356 replies to this topic

[WM Jeri]

MischiefSC, on 18 September 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

Unless you joined up front and paid extra for the chance - then, in order to make it profitable, the content has to be artificially restricted to prevent other people to get it and charged extra to the people who do buy it.

Call it what you want - the whole point of exclusivity is to ensure you get something that someone else doesn't. This isn't about limited production runs; this is digital content. There is no logical to restrict or limit it other than some people only paid money for it because they felt that by doing so they could keep many other people from also having it. Some of us did because we saw inherent value in the content; I don't care if everyone buys a Phoenix Overlord package. It's a good deal for the amount of content.

If someone only bought it because they felt that doing so made them special and that to protect that specialness they need to make sure other people do not have the option to spend the same money they did...

well, again. That's not a mindset I agree with. PGIs business decisions are their own but I absolutely vote for making content available to anyone who wants to pay for it.

And I believe your only as good as your word...I entered into a financial transaction with PGI based on certain terms which they set and I did not in terms of what was offered. I fufilled my end of the obligation and paid with the expecation they uphold thier end of the transaction. Its very simple. Thier failure to follow through would constitute false advertising.

I am little old school I guess, Grandfather said rich man poor man both come into this world and leave with one thing...thier name. The question he posed to me was how do you want to be remembered. While it may not bother you it does bother me. Words have meaning, they form the bond of societies contracts. IF PGI felt so damned bound with IGP around "contractural language" that they had to alienate parts of the playerbase even though the did not want to then they damn well better feel bound to me around "contractural language".

I purchased content advertised as exclusive if purchased within a defined time frame. I expect them to live up to that for the simple fact if they don't I have no reason to believe they will live up to anything else they offer in the future. There it is distilled to its most basic form and as long as one person who purchased the content they, "billed as exclusive" then they have a moral and legal obligation to live up to the terms of the sale regardless of a poll or community sentiment. So the question I would ask to PGI if they even are considering this is, how do you want to be remembered?

Again I am all for them making money lord knows I have spent a bunch here but they have options to continue to do so and still live up to the terms of the sale they made with me and others who are of like mind with me.

The key here is the purchasers did not set the terms of the sale, PGI did, and now I expect them to live up to those terms. Regardless of whether on not its logical again they set the conditions of the sale so lets just say we agree to disagree, however I think we can both agree that words and advertsing do have power.

Edited by WM Jeri, 18 September 2014 - 07:22 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Desolator, on 18 September 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

Except there isn't any join up front and pay extra, They offer a limited item/service and you either choose to get it or you don't.
There is no paying extra.

You are completely talking about something other than exclusivity. The way you are presenting your arguement means that the Phoenix pack was release for $120 and if you paid and extra $50 no one else would be able to get it.
This is not how this game has worked or will ever work.
What they are actually doing is: From Date to Date you have the option to buy this package for $80.
You the customer are chosing whether or not you will be a part of that club. No one else is making that choice for you.

So you are saying they should re-release the Founder's bundles as well right?

I mean, because that is an exclusive club that people paid extra for and all.
Oh wait that would mean you aren't really a founder, yet you want those perks anyway. Because you feel like you are entitled to it.

That cost of 'paying extra' is built into why it was the cost it was originally. Do you really think every exclusive package you've paid for wasn't priced higher to account for lower potential customers?

I've already got all the packages I want. I'd probably buy a package of founders mechs but I wouldn't say they're exceptional. More a collectionists thing.

I get how you're trying to justify why they shouldn't sell a digital product to anyone anymore because then you wouldn't be special for having bought it. That's fine. I'm just more honest about what we're talking about here.

There is no logical justification for not selling prior packages other than preserving a arbitrary sense of 'exclusivity'. If it is upsetting to people to think that just any old peasant can get the same mechs they bought then change the paint colors and bundle them differently and call it a '2nd wave IS reinforcement package' or whatever.

haven't asked for any founders perks. In fact I've said founders deserve more of them. Selling the mechs though isn't a bad idea.

I also like how you're trying to turn the whole entitlement thing around. Entitlement is the idea that you deserve something others paid for without paying for it. It also means believing you deserve something special that other people don't get the opportunity to get.

The whole issue is that I'm not a fan of entitlement attitudes. I pay for what I have and I'm quite content with that. The idea that because I bought something that nobody else gets to buy it because then 'we're just letting ANYONE into our Exclusive Club' is not something I believe in or respect.

The perks like paints, warhorns, bonus premium time, etc? Sure, keep that exclusive. Rewards for having bought in when PGI first offered them. It presents motivation for people to jump in on things sooner.

To say that once you've sold a mech for cash you can never sell it for cash again though? That's just absurd. Re-bundle the founds/phoenix mechs in new packages, let people who were not here and still want them chip in for them. They're going to pay the same money. They may not get the perks like patterns and paints that people got by being early adopters but that's a small but relevant reward for early adoption.

Protecting exclusive clubs to artificially inflate peoples egos because they spent money on something I can't get behind. We're not even taking about something someone EARNED. Suppose they have a special pattern you only get for, say, getting 12 kills in a match. Sure, keep that exclusive. That's an earned reward.

Pretending that having dropped $80 in a narrow timeframe makes someone special or deserving some particularly valuable recognition, that's just silly to me.

[Dymlos2003]

Guys you were too late to buy it that's on you not PGI. You just have to wait to buy the king crab when it comes out.

Edited by Dymlos2003, 18 September 2014 - 07:36 PM.

[ApolloKaras]

The problem with re introducing the Phoenix (even founders as mentioned in another thread), is that it will hurt PGI sales. Their marketing is fantastic. Any sales person will tell you that creating that urgency is essential to helping your bottom line. If you lose that urgency customers will not be so apt to pull the trigger, also giving them more time to back out. That's not what you want. You want to hook the buyer and get them to spend the money now.

[Russ Bullock]

I think I am going to need to make a fresh post on the subject and see if we focus it on a real solution.

[MischiefSC]

How about rebundling mechs with house-specific paint jobs?

Especially if you've got decals in the works.

The 30% bonus primary plus variants, house specific mech packs with house-specific paints.

[Bishop Steiner]

Russ Bullock, on 18 September 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

I think I am going to need to make a fresh post on the subject and see if we focus it on a real solution.

Yup.

Do think the consensus, overall, is NO to re-doing Founders, and hey, if you want to redo Phoenix, meh go for it. Or make some new "Supporters" packs, based off the Founders, sans the Founders specific perks. And of course, any pre-sale stuff.....

[WM Jeri]

Wow nice to see you on here this late Russ! Really do like the momentum and direction of things...even if I sound a little crusty at times

[ApolloKaras]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 September 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

Yup.

Do think the consensus, overall, is NO to re-doing Founders, and hey, if you want to redo Phoenix, meh go for it. Or make some new "Supporters" packs, based off the Founders, sans the Founders specific perks. And of course, any pre-sale stuff.....

Create a different pack entirely for the reasons I noted above.

If Phoenix is re-released, as a customer if I see another pack, I'll automatically think to myself "Is this truly something I have to buy now? Or can I just wait."

[Bishop Steiner]

Saxie, on 18 September 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

Create a different pack entirely for the reasons I noted above.

If Phoenix is re-released, as a customer if I see another pack, I'll automatically think to myself "Is this truly something I have to buy now? Or can I just wait."

Note the part of "sans all the presale perks".

[ApolloKaras]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 September 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

Note the part of "sans all the presale perks".

eh the paint and the cockpit items are of very little value. You get the pack because you want the mechs, Phoenix reminded you of when you played those mechs in TT. The centerpiece is the Mechs and the hero variants that came with it.

From a marketing stand point I have no reason why they would do it.


EDIT: The Premium time is about the only pre-order item that is valuable

Edited by Saxie, 18 September 2014 - 07:45 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Saxie, on 18 September 2014 - 07:44 PM, said:

eh the paint and the cockpit items are of very little value. You get the pack because you want the mechs, Phoenix reminded you of when you played those mechs in TT. The centerpiece is the Mechs and the hero variants that came with it.

From a marketing stand point I have no reason why they would do it.


EDIT: The Premium time is about the only pre-order item that is valuable

I got more use out of the unlocked colors in my Phoenix Overlord package than I did the mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 18 September 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

I got more use out of the unlocked colors in my Phoenix Overlord package than I did the mechs.

Thats cuz you never listened to me on how to Battlemaster.

[WM Jeri]

MischiefSC, on 18 September 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

How about rebundling mechs with house-specific paint jobs?

Especially if you've got decals in the works.

The 30% bonus primary plus variants, house specific mech packs with house-specific paints.

This I can deal with and can agree with.

[ApolloKaras]

MischiefSC, on 18 September 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

How about rebundling mechs with house-specific paint jobs?

Especially if you've got decals in the works.

The 30% bonus primary plus variants, house specific mech packs with house-specific paints.

I missed this.

I think this is the best route, without compromising past sales, and hurting your marketing going forward. You could even give a loyalty bonus to that specific faction.

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 September 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

Thats cuz you never listened to me on how to Battlemaster.

I did. It was still bad.

Saxie, on 18 September 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

I missed this.

I think this is the best route, without compromising past sales, and hurting your marketing going forward. You could even give a loyalty bonus to that specific faction.

I suggested this in the suggestions forums like several months ago.

Package up 4-6 IS mechs with variants. Give them all a basic house skin and the primary a special house decal/paint/whatever and 30% bonus.

Also... house specific decals. 3 or 4 for each house that denote rank. Means nothing in pugs but in CW it'll be awesome to see who has what rank by mech decals, etc.

There's a lot of cool stuff you can do with that.

You can release all the Phoenix mechs, you just don't call it the phoenix pack or have the same alternate rewards. Same with the founders mechs. Reskin them, change up the paint, call them House Commander mechs and give them house-specific colors.

[Russ Bullock]

Going to lock this down now and direct you to here

http://mwomercs.com/...ix-or-founders/

I think I have gathered enough information from the opinions of existing Founders and Phoenix owners.