50 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

EboneezeeR, on 16 September 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Let's admit that you just don't know the Lore difference between IS AC's and Clans AC's.

I do.
1) Clans don't have ACs. Though they have some remnant IS ACs when their stuff is stretched thin. Same with standard IS technology, Clans have some left over stuff.
2) IS bore sizes go up to 185mm. (Highest one I've ever found). Clan bore sizes go up to 203mm.
3) IS ACs are burst or auto fire. Clan UACs are burst or auto fire. LBXs either use cluster shot or standard AC ammo (also burst or autofire). Only Sarna has ever mentioned slugs and only on LBX-20s, in which case one must remember that these pages are made by the fans, such fans that believe "1 unit of ammo" = "one shot" instead of "1 use." These people obviously also believe 1 machine gun bullet of the 12.5mm to 25mm variety also does 2 damage, and fires once in 10 seconds. (...like, really?)
4) The Crusher Super Heavy Cannon fires 10 shots at 2 damage each in a rapid burst. It is magazine fed. Magazines in BT are called Cassettes. 1 unit of ammo = 1 cassette.
5) The Chemjet Gun, one of the largest AC/20s at 185mm that the IS has, fires 4 shots at 5 damage each in a 'slow burst'. It is magazine fed.
6) Autocannons are not limited to ranges of 270 to 660 but instead those are the maximum 'likely' ranges for the average 4/5 (4 gunnery, 5 piloting) pilot to achieve solid hits when countering against recoil against a stationary target. Note that a burst fire AC's main inhibitor is the massive amount of recoil.
7) The typical AC/2 range is 25mm to 90mm. (25 for the LBX-2 and UAC/2, 30 for the AC/2). I've never seen a 90mm AC/2 of any sort, but that's the official list. The typical AC/5 ranges from 40mm to 120mm from examples found. An 80mm typically requires 10 shots to make 5 damage. A 120mm requires 3 shots to make 5 damage. The AC/10 ranges from 80mm to 120mm based on examples found, and is simply described as firing much faster than an AC/5. The AC/20 ranges from 100 to 185mm for IS and at 100mm is typically "15-to-16" shots with 16 being consistent with damages. The 185mm I already described. The Ultra 20s go up to 203mm, which is the only debatable one shot in existence as far as concrete solid lore.

Tabletop cannot possibly account for the 60+ medium laser variants (44 of which are unique and these are exclusively standard IS medium lasers) much less the 24+ total variants of AC/20 in the 3050 timeline.

Anything else?
Oh right I almost forgot, there's an exception in the Victor's AC/20, which fires "100 shots" to get 20 damage.
Though said to be 100mm, I suspect this is a writer's error. The actual shot to damage count ratio is respectful of a 30mm AC/2 (10 shots to get 2 damage, 100 shots to get 20 damage).
It could also be 100mm in bore size but very short bullets instead of the typical sabot-style standardized HEAP rounds. This has never been made clear however. Still, I love the manual reload for a Victor's AC/20 and the primary and secondary feeding mechanisms. Would be really cinematic.

Edited by Koniving, 16 September 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[EboneezeeR]

Koniving, on 16 September 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

I do.
1) Clans don't have ACs. Though they have some remnant IS ACs when their stuff is stretched thin. Same with standard IS technology, Clans have some left over stuff.
2) IS bore sizes go up to 185mm. (Highest one I've ever found). Clan bore sizes go up to 203mm.
3) IS ACs are burst or auto fire. Clan UACs are burst or auto fire. LBXs either use cluster shot or standard AC ammo (also burst or autofire). Only Sarna has ever mentioned slugs and only on LBX-20s, in which case one must remember that these pages are made by the fans, such fans that believe "1 unit of ammo" = "one shot" instead of "1 use." These people obviously also believe 1 machine gun bullet of the 12.5mm to 25mm variety also does 2 damage, and fires once in 10 seconds. (...like, really?)
4) The Crusher Super Heavy Cannon fires 10 shots at 2 damage each in a rapid burst. It is magazine fed. Magazines in BT are called Cassettes. 1 unit of ammo = 1 cassette.
5) The Chemjet Gun, one of the largest AC/20s at 185mm that the IS has, fires 4 shots at 5 damage each in a 'slow burst'. It is magazine fed.
6) Autocannons are not limited to ranges of 270 to 660 but instead those are the maximum 'likely' ranges for the average 4/5 (4 gunnery, 5 piloting) pilot to achieve solid hits when countering against recoil against a stationary target. Note that a burst fire AC's main inhibitor is the massive amount of recoil.
7) The typical AC/2 range is 25mm to 90mm. (25 for the LBX-2 and UAC/2, 30 for the AC/2). I've never seen a 90mm AC/2 of any sort, but that's the official list. The typical AC/5 ranges from 40mm to 120mm from examples found. An 80mm typically requires 10 shots to make 5 damage. A 120mm requires 3 shots to make 5 damage. The AC/10 ranges from 80mm to 120mm based on examples found, and is simply described as firing much faster than an AC/5. The AC/20 ranges from 100 to 185mm for IS and at 100mm is typically "15-to-16" shots with 16 being consistent with damages. The 185mm I already described. The Ultra 20s go up to 203mm, which is the only debatable one shot in existence as far as concrete solid lore.

Tabletop cannot possibly account for the 60+ medium laser variants (44 of which are unique and these are exclusively standard IS medium lasers) much less the 24+ total variants of AC/20 in the 3050 timeline.

Anything else?
Oh right I almost forgot, there's an exception in the Victor's AC/20, which fires "100 shots" to get 20 damage.
Though said to be 100mm, I suspect this is a writer's error. The actual shot to damage count ratio is respectful of a 30mm AC/2 (10 shots to get 2 damage, 100 shots to get 20 damage).
It could also be 100mm in bore size but very short bullets instead of the typical sabot-style standardized HEAP rounds. This has never been made clear however. Still, I love the manual reload for a Victor's AC/20 and the primary and secondary feeding mechanisms. Would be really cinematic.

No you don't. Secret is kept in ammo.
IS got unitare ammo, which makes IS AC just a self loading smoothbored cannon, and Clans use compact reactive selfpropelled ammo which is more advanced than conventional unitare IS ammo.

And AC2 never be 100mm, lucky if it hits a Bofors SC 45-57mm.

So you know why IS U-AC5 shot only 2 or 3 rounds instead of continious fire? Simply cause it's a continious loading rotary semi-auto cannon. Which firstly loads all barrels in a rotating block, then fires just rotating block without loading just unloading it during fire, than load it again. Instead of this Clans use "clips"/cassets which drops/discharges when empty. Yap, AC5 is an 120mm smoothbored L50 or L52 cannon, but cause of unitare ammo it's loaded like a self loading version of Flk.88L52(KwK36L52). Recoil driven mechanism. Yap, the ROF of IS weapons will be twice lower than Clans AC's but shell is heavier, so do single damage of 2/5/10/20 per hit.
The U-AC10 and U-AC20 in Is will appear far later than in Clans, cause that would be a ClanTech.
Till that time IS will use conventional single hit semi-auto cannons.

ChemJets are only Clan weapons, so we not talking about then. Most IS AC at commom time scale works like Large Rifle except that they are smoothbored. Besides, both CL and IS AC20 are 185-203mm dipending on production company/supplier. Only LongTom and Sniper Artillery Piece are more than 230-280mm or even 300mm.

Flush Royal mate.

Edit: If AC20 IS or CL would have calliber like 40-50 or 70 it would be firing at 1,2-2km range. All AC20 to safely use them on a mech are cutted to 30+ cal. Otherwise weigh of AC20 would be around 30-50 tons.

Crusher Super Heavy Cannon not a mech used weapon due amount of a recoil during burst, it's mounted ONLY on Quickscell Hetzer Combat Vehicle, so stop speculating and telling people a pure bullcrap.

P.S. The LORE about AC's is:
- All IS AC's are semi-auto cannons.
- All Clans AC's are fullauto cannons.

With all their pros and cons.


AC2 - 45-57(57)mmL60+
AC5 - 90-105+(109)mmL50+
AC10 - 120-155(140)mmL40
AC20 - 185-203mmL30

I really hope that Koniving not gonna be elected cause tha guy will ruin both Clans and IS AC's to unplayable state.

Edited by EboneezeeR, 16 September 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[Yiazmat]

[Russ Bullock]

Enjoyed the OP's original post. Thanks for the light moment, we need more of those.

[Bullseye69]

Both the jagermech and the k2 can boat dual ac 20 or gauss how is the king crab any different than those mech it not.
Stop with the silliness till we get the mech on game and can try it.
Unless you have a time machine and went to the future and have first hand knowledge then you know what we know and that nothing. FYI if you do have a time machine get the lottery numbers would be a better use of it

If this was meant as a joke not funny we really don't want PGI to get confused about this at all.

If they did nerf the King Crab then they would have to nerf all mechs that can boat dual ac 20 or gauss such ad jagermech catapult k2 and the dashi just to name the 3 off the top of my head.

I am happy that we getting the King Crab it might suck it might not suck but I will be happy either way and as far as the broad back being lrm magnet it called Dual AMS plus module tweaks that do ams. Still would hurt but that the price you pay to run a big assault mech that is slow.

[theta123]

The diffrence between the Jager and K2 is that the kingcrab has tonnes of armour

But you dont have the mobility either.

[Davers]

I heard the King Crab will be able to walk sideways and be the only mech that can do 'strafe' movement (until they put 4 legged mechs in the game anyway)

[Viges]

Koniving, on 16 September 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

It will truly live up to its name as a Hangar Queen, because it will never be able to leave as a huge, walking sponge for LRMs, artillery, and any top-down weapons fire.

As a crab you need to go deeper...

Davers, on 16 September 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

I heard the King Crab will be able to walk sideways and be the only mech that can do 'strafe' movement (until they put 4 legged mechs in the game anyway)

King Crab will be able to walk sideways ONLY, so prepare to go full crab!

[LT. HARDCASE]

I wonder if a light will be able to jump on its back and shoot it to death. Picture the scene from Starship Troopers where Rico jumped on the big flamethrower bug and dropped the grenades into its carapace.

[BumbleBee]

The King Crab is ridiculously OP, and the only way to fix it is nerf the AC20 and the guass.

Range is WAY too high on the Dual Guass KC. Ive tried running to close the distance on Alpine in my LBX20/Small Laser Direwolf and it just killed me in 3 seconds. You just cant get close enough to hit it.

On River City I rounded a corner and the Dual AC20 setup hit me and my fresh Warhawk just sploded. THIS IS OUTRAGE!111!!!!!11!!!

Guass need Projectile Speed drop to 500M/s and 10sec cooldown.
AC20 needs moar Heat and burst fire with 1.5sec between the 7 shells.
This is only way to save game. KC is TOO strong.
RAGE QUIT if not DONE!!1!!

THIS IS DISGRACE1111!!!!!!11!!
NERPH NAOW!1!!111!!!!!1!!1

Edited by BumbleBee, 16 September 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[Johnny Z]

I think it wise to start a pre-emptive nerf topic now, better safe than sorry. Well said OP, I propose there be a commitee to address the Opness of said King Crab.

Had to add a smile since I realized to my horror that someone may take this seriously.

Edited by Johnny Z, 16 September 2014 - 02:54 PM.