83 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

With the RIDICULOUS rate of fire, cockpit shake, apparent lack of heat, low risk, high return of loading up clan 'mechs with the various AC's and setting up bullet hoses, why in the heck hasn't PGI dealt with the extreme OP of the varous clans AC's?

The hop all over the lasers, which, in my opinion weren't anywhere near as much of a problem as the clans AC's are.

Seriously, by now it 'feels' like something suspicious is going on.

[Lynx7725]

.... Can I check if you are expressing the above from the recipient end of the AC fire or the other end?

[Carrie Harder]

Not sure if serious.

Clan UACs pay a relatively high amount of tonnage like most ballistics, but lack the FLD element of IS ACs to make up for it. The UAC/20 in particular has a ridiculously long burst (0.17 seconds between each projectile, 5 projectiles total).

They require more face-time than simply aim-once fire-and-forget like FLD weapons, and spread their damage over multiple body parts most of the time. You also have to try to track the whole burst over the target, requiring more aiming ability than lasers do (which are hitscan), which can be hard with the slower projectile UAC/10 and UAC/20.

Edited by Carrie Harder, 13 September 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Just thinking it's odd that a 'mech can seemingly endlessly put out a DPS rate that can chew through Atlas's fully armored torso in less than 30 seconds.

That a clan 'mech with 4 or more AC's, with 'supposed' spread can out damage a quad gauss carrier, with pinpoint damage.

Either AC's are broke, or Atlas armor and gauss are broken.

[Mystere]

Frankly, I like Clan ACs for suppressive fire, but prefer IS ACs for the business of killing.

Just imagine the horror of what I can do (i.e. trolling) when Clan LB-X weapons eventually become capable of switching between scatter and solid shots. <manical >

[Ultimax]

Carrie Harder, on 13 September 2014 - 09:41 PM, said:

Not sure if serious.

Yeah I'm having a twilight zone moment here.


At Dimento,

I can assume you have had an issue with a Dire Wolf.


This is pretty much the only mech that makes Clan UACs useful, because it can boat 3 to 6 of them depending.


Clan UACs are on the whole, worse than the available Laser Options and outside of doing more "DPS" if your enemys' let you shoot them in the same spot - they are generally inferior to IS ACs.



I just want to check, you do understand that each "bullet" fired from a Clan UAC does a fraction of the damage correct?

[Carrie Harder]

Dimento Graven, on 13 September 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

Just thinking it's odd that a 'mech can seemingly endlessly put out a DPS rate that can chew through Atlas's fully armored torso in less than 30 seconds.

That a clan 'mech with 4 or more AC's, with 'supposed' spread can out damage a quad gauss carrier, with pinpoint damage.

Either AC's are broke, or Atlas armor and gauss are broken.

The only Clan mech with 4+ ACs is gonna be a Dire Whale. Dire Whales have huge firepower in general; this isn't something specific to AC boating. Other crazy strong builds include 2 Gauss + 2 ERPPC and 2 Gauss + a bunch of ERLL and ERML, which also om nom nom people who stand in front of it for too long.

This isn't a Clan AC problem, this is a Dire Whale problem (and I personally find that the Whale's extreme lack of speed and agility 'mostly' keep its extreme firepower in check).

Edited by Carrie Harder, 13 September 2014 - 09:52 PM.

[Lynx7725]

Carrie Harder, on 13 September 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

The only Clan mech with 4+ ACs is gonna be a Dire Whale. Dire Whales have huge firepower in general; this isn't something specific to AC boating. Other crazy strong builds include 2 Gauss + 2 ERPPC and 2 Gauss + a bunch of ERLL and ERML, which also om nom nom people who stand in front of it for too long.

You forgot the 9 CERPPC build.

[Carrie Harder]

Lynx7725, on 13 September 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

You forgot the 9 CERPPC build.

Well, that build is certainly very powerful but it only works one time per match...

[Ultimax]

Dimento Graven, on 13 September 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

Just thinking it's odd that a 'mech can seemingly endlessly put out a DPS rate that can chew through Atlas's fully armored torso in less than 30 seconds.

That a clan 'mech with 4 or more AC's, with 'supposed' spread can out damage a quad gauss carrier, with pinpoint damage.

Either AC's are broke, or Atlas armor and gauss are broken.

If you give my DWF-Prime with Dual Gauss + Massed Lasers 1.6s, it will do 80 damage to a single, maybe 2 components.



Also Gauss in general has lower DPS than most equivalent AC set ups, this is due to their Recycle time + the charge up time (nearly 5s total).


A single, humble, AC 5 has almost as much DPS as a Gauss rifle that weighs nearly 2x as much.

2x AC 5s, much less UAC 5s, completely out DPS one Gauss.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 13 September 2014 - 10:00 PM.

[Lynx7725]

Carrie Harder, on 13 September 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

Well, that build is certainly very powerful but it only works one time per match...

I challenge that misconception! It works TWICE per match with override!

[Elizander]

I'll have to admit that the Clan UAC/10 is probably the only weapon you need to bring.

Maybe some lasers to press when it jams.

Edited by Elizander, 13 September 2014 - 10:00 PM.

[El Bandito]

Nobody likes to experience earthquake simulator, but to ask for nerfs other than impulse reduction from Clan ACs is just dumb.

[Dimento Graven]

The point is, the 'draw back' of the clan AC's to balance them was supposed to be that the damage was going to 'spread', only it isn't being spread 'enough' to be much of a 'balancing' factor.

The clan AC's aren't spreading so it's nearly pin point and when you stack 3 or more of those things all going off at the same time, or chained, with the TRUE dual heat sinks in clan 'mechs...

Again, the affect is a pin point bullet hose, most heavier 'mechs won't be able to torso twist fast enough to spread the damage before they're being critted out by the AC's higher crit potential.

The weapon 'feels' out of whack.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Give them all reduced impulse, then reduce the burst time to compensate. I want my C-UACs to sound like M16s on burst fire. BRRRRAP!

Lynx7725, on 13 September 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

I challenge that misconception! It works TWICE per match with override!

Can a mech actually survive long enough for the PPCs to cool down?

[Bishop Steiner]

Not sure if vying for a Golden Locky Award for worst troll post, or just a Golden Steering Wheel for demonstrating how bad a pilot he is.

Because seriously, any Clan jock would give up their Clan XL for IS Autocannons. PP-FLD is more than worth a ton or two more weight.

"OMG!!! Let me have burst fire damage that spreads all over the enemy mech over doing one huge chunk of pinpoint damage!!!" Said no smart pilot ever.

[Dimento Graven]

You might win the award for the worst reading comprehension:

The spread isn't that significant, especially on larger 'mechs with larger hit boxes.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

El Bandito, on 13 September 2014 - 10:06 PM, said:

Nobody likes to experience earthquake simulator, but to ask for nerfs other than impulse reduction from Clan ACs is just dumb.

So much this.
If those projectiles do only a fraction of damage, why they pack such a powerful shake?)

Edited by Duncan Jr Fischer, 13 September 2014 - 10:41 PM.

[Remarius]

Dimento Graven, on 13 September 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

You might win the award for the worst reading comprehension:

The spread isn't that significant, especially on larger 'mechs with larger hit boxes.

Only if you stand there to take it.

PS: I only have 1 non Direwolf mounting AC's atm out of 21 mechs. Lots of IS mechs mounting AC's....

[Bishop Steiner]

Dimento Graven, on 13 September 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

You might win the award for the worst reading comprehension:

The spread isn't that significant, especially on larger 'mechs with larger hit boxes.

lol. L2P.