1306 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 September 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

This is what im worried about given that ppl keep saying these guys will have no power at all... then whats the point?

What people are missing is just how much content needs sifted to find a viable idea to turn into a game mechanic, then how much work is involved in turning that general mechanic into a balanced solution. It's a lot of man-hours. It's a lot of work. Then you turn that over to other people to judge and tell you how terrible your suggestion is, where upon you get to go back, rip it apart and put it back together again.

And again.

And again.

That's not about making decisions; it's about doggedly working on an idea until he's viable and acceptable and everyone says 'Yeah, yeah that's what we wanted'.

That needs a group of people and a lot of hours of work.

You need a committee, you need a task force or whatever you want to call it and they need to be willing to grind hours making it work.

That's not about power - it's about contribution and responsibility.

[Rebas Kradd]

Creovex, on 16 September 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

Don't get mad because I am being honest.

It is possible to be honest without being tactless.

[Creovex]

MischiefSC, on 16 September 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

What people are missing is just how much content needs sifted to find a viable idea to turn into a game mechanic, then how much work is involved in turning that general mechanic into a balanced solution. It's a lot of man-hours. It's a lot of work. Then you turn that over to other people to judge and tell you how terrible your suggestion is, where upon you get to go back, rip it apart and put it back together again.

And again.

And again.

That's not about making decisions; it's about doggedly working on an idea until he's viable and acceptable and everyone says 'Yeah, yeah that's what we wanted'.

That needs a group of people and a lot of hours of work.

You need a committee, you need a task force or whatever you want to call it and they need to be willing to grind hours making it work.

That's not about power - it's about contribution and responsibility.

Personal bias will make this fail, as it always does. League players will down all pug positive ideas, pugs will hate on leagues and nobody will focus on the only true goal this game should have at this time....GET MORE PEOPLE PLAYING IT!!!

Rebas Kradd, on 16 September 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

It is possible to be honest without being tactless.

I can't help you hug your kid when they do something wrong and I prefer to spank them. We have different approaches, mine is more direct but is an HONEST assessment.

I see you haven't mentioned the analysis, thus I take that as you see that it is subjective and not beneficial. Thanks for validating my point.

Good night and REALLY think about it.

Edited by Creovex, 16 September 2014 - 07:57 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

Peiper, on 13 September 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

I get the feeling that this thread is not about who has the best ideas, but who is the most popular troll.

Exactly why I am against it.

As I've stated emphatically in the first couple pages, this is a horrible idea that will only lead to animosity, contention, and bitterness among the player base.

I maintain that each and every person that is an active member of this community should have an equal say in what transpires here. If they have an idea they want to be heard, it should be voted on. If they disagree with something, they should be able to contest it directly...not through another party.

We need to be voting for IDEAS...not people.

[Peiper]

Bhael Fire, on 16 September 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

We need to be voting for IDEAS...not people.

I was just thinking this and wrote this before I'd even realized you quoted me! Cosmic event? Anyway...

I still don't understand why a council is even necessary. As I said 30 pages ago or whenever, the process for ECM revision should be simple. Create a thread, only one post allowed per person, and those people can put their proposal for change up. We then vote via 'likes' - or - via a poll which ideas we like. The community can vote for only one.

Take the top five liked or voted on solutions, and do another vote, whittling them down to the top two ideas.

Do another vote to determine the top idea.

Put the vote to the public - that is, a Yes/No vote on the idea. If enough people in the community vote yes, and PGI is willing to make the change, it happens.

Why must you all make things so complicated??

Like Bhael Fire says, this isn't about PEOPLE, it's about ideas.

(And because this thread is so damned long, I expect this suggestion to be lost to the mess, but just in case people see and agree with the idea this time, there it is!)

Edited by Peiper, 16 September 2014 - 08:20 PM.

[Roland]

The problem with your idea peiper, is that it doesn't allow for any refinement or combination of different ideas.. You would just have a big list of ideas that are likely to all be incomplete, where the best option would be a combination of elements from many of them.

That being said, I'm probably just gonna skip most of this junk at this point and post up a writeup on sensors I've been thinking about for a while.

[MischiefSC]

Peiper, on 16 September 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

I still don't understand why a council is even necessary. As I said 30 pages ago or whenever, the process for ECM revision should be simple. Create a thread, only one post allowed per person, and those people can put their proposal for change up. We then vote via 'likes' - or - via a poll which ideas we like. The community can vote for only one.

Take the top five liked or voted on solutions, and do another vote, whittling them down to the top two ideas.

Do another vote to determine the top idea.

Put the vote to the public - that is, a Yes/No vote on the idea. If enough people in the community vote yes, and PGI is willing to make the change, it happens.

Why must you all make things so complicated??

(And because this thread is so damned long, I expect this suggestion to be lost to the mess, but just in case people see and agree with the idea this time, there it is!)



I still don't understand why a council is even necessary. As I said 30 pages ago or whenever, the process for ECM revision should be simple. Create a thread, only one post allowed per person, and those people can put their proposal for change up. We then vote via 'likes' - or - via a poll which ideas we like. The community can vote for only one.

Take the top five liked or voted on solutions, and do another vote, whittling them down to the top two ideas.

Do another vote to determine the top idea.

Put the vote to the public - that is, a Yes/No vote on the idea. If enough people in the community vote yes, and PGI is willing to make the change, it happens.

Why must you all make things so complicated??

(And because this thread is so damned long, I expect this suggestion to be lost to the mess, but just in case people see and agree with the idea this time, there it is!)

Because people see a vague idea they like but that's not actually a mechanic that can implemented. 'Make ECM more like TT' would probably get a ton of upvotes. What does that even look like?

It will also have like 10 or 12 posts that would be similar, in varying degrees of detail.

Someone needs to pile them all into one idea (becaues they are the same idea in different words) and turn it into game mechanics.

[Sam Slade]

I nominate myself

Edit: I also vote for myself and will, if necessary, form a council by myself containing only myself.

The above should be carefully considered when choosing members.

P.S.: The PPC disabling ECM was my idea and they did it... I have a proven history in creating positive change but it must be done under the umbrella of job creation because, as 75% of people know, we need to put our economy back on track while reducing taxes and easing the burden on Average Joe... but all under the umbrella of job creation. In conclusion vote Kang for job creation.

Edited by Sam Slade, 16 September 2014 - 08:34 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

MischiefSC, on 16 September 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

What people are missing is just how much content needs sifted to find a viable idea to turn into a game mechanic, then how much work is involved in turning that general mechanic into a balanced solution. It's a lot of man-hours. It's a lot of work. Then you turn that over to other people to judge and tell you how terrible your suggestion is, where upon you get to go back, rip it apart and put it back together again.

And again.

And again.

That's not about making decisions; it's about doggedly working on an idea until he's viable and acceptable and everyone says 'Yeah, yeah that's what we wanted'.

That needs a group of people and a lot of hours of work.

You need a committee, you need a task force or whatever you want to call it and they need to be willing to grind hours making it work.

That's not about power - it's about contribution and responsibility.

Generally the group; youre talking about here is called the developer

[Roadbeer]

So, I went out for a couple cocktails... whadidi miss?

Edited by Roadbeer, 16 September 2014 - 08:45 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

MischiefSC, on 16 September 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

Because people see a vague idea they like but that's not actually a mechanic that can implemented. 'Make ECM more like TT' would probably get a ton of upvotes. What does that even look like?

It will also have like 10 or 12 posts that would be similar, in varying degrees of detail.

Someone needs to pile them all into one idea (becaues they are the same idea in different words) and turn it into game mechanics.

THOSE are called forum mods

[Bhael Fire]

Whatever voting system they adopt, I hope it's placed in the client patcher where ALL players can see it and they provide an option for "Other."

[Roadbeer]

Bhael Fire, on 16 September 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

Whatever voting system they adopt, I hope it's placed in the client patcher where ALL players can see it and they provide an option for "Other."

Well, aren't you just a ball of sunshine and optimism?

[Bhael Fire]

I'm not down with Prom King/Queen elections. Sorry.

But if I had to vote for Prom King/Queen it'd be a toss up between Roadbeer and Sandpit.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 16 September 2014 - 09:06 PM.
Removed Trollbait

[Roadbeer]

Bhael Fire, on 16 September 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

I'm not down with Prom King/Queen elections. Sorry.

But if I had to vote it'd be a toss up between Roadbeer and Sandpit.

1/10
Obvious flamebait is obvious.

Edited by Mal, 16 September 2014 - 09:01 PM.
Removed quoted moderated content

[Bhael Fire]

Roadbeer, on 16 September 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

1/10
Obvious flamebait is obvious.

Razzing joke...is apparently not so obvious.

Edited by Mal, 16 September 2014 - 09:07 PM.
Cleaned up

[Creovex]

Bhael Fire, on 16 September 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

I'm not down with Prom King/Queen elections. Sorry.

But if I had to vote [REDACTED] it'd be a toss up between Roadbeer and Sandpit.

Genius!

[FactorlanP]

Roland, on 16 September 2014 - 08:20 PM, said:

The problem with your idea peiper, is that it doesn't allow for any refinement or combination of different ideas.. You would just have a big list of ideas that are likely to all be incomplete, where the best option would be a combination of elements from many of them.

That being said, I'm probably just gonna skip most of this junk at this point and post up a writeup on sensors I've been thinking about for a while.

I proposed, somewhere recently, that a special Forum section be set up for the specific purpose of proposing ideas. Player has an idea, he creates a thread and explains it. Then ALL posts in the thread MUST be a discussion of the idea. ANYTHING that is not actual discussion gets modded out.

Would require serious mod activity to keep the threads from being derailed, but might prove to be the best venue for ideas.

Edited by FactorlanP, 16 September 2014 - 09:04 PM.

[DaZur]

I would not vote on any council that would have me as a member...

Reality is I don't play well with others and I eat crackers in bed.

[Mal]

<moderator hat on>

Play nice. Let's leave the insults, flame bait, trolling, ad hominem attacks, etc.. out of it.

Good things can come from the new direction, let's not hose it up before it gets started... okay?