1306 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 12 September 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

...and I'd even say Livewyr and...

I chuckled. Thanks.

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We should probably establish whether the nominated want to take it on. (I have actually seen a relatively short list for the amount of people on the forums,15 or so)

You know darned well I would be an active part of it. I am fairly certain DocBach would be all over it too.

[Heffay]

MischiefSC, on 12 September 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

Dude... this is a gamers forum. We're not picking people to convey our respects to the Pope. I get that a lot of this is tongue-in-cheek but we can joke about it later. For now let's get the momentum moving in the right direction.


So are we cool with the idea of a moderated nomination thread at least? We run it for ~7 days, anything that isn't someones name of who you're voting for (not against) gets removed? If so I'll go beg a mod for help with it and we can get it started.

That will at least give us a viable list of names to start with. Then we can move on to narrowing that into a council and of what size and then the election process.

While we're doing all of this we'll have concurrent threads chewing on the ECM issue as a whole so that by the time we've got a council in place we'll have some solid stuff for them to handle.

Does that work? That sound viable?

And commence the vote stacking. We all know how this will end up. You'll have a council that represents the forums, not the players. And that's a bad, bad idea.

[Mark Brandhauber]

untill this is discussed in all the other language forums, it would not be truly representative of the player base.

[Stalkerr]

I would love to have another shot at this. I'm ready to be neutral and an advocate for the community, as much as they'll have me. I know I've been away for awhile, and perhaps I've lost my place, but if Russ is willing to listen, I am willing to speak and advocate once again.

#saveMWO may have been a bust, but the spirit of it lives on in those who believe that change is possible.

[Heffay]

You know what would be a better idea than an elected council? Randomly picking 9 people from the active playerbase.

[Livewyr]

Mark Brandhauber, on 12 September 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

untill this is discussed in all the other language forums, it would not be truly representative of the player base.

This is a good point. We should have a representation from the other language forums (with at least bilingual capability or a willing translator.)

[UBCslayer]

3rdworld, on 12 September 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Bishop would be a fine person, though he can get argumentative, he generally has knowledge over the topics. Even though I generally disagree with him. He can add a lore flavor to the discussion as well.

Roland would be a good addition. He understands the game and the mechanics.

From the comp crowd, I would probably elect Siri. He is probably one of the few that would care enough to do it, at this point. UBCSlayer also pugs more than anyone I know, and is a damn good player. He would probably enjoy it as well. I would nominate Twinky, but SwK is pretty much done with MWO at this point unfortunately.

Thanks for the mention 3rd... I tend to spend more time playing the game (I play 5+ hours a day, both in groups and solo queue) than posting on the forums, but would be happy to help out if asked. I already have a running dialogue with Russ on twitter regarding all things MWO so could probably provide input from a few different angles. Since my real life job is a teacher, and I live in British Columbia (we are on strike indefinitely) I have nothing but free time on my hands for the foreseeable future so this council thing would be right up my alley.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 12 September 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

Let me ask you this though - I have been reading what those two have been saying lately and they're pissed and bitter.

However, do you really think either would blow a chance to come back and actually have a useful voice in getting something done and changed? That's what they both flipped out over the most. They had ideas, saw and shilled for new ideas, and felt like it was ignored.

I respect both of them enough to believe that if given a chance to put on a respectable suit, shower and shave for public appearance they could represent people who've left MW:O but would love to come back and they could do it respectably and sensibly.

If neither is willing or up to that, well fine. I get that. If this thing doesn't include the voice of the dissenting segment of the games population though we're throwing away a hell of an opportunity.

Honestly, I do.

Also here is part of the thing. Many of us have very strong opinions. No denying that. But some of us can accept ours are not the ONLY way to make the game work. One of the biggest reasons both got banned, first from Russ's twitter, and then from MWO, was because neither was willing, even remotely, to consider their way might not be the best. And both hounded, to the point of trolling, Russ's twitter trying to force their PoV on him.

That is NOT effective leadership or representation.

And that is going to be one of the hardships in choosing your Council. You want ideas, but you want people who are open minded. And many of those nominated..... honestly are not. Why do you think many of us lock horns so furiously, so often? Mind you, many of them are good folk, with good ideas, and whom I can respect, but you need to find that right blend of Ideas, Open-mindedness and willingness to listen to the Forum Hordes.

That...will not be easy.

Mark Brandhauber, on 12 September 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

untill this is discussed in all the other language forums, it would not be truly representative of the player base.

Other languages and regions. Australia and such have concerns that North Americans might not even realize. Just as one example.

[Khobai]

Quote

If there's another way. Perhaps we set up a poll some with a proposal (ECM for example) and encourage the community to vote up/down the proposal.

Going further we could have several proposals and have the community vote the validity of the proposals and ranking them in order of importance.

Well its 2014. Theres absolutely no reason to have representation by proxy (i.e. republic). Thats an antiquated way of doing things based on a past time when everyone's opinions couldn't be quickly and accurately recorded. With a forum poll everyone gets to voice their opinion through direct democratic process.

The last thing we want or need is a council deciding what the community wants without them having a say in it. The sole responsibility of the council, like I said before, should be to sort out the good ideas from the bad ideas. PGI can then take those good ideas and poll the player base to determine which idea to go with.

[Bishop Steiner]

Heffay, on 12 September 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

You know what would be a better idea than an elected council? Randomly picking 9 people from the active playerbase.

Oooooph. Well, aside form needing all 9 to be willing.... 9 randoms also could land 9 duds.


Of course...so could 9 elected.

[3rdworld]

UBCslayer, on 12 September 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

I tend to spend more time playing the game (I play 5+ hours a day, both in groups and solo queue) than posting on the forums

The majority of people we play with are the exact same. I probably have as many forum posts than anyone I have ever played a comp match against combined. Most of SwK's members are in the single digits if they have ever even read the forums to begin with.

Edit: Audi has 1k posts so maybe not.

Edited by 3rdworld, 12 September 2014 - 01:27 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner is good.

As a direct-fire assault/heavy pilot, I would feel represented if Kaffeangst/Heimdelight/JagerXII were on there.

[Heffay]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 September 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Oooooph. Well, aside form needing all 9 to be willing.... 9 randoms also could land 9 duds.

Of course...so could 9 elected.

The odds are better on the randoms.

It's one of those things: You don't want anyone in a position of power that would actually want to be in a position of power. Make it a 6 month sentence (bonus 20k to keep them occupied) and then they become normal scrubs again.

[Punkass]

Homeless Bill
Koniving
Sandpit
Vassago Rain
Roadbeer.

[stjobe]

The way I see it, the "council" are merely spokespeople for the rest of the player base; the "council" isn't supposed to come up with "the plan" on their own, just gather and perhaps smooth out some of the rougher edges on the ideas that ANY player interested enough wants to put forth.

And, of course, administrate the voting that will inevitably need to be done to single out one coherent proposal that gets presented to PGI.

More work than power and prestige, in other words.

[3rdworld]

Heffay, on 12 September 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

The odds are better on the randoms.

It's one of those things: You don't want anyone in a position of power that would actually want to be in a position of power. Make it a 6 month sentence (bonus 20k to keep them occupied) and then they become normal scrubs again.

That is who should be balancing the game. Random scrubs.

And people wonder why this forum is a complete waste of time.

[Heffay]

Punkass, on 12 September 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

Homeless Bill
Koniving
Sandpit
Vassago Rain
Roadbeer.

I'm pretty sure at least 3 of the 5 listed there have advocated for PGI to go hang themselves. I don't think we should have a council where the majority of the members are only going to vote "Sell the IP" over and over and over again.

[Training Instructor]

I don't want someone speaking for me. I'd elect someone to present ideas that were voted on by the entire player base.

Individuals have agendas, no matter how clear of heart they may think they are when they start. Ask them to decide for themselves which topics deserve to be focused on, and they'll pick the ones closest to their heart, not the ones that are necessarily the best use of their time or the most serious.

You could get some guy who truly fights for the interests of players, or you could get some popular guy who decides to spend their time demanding that clan XL engines be nerfed.

[Tolkien]

Heffay, on 12 September 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

And commence the vote stacking. We all know how this will end up. You'll have a council that represents the forums, not the players. And that's a bad, bad idea.

You only think this is a bad idea because you think the forums are too hard on PGI. Wake up, the entire internet understands PGI has failed with MWO so far and that is why their space game has made less than 3% of the targeted goal in the last 24 hours.

PGI needs to start listening to people who will tell them like it is (e.g. Anders, Standing Cow, Vassago Rain) not the hugbox from NGNG. Otherwise we will get more of this:


When considering the above, the council obviously needs the power to veto additions or removals of features. Seriously. Otherwise what is the point of the council other than to be ignored when convenient.

Edited by Tolkien, 12 September 2014 - 01:31 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Heffay, on 12 September 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

And commence the vote stacking. We all know how this will end up. You'll have a council that represents the forums, not the players. And that's a bad, bad idea.

Every democracy and representative republic in the world is based off of counting votes from the people who care to vote.

If someone doesn't get engaged enough to come to forums and read these threads then... well, too bad so sad.

Random selection is also a bad idea for the same reason no active society does it for governance - you're too likely to get uninterested people or people lacking the basic skills to get an idea forward.

These people are not being elected to have executive authority over the lives of every player in MW:O. This is just the folks we selecting to try and refine down the static and volume of general opinions into something that can reasonably be discussed. The actual ECM changes should get their own popular vote - the point of the council is just to refine down those suggestions into something we can legitimately vote on and speak with a single unified voice on behalf of the community to PGI.