1306 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Elizander, on 12 September 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

This might seem fine and all, but it seems like this is just setting up someone else to point the blame on when things go wrong.

You Doomsayer!

But, if you're right, then I would gladly share the responsibility of burden...

.. but being on good-terms with the people at IGP and PGI might automatically get me disqualified, especially the IGP part.

Edit - I look at many of the names on that list, and it includes people who openly use vulgarity and insulting language in regular discussion. I don't think those are the best liaisons for us to choose. Many of those names are good people who act like they have manners, too. I would like to see some more polite people on that list being chosen to represent the community.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 12 September 2014 - 07:58 PM.

[El Bandito]

Just five person for the council is fine. Others can just PM them to get their ideas across.

Elizander, on 12 September 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

This might seem fine and all, but it seems like this is just setting up someone else to point the blame on when things go wrong.

Hey, I will eat community's **** all day, throw up, and eat it again, if PGI makes me the Balance Director.

There are tons of current balance issues that can be solved with simple number changes alone.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 September 2014 - 07:59 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 September 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

Sarcasm or....?

simple wordplay. Relax.

Elizander, on 12 September 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

This might seem fine and all, but it seems like this is just setting up someone else to point the blame on when things go wrong.

Yup. My feeling exactly. You think my declining was pure altruism?

I don't think Russ is trying to set up a fall guy, but that is exactly what will happen. Whether our ideas don't fly, or not, there will be people upset with the results. Period. And IMO, all this does is paint a huge target on whomever is the Poster Boy for it to be the new punching bag.

I see the amount of crap even the "good" Devs get.

No freaking thank you.

[Ripper X]

Peter2000 and Vercinaigh.

[Bishop Steiner]

Prosperity Park, on 12 September 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

You Doomsayer!

But, if you're right, then I would gladly share the responsibility of burden...

.. but being on good-terms with the people at IGP and PGI might automatically get me disqualified, especially the IGP part.

Edit - I look at many of the names on that list, and it includes people who openly use vulgarity and insulting language in regular discussion. I don't think those are the best liaisons for us to choose. Many of those names are good people who act like they have manners, too. I would like to see some more polite people on that list being chosen to represent the community.

Actually... heck, I can't believe no one has put you on the list. (Or I missed it if they did)

But you would be a more useful contributor than me, that's for dang sure.

Also your point on how one comports themselves, both in attitude, and language, is indeed important. One of the reasons I see no point in Sandpit or Roadbeer is the simple fact that I know there can be no civil dialogue between them and Russ at this point. And I doubt I could trust Vass to, either, TBH. (Heck, Roadbeer has openly mad it his life's goal to bring PGI down..yeah that would be a great addition.)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 September 2014 - 08:26 PM.

[wanderer]

I'll volunteer. Eventually, we'll get to community warfare.

How many people here are old enough to remember what online Mechwarrior CW was like? And were in on it? Me. And likely a few others, but I'm not sure how many of the truly Old Guard are left between PGI abuse and leaving in disgust at the state of the game.

Oh, and I'm Liao. That means sweet AND sour as needed and plenty saucy. I'm oldschool TT, keep up on the fluff and the crunch and I don't kiss up to specific units BECAUSE there needs to be people who are just "veteran player".

I've memed the game with Prosperity Park and company since beta, can coexist with everything from Goons to Lords and anything less silly in between, and only have faith in common sense and the Law of Murphy (no, not the unit named Murphy's Law). I've seen PUG hell and HARD CORPS heaven (or is that the other way around?) I know units, I know solo, and I know entire House-sized organizations and played it to win when you paid to slog giant robots around by the hour.

Oh, and I once did Mike Tyson's toy shopping for Christmas. But that's another thing entirely. Suffice it to say I've done business with the owners of sports teams, Middle Eastern royalty, and crazed action figure collectors alike. You want someone to help you play the talky-talky game with PGI, I'm in. Just remember, anyone in on this has only whatever "power" PGI grants them and is basically unpaid help, right next to whatever poor shmuck they might intern (LOL) as a community rep to help Niko out. Whoever you elect is nothing more than the first voices PGI will hear, and worth no less than the guy who still thinks a flamer-boating Locust is top-tier robot destroyed A+.

[Kaspirikay]

No, a player council won't sit well after awhile. There have been accusations of personal agendas that conflict with public interest to those that sit on the CSM in Eve Online.

I am against a player council.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kaspirikay, on 12 September 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

No, a player council won't sit well after awhile. There have been accusations of personal agendas that conflict with public interest to those that sit on the CSM in Eve Online.

I am against a player council.

I generally agree, but that is only if it were standing post. I think possibly one formed as an advisory committee as needed could be useful. To last only until a specific problem has been deemed addressed. In this instance, to rework ECM.

Though possibly I would say put limits in it, so that people don't enforce an agenda. Like make each person only eligible once or twice...so they pick or choose carefully which times and what issues they are willing to work on it.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 September 2014 - 08:32 PM.

[Dark Jackal]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 September 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

Yup. My feeling exactly. You think my declining was pure altruism?

I don't think Russ is trying to set up a fall guy, but that is exactly what will happen. Whether our ideas don't fly, or not, there will be people upset with the results. Period. And IMO, all this does is paint a huge target on whomever is the Poster Boy for it to be the new punching bag.

I see the amount of crap even the "good" Devs get.

No freaking thank you.

And that's something that should not happen as we're all here that want to have fun with MWO as that's what it's all about. Considering how much time and effort this will consume from the person it is also like having a second job and an unpopular one when it looks like we're spinning our wheels and nothing is happening. Also, I'm not too keen on supporting a council as some sort of replacement to normal feedback process. I'm just tossing that last bit out, I'm aware Russ didn't quite say he was removing feedback and what not, just trying to avoid a slippery slope.

Now, if folks do want to take the initiative on their own and want to dedicate their time and effort then I wish them much luck as they will need it. I just hope that this is in tandem to what we normally do as part of the feedback process.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dark Jackal, on 12 September 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

And that's something that should not happen as we're all here that want to have fun with MWO as that's what it's all about. Considering how much time and effort this will consume from the person it is also like having a second job and an unpopular one when it looks like we're spinning our wheels and nothing is happening. Also, I'm not too keen on supporting a council as some sort of replacement to normal feedback process. I'm just tossing that last bit out, I'm aware Russ didn't quite say he was removing feedback and what not, just trying to avoid a slippery slope.

Now, if folks do want to take the initiative on their own and want to dedicate their time and effort then I wish them much luck as they will need it. I just hope that this is in tandem to what we normally do as part of the feedback process.

Oh I agree, it SHOULD not.

But really, have you been on Reddit? Have you seen out own forums? Sadly what should be, and what is, ain't altogether but similar.

[Asmudius Heng]

I am actually usually against player councils as well

But since PGI have a lot of difficulty sifting through good and bad ideas in the community, and generally have not done the greatest balance a job I think you can admit. Having well-respected members of the community as some sort of focus group is probably a good idea for this game

Though I do not think it should be something continual and ongoing all you do Breede the strange power struggles

[ApolloKaras]

Absolutely chalk one more up for Adiuvo, he can represent the light pilots well!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Honestly why does it have to be a council, why can't we just have a focus testing group that is actually public...or a Testing group like we had in NBT-HC for the Beta version. For whatever reason, the requirement of having to apply to a group even though it had no requirements and 99% of the people got in really limited the number of "LRMs are OP" esque threads.

I could be out of my mind because of how small the community was for NBT-HC but maybe thinking of it as a council is not needed, maybe we just need a public focus group containing people like those nominated.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 12 September 2014 - 08:42 PM.

[Dark Jackal]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 September 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Oh I agree, it SHOULD not.

But really, have you been on Reddit? Have you seen out own forums? Sadly what should be, and what is, ain't altogether but similar.

You bet and for a long time I avoided heavy engagement on the forums considering how much effort it takes to properly communicate something rather than rant or resort to polemic euphemisms to TT players, previous Mech players, and oddly Founders tag holders. Usually, if folks are given an avenue to express something they have fun taking the time out to give real feedback on what delights them the most. After all, the customer is the heart of everything.

It's unfortunate as I expected Russ to come on the Q&A Town Hall like he was Steve Ballmer with a sense and enthusiasm they're going to surprise and delight the customer. Boy was I in for a 3 hour ride with at least 700 other people!

[Elizander]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 September 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

simple wordplay. Relax.


Yup. My feeling exactly. You think my declining was pure altruism?

I don't think Russ is trying to set up a fall guy, but that is exactly what will happen. Whether our ideas don't fly, or not, there will be people upset with the results. Period. And IMO, all this does is paint a huge target on whomever is the Poster Boy for it to be the new punching bag.

I see the amount of crap even the "good" Devs get.

No freaking thank you.

I understand that it's generally a move to consolidate opinion and if everyone agrees that Player X says this is what the community wants and that is what is done then if people are unhappy then it will go:

1) Community told Player X Representative that they wanted Y and they gave Y so they did what the community wanted.
2) Player X should be popular, respected and charismatic enough to convince the members of the community that PGI did what they wanted.

The ideal would be:

1) Player X gets exactly what 80%+ of the community wants, PGI implements and the community is happy, PGI revenue goes up and Player X becomes the people's champ and gets his own hero mech designed after him (chances of this happening though given everyone's differing opinions...)

Ideally that would be the end goal of the setup. I'm not vehemently against it but I thought I'd throw in my piece of risk assessment and forecasting on it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 September 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

1st Sorry, no way we can allow Wispy, Audivio, Heimdelight or anyone in their clan on the "council".

They would simply LORD it over us.


well...lets just say, as a trained rescue diver , 2nd I know of great places to hide bodies........


i kid...i kid.......

1st off. The only Person that Lords over me, Sleeps in my bed. And NOBODY on the forum has that pleasure.

2nd, I watched Dexter!

[Asmudius Heng]

WM Quicksilver, on 12 September 2014 - 08:42 PM, said:

Honestly why does it have to be a council, why can't we just have a focus testing group that is actually public...or a Testing group like we had in NBT-HC for the Beta version. For whatever reason, the requirement of having to apply to a group even though it had no requirements and 99% of the people got in really limited the number of "LRMs are OP" esque threads.

I could be out of my mind because of how small the community was for NBT-HC but maybe thinking of it as a council is not needed, maybe we just need a public focus group containing people like those nominated.

I think the problem is that for testing that might work, but for critical reasoning and new ideas that will be feasible etc its best to have a smaller group to brainstorm.

Then a larger group for review and sense check, and then a test server type arrangement which they already do to test it live should the devs believe its worthy to try etc.

Also NBT had many people already on the same page in a aged and mature game - the diversity of MWO and its desire to attract new people in a F2P model kind of means the old MW4 ways might not meld quite the same.

However yea, having test servers like they do before implementation would be good not because of the data which is too limited but a wider range of people who care enough to try it and give feedback can then help any final additions and changes before implementation into the game proper

[DEN_Ninja]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 September 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

Actually... heck, I can't believe no one has put you on the list. (Or I missed it if they did)

But you would be a more useful contributor than me, that's for dang sure.

Also your point on how one comports themselves, both in attitude, and language, is indeed important. One of the reasons I see no point in Sandpit or Roadbeer is the simple fact that I know there can be no civil dialogue between them and Russ at this point. And I doubt I could trust Vass to, either, TBH. (Heck, Roadbeer has openly mad it his life's goal to bring PGI down..yeah that would be a great addition.)

Keeping track of all these nomnomnominations. So many
https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing
____________________________________________
Side Note;

The Player Council is basically in my mind are the people who put together a lot of conflicting opinions and ideas from all walks of MWO. From there they should mediate and present a plan after cherry picking what is good and bad. Perhaps presenting more than one plan for ECM alone. The Player Council itself is not a permanent entity but one that forms when the need arises. It disbands afterwards. We pick new folks every time PGI ask for focused community input.

This time around I'd like Homeless Bill, Kiiyor, Siriothrax, JagerXII and TheMagician to head this council and basically pick part ECM and put it back together. ECM is a major balancing issue/point, need some skilled players and folks that digest data very well. that's just my two cents and vote.

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 12 September 2014 - 09:24 PM.

[TLBFestus]

If I'm going to be honest I'd acknowledge that I plan to vote for people I do not like for this "experiment".

Some of them have already been mentioned/nominated, so just to be clear, they've got my vote! I figure it will be much more devastating than verbally sparring with them on the forums, AND I can't be accused of attacking them.

On a side note, I see a lot of Competitive and Clan players being mentioned, but the PUGs are woefully under represented. Right there the slope seems to be "tilted" a bit already.

Honestly, this is a horrible, horrible idea, and no good will come of it, well except for the total annihilation of a deserved few. No one can't say some amongst us haven't pointed this out.

Edited by TLBFestus, 12 September 2014 - 09:42 PM.

[Asmudius Heng]

Tichorius Davion, on 12 September 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

Keeping track of all these nomnomnominations. So many
https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing
____________________________________________
Side Note;

The Player Council is basically in my mind are the people who put together a lot of conflicting opinions and ideas from all walks of MWO. From there they should mediate and present a plan after cherry picking what is good and bad. Perhaps presenting more than one plan for ECM alone. The Player Council itself is not a permanent entity but one that forms when the need arises. It disbands afterwards. We pick new folks every time PGI ask for focused community input.

This time around I'd like Homeless Bill, Kiiyor, Siriothrax, JagerXII and TheMagician to head this council and basically pick part ECM and put it back together. ECM is a major balancing issue/point, need some skilled players and folks that digest data very well. that's just my two cents and vote.

Yea that makes a lot of sense. No permanence though nothign stopping people being chosen again etc if they do a good job.

Though i do worry that the focus on singular systems and issues does not address a broader scope needed - but most of the guys listed i am sure will do a good job of staying within the breif but making sure to add recommendations further afield as well.

Awww my one vote didnt get me in lol

TLBFestus, on 12 September 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

If I'm going to be honest I'd acknowledge that I plan to vote for people I do not like for this "experiment".

Some of them have already been mentioned/nominated, so just to be clear, they've got my vote! I figure it will be much more devastating than verbally sparring with them on the forums, AND I can't be accused of attacking them.

On a side note, I see a lot of Competitive and Clan players being mentioned, but the PUGs are woefully under represented. Right there the slope seems to be "tilted" a bit already.

It is harder to find vocal puggers maybe as they eventually gravite to at least a casual unit.

Who is a vocal and respected PUG only player?