Active
Relevant Information: Forum Contributor, New Player Help

[DEN_Ninja]

Kin3ticX, on 17 September 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Accept Nomination: Yes
Affiliation: QQ Merc Corp
Battle Activity: Active
Relevant Information: Forum Contributor, New Player Help

Editted. thanks for formally stating this. Makes it easier.

[Joseph Mallan]

IraqiWalker, on 17 September 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Show me the logic in the argument and I will retract my statement right here, and now.

Although, I'm glad that you agree your logic on everything else is completely wrong. Sine you only focused on this one point.

it's very simple, here I'll show you:

If you want to say something, you say it (that means you participate in the forums, but somehow according to you, their opinion is no longer valid because they spoke up, and can't be used as a shield by you)

If you don't want to say something, you don't Meaning you don't participate. Meaning you don't really care enough to participate.

How do you expect people who don't participate, to have a voice, when they actively refuse to participate?


How do you expect people that are uninformed about the game, to make sound decisions about it? For crying out loud, half (at least) the players that don't go to the forums don't know how ghost heat works. How do you expect them to weigh in on that issue?


You're using this faceless "silent majority" as a shield to hide behind, that's all there is to it. At least that's what I'm getting from your arguments.

When you don't vote, do you still get upset that they had the election without you? If you do, something is wrong with you. If you wanted to influence that election, you should have voted, now you have a district attorney you don't like, or whatever.

Unless these silent masses speak up, they can't be heard.


Glad you chose to skip reading about what the council's purpose is, and how it has no power on anything. Good job.




When they learn basic reading comprehension. I'm genuinely asking this: Did they stop teaching reading to kinds in schools in the last 10 years or so?

They seemed to have stopped teaching proofreading!

I couldn't help it!


And to prove I am not immune Here is the post I was trying to quote!

Quote

When they learn basic reading comprehension. I'm genuinely asking this: Did they stop teaching reading to kinds in schools in the last 10 years or so?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 September 2014 - 11:22 AM.

[bobF]

Yeah, I am a quick study, this ain't my first time to the rodeo. Gaming is a serious hobby of mine, and perhaps I've read too many forum posts. I'd gladly accept your nomination, and my position would be simple: add content to the game, and immeadiatly dissolve the player council.

Like some posts above suggest, exclusion will become priority number one. Already the figure being floated around is 90%. Gk candidates, you unanimously agree on something already. I know, you'll be "powerless," you'll just have the dev's ear as a marketing focus group, and pgi will (incorrectly) believe your word as what the community wants.

Well boyos, I could give a toss about ecm. It doesn't break the game. You know what does? Shallow deathmatch arena over and over again. If I wanted an advanced fps simulator, there are much better options. The IP drives this game, and the possibility of tactical warfare over planets via CW makes me salivate.

Have player feedback over something useful. Like map design, or sandboxy features for cw. A player council for a single non issue mechanic? Fail.

[IraqiWalker]

SpiralFace, on 17 September 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

The thing that is disappointing to me at least, is that I see more threads and passion put into the back and forth bickering of who should be the ones making the decisions rather then putting that same passion and effort into putting forward legitimate proposals and discussions on those said proposals and IDEAS.

I mean seriously, we have 58 pages now of back and forth complaining about who's going to pass along the decisions, a bunch of counter threads complaining about everything from white knights to the counsel itself, all while many legitimate proposals that HAVE been put forth have only 2-3 pages of comments actually looking over them.

Seriously, It seems like people are more concerned about WHO proposes them as opposed to WHAT the physical proposals are.

So true.

It's kinda depressing innit?

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 September 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Are you really expecting the rest of the playerbase to read better? Also we dont need the infighting here. Remember about being awesome to each other?

You're absolutely right. I apologize for my behavior.

[KingCobra]

SpiralFace said (I mean seriously, we have 58 pages now of back and forth complaining about who's going to pass along the decisions, a bunch of counter threads complaining about everything from white knights to the counsel itself, all while many legitimate proposals that HAVE been put forth have only 2-3 pages of comments actually looking over them.

Seriously, It seems like people are more concerned about WHO proposes them as opposed to WHAT the physical proposals are.)

And you are correct and that's why im against a player counsel in the first place it is a total waste of time on PGI'S part and the community's part even if it was for information gathering that would become tainted by more arguments over which proposal to put forth to Russ and PGI.

A in-game vote-poll system would give PGI and staff a understanding of what is the more important issues they the in-game players perceive wrong or right with the core game itself. from the solo-pug-casual-and group players.

Edited by KingCobra, 17 September 2014 - 11:24 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Honestly though, if IM the one trying to get ppl to calm down and not fight something has gone terribly wrong

[wanderer]

Quote

While both nominees come from House of Lords,

And at that point, the screams of bias are inevitable. Not only is having differing points of view essential, it's impossible to do the job properly otherwise. One, but not both.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Peter2k, on 17 September 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

Ah, sorry mate
Long day

But still Heimdelight 9
Homeless Bill 63

Well, you know, luckily still obvious who would win there

Also one foul apple might not spoil the whole bunch if they're so quite opposite.

And wow with the fighting.

I nominate that the council be renamed into beancounters united or something the like.
Or game idea collecters.

Maybe then people will get the message
Ya right /s

Theyre looking at the top 8-12 ppl and if you look down the list he was getting in on that cut the last time I read it

[DEN_Ninja]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 September 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Honestly though, if IM the one trying to get ppl to calm down and not fight something has gone terribly wrong

I am just nodding my head up and down looking for nomnomnominations.

Time to kill between classes eating chips.

[IraqiWalker]

KingCobra, on 17 September 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

SpiralFace said (I mean seriously, we have 58 pages now of back and forth complaining about who's going to pass along the decisions, a bunch of counter threads complaining about everything from white knights to the counsel itself, all while many legitimate proposals that HAVE been put forth have only 2-3 pages of comments actually looking over them.

Seriously, It seems like people are more concerned about WHO proposes them as opposed to WHAT the physical proposals are.)

And you are correct and that's why im against a player counsel in the first place it is a total waste of time on PGI'S part and the community's part even if it was for information gathering that would become tainted by more arguments over which proposal to put forth to Russ and PGI.

A in-game vote-poll system would give PGI and staff a understanding of what is the more important issues they the in-game players perceive wrong or right with the core game itself.

That's the thing though. There would be no argument. The council would be taksed by PGI to find all the proposals for one issues (ECM for example), and the council would sift the forums, and put them all in a list, and present them to the community and PGI.

Again, for the love of God, actually read the posts related to this topic. Where would the discussion be for the council? They find an idea. Convert it into mechanics (if they're even allowed to do that), and then present the whole list to PGI and the community.