88 replies to this topic

[Aleric]

The reasons I play maybe once a week if that:

Maps are too restrictive, and in some cases way too small. Who drops mechs less than a mile away from each other which gives you ZERO time to prepare before taking fire form the other team. Before the gripes start give players the option to go into matches with smaller or larger scale maps.

Campaigns, still waiting on the ability to do missions and fight to take over a PLANET.

Dropships, I would rather start from the dropship and free fall to the rally point than just have the mech do a lurch.

Structure, there is no structure, Houses to fight for, House perks, House enemies to go against as well as the Clans. All we have now is a tag.

My biggest complaint is that the mech chassis, not the clan mechs, all look like they where built by the same company. The inability to color them differently without spending a LOT of money is a MAJOR drawback.

[Hoax415]

#1 Poor new player experience. This includes all the hidden information like ghost heat and quirks and what mechs can use ecm. This includes the fact new players can't play with a friend to coach them without being thrown into the shark tank that group queue. Cadet bonus dies too soon and new players aren't even told they are being given a cadet bonus and its counting down. Etc. Etc.

#2 Too many punishment game systems that exist solely to try to drive sales but actively cause damage to the fun of playing the game:
-Modules that cost a fortune have to be moved from mech to mech with no good system to even locate them for the guys with 50+ mechs.
-The 3 variants to level a mech. This is also a horrible horrible system for new players. They want to level up but they wan't to try new robots and you punish them by not letting them do both at the same time.
-You can't use lobby system without a second premium time user on the other team. That's garbage.

If the improvement to player QoL is obvious but you are hesitating because it reduces a grind that might net you some premium time sales.... STOP THAT. Happy players spend money. Players who feel like the game is out to fleece them don't and often they quit.

#3 TTK. This is a hurtbox problem. A convergence problem. A zero cone of fire problem (CS -the ultimate FPS for how long?- has CoF ffs) and a weapon hardpoint problem because if someone can mount AC40 or dual gauss or 2PPC+AC10 then everyone has to in this environment or be left behind. This is also very much a pure vertical power level weapon module problem. We're worried about TTK but here have these zero drawback level5 weapon upgrades. Another example of saying one thing while doing the complete opposite.

#4 Heat. The heat scale sucks. It enables the kinds of builds that people don't like it enables the gameplay that has demolished TTK. More heatsinks = a bigger scale is horrible bad and does bad things to gameplay. Where are the movement speed penalties for high heat? Where are the accuracy penalties? Those are systems that might shift the meta away from 50% heat alphas if we were willing to work on them. Pilot damage, ammo cooking off. Instead of ghost heat what if huge surges in heat all at once just damaged/destroyed your heatsinks? Use the TT. Use MWO specific systems but do something. The heat scale is there to be a check on the things PGI and the players agree are bad for the game but I haven't seen heat used to do anything positive since the failfest that was ghost heat. Look up threads from that time, there are tons of great ideas.

#5 Movement. I'm sick of being stuck on pebbles. I can't even look down and see them. Good rule of thumb, if I can't even see something if I am looking down at the ground and its stopping my movement dead that is poor. Fix that. Being unable to step over a pipe that isn't higher than the ankle of my BIPEDAL WAR MACHINE. I'm tired of watching mechs struggle up inclines. Of playing Mountain Climber Simulator 2014. You wanna know what is the first thing many new players will be shocked and disgusted by if they aren't getting 1-shot? That their robot feels like it is supposed to go places but can't quite go places. Jump jets being unfun is probably pretty dumb too. Make piloting a mech "Feel" better. Invisible walls would feel less jarring and confusing than our current combination of incline mechanics and map design.

Edited by Hoax415, 16 September 2014 - 12:47 PM.

[EboneezeeR]

Joseph Mallan, on 16 September 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

Inner Sphere v Clan Weapon balance.
I think Clans are to weak, most feel the Opposite. Either way, this is core to the game being successful.

This is the core where game'll be ruined.

[Hoax415]

Clan vs IS in CW is going to be not very fun for everyone involved. Clanners have to bring 12 which can't sit right with anyone who cares about anything beyond winning. That and they have very limited "good" mech variety.

Compare The Stormcrow for Clans versus SHD, GRF and maybe KTO and WVR for IS mediums.

Compare THE MAD CAT versus CTF, JM6 and maybe someone might try the ON1.

Compare the DWF versus Atlas-DDC, STK, DragonSlayer and maybe a few BNC or BLR.

As for IS...

3 Mad Cats + 3 Daishis + 3 Stormcrows every single match. That's going to get old quick but if I was a clanner I would be outraged if anyone brought some other mech because CW is about crushing opposing factions and those mechs are too good to not use.

Yes even after the five new mechs. I've gone over them in detail they won't come close to being alternatives to the power three except the occasional Loki to provide ECM so that Kit Foxes can be swapped out for other lights.

Endo is just too good without any kind of R&R or logistical drawback.

Edited by Hoax415, 16 September 2014 - 01:21 PM.

[TopDawg]

Luminarium, on 16 September 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

Cone of fire mechanic could be a fix in MWO. It wouldn't even have to bloom out, they could make it so the more weapons you fire at the same time, the higher the "cone of fire" gets or give it a random number generator that doesn't always hit in the same spot. Not necessarily missing the target, but at least spreading the shot over a larger area, they could make that apply to certain weapons like PPC / Gauss.

That way if you fire 4 ppc at the same time, 2 would hit CT, 1 would hit an arm, 1 would hit a leg. Combined that with a huge heat spike, you no longer have an instant kill scenario. Similarly with gauss, 1 would hit CT the other one would hit LT / RT. You still do 30 dmg just not in the same tiny area.

I completely agree that the alpha (not inherently pinpoint damage) was(/is?) absolutely a problem, but I'm not sure a COF is the right way to go about it for this game. I think discouraging it/outright preventing it is a better way, likely through heat management (in lieu of sized hardpoints, which I still think would be the best way to balance and bring roles/character to individual Mechs - which is undoubtedly going to be really hard to retroactively implement such a system now).

Another post suggested perhaps raising the heat from movement (which I am not opposed to - and back in CB managing heat was an important aspect of being proficient at the game), and perhaps even instituting damage to Mech/components if exceeding certain heat percentages (starting lower than just 100). It's a bit of a fine line to walk (although most balancing is) because if people can overheat and shut down, but one or two shot in the process (without too much peril to themselves), they're going to do it anyway. But I digress and this is slightly off topic for this thread :Þ.

[Zyllos]

DocBach, on 16 September 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

the pilot trees suck. I hate having to own three of the same mech and level the exact same skills for them.

I think that is because we don't have a "skill tree" at all. Instead we just have a pool of XP to grind. What is needed instead is a limited pool of XP that is gained that you can purchase skills for a particular mech. So you learn a skill then you fit it into your pool. Each skill has tiers that is bought, that provides a higher value, but costs more for the pool.

Then, since there is a limited pool that you have available for a chassis, you pick pilot skills to apply to that chassis.

So, you could have "Cool Run T5", which is pretty simple skill to learn (Basic) but requires high pool cost. But if your a ballistic mech, it might be better to save points and instead take "Arm Reflex T5" and "Twist Speed T5" in it's place.

You will still want to Elite and Master a mech as it should maybe open up the higher tier pilot skills for purchase.

[Hoax415]

Oh 3/3/3/3 weight class only team balance is pretty much garbage too. Its inflexible and limits team composition options and renders too many chassis that are not 35/55/75/100 tons second class.

Its not as important as the basic gameplay distorting problems but it does suck a lot.

[Thorn Hallis]

Well, PGI thinks MWO allready has Role and Information Warfare. I guess they'll have a hard time to find a player that would agree with them. I for one wouldn't agree on that, so thats my issue with MWO.

[Dark Jackal]

I have my own things that may or may not exactly sync with what everyone else has. So here are my top 10 crab split in two sections:

Game Based:

1) Better balancing mechanism than Ghost Heat
2) Lack of Weapon Variety
2) ECM <Cloak of Wretchedness and Despair>
4) Too Much Engine/Armor Customization (Probably Unchangeable)
5) Maps, some buggy, mainly because a lack of new ones after two years

Other:

1) Variant Saving System that works
2) Better Special Pre-Purchase Deals to Bundle packages on the Store Page
3) Better Store Page look and feel, too little look and feel of it
4) A Sub Option with a bonus of 500 MC points / month
5) Feedback/Survey in-game client functionality

[Apnu]

Great data guys, keep it coming I'm starting to get a good list. I'd like to hear more from the community before I put a poll together.

I'm thinking of using the poll system here in MWO, but also surveymonkey.com. Maybe both and compare the results. I'm sure there are a few players, ex-players, and potential players who are avoiding these forums.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

My top five issues that I'd like to see addressed in MWO:

• Stay with a 30 Heat Scale with reduced Heat Sink Capacity to 0.1 for SHS and DHS.
  
  
  Spoiler

  So that 10 SHS or DHS only raises Capacity a combined 1. This would allow the original scale to be implemented with heat penalties starting with an avoidable shutdown at 14.
  (follow by adding heat penalties, with tweaks to heat, heat scale penalties and heat dissipation, including external DHS, also like the idea of exponential decay for dissipation and heat)
  
  
  

  ---

  
  
• Lock On Independence from ECM (followed by tweaks to ECM, LRMs, SSRMs and looking to make SRMs actual missiles!)
  
  Follow-up Tweaks after Locking change:
  Spoiler

  With LRMs, I'd look to bring the missile count from 180 back to 120 (and make them 1 damage per missile), then at least bring the cooldown on all of them (from 5 to 20) to 6.67.
  
  Next, I'd apply a modified SSRM 'bone' Targeting system to how they hit so that the spread is more efficient and CT coring is reduced.
  
  Then increase missile speed. After that if they are 'under' powered, then I'd see about testing a fire, lock, and forget style for LRMs.
  
  With SRMs, I'd apple the SSRM 'bone' Targeting system, but like LRMs allow them to fire without a lock. Then boost missile count to 120 missiles to help lights and mediums.
  
  Plus we need this to happen too
  
  

  ---

  
  
• Continue Hit Box tweaks
  
  (continue the tweaks, it was going well until it was stopped)
  

  ---

  
  
• Convert all Mech Tree efficiencies into unlock-able Modules and adjust values.
  
  
  
  Spoiler

  This way we can keep what has been worked on (Grinded) in the current 'Skills' Tab, but we would need to choose between them to see what will be improved on the mech. By having to make such choices on what will be used in a match, the devs can still add more quirks and continue adding to that particular system.
  
  

  ---

  
  
• Increase the number of Modules (and add a new system, details here) to have another method to dynamically customize our mechs. And also allow certain Equipment to increase the available slots to mount Modules.
  
  
  Spoiler

  I'd continue adding new 'modules' such as, Counter Battery, Radar Decoy and so on, and convert some existing gear to the module system, such as needing to slot Night Vision and Thermal Vision. (I'd also make TAG have it's own unique Hardpoint, like AMS and ECM, so that it doesn't occupy an Energy Slot.)
  
  This way, different modules will be set in different categories and would be restricted to particular slots from different pieces of equipment.
  
  Want to have a global impact, mount TAG or Command Console to mount a Counter Battery module to increase strike cooldown. Want to call artillery mount TAG or Command Console.
  
  Want to trick the enemy with a false radar blimp mount ECM for the Radar Decoy.
  
  Want to use a UAV, mount BAP to be able to slot it for a match and to be able to use the module to modify the UAV. Want to use Seismic, mount BAP.
  
  Want to build an agile brawler, then utilize the newly converted Mech Tree Efficiencies boost your mech over increasing Radar Range, mounting a Vision module or a sensor.
  
  With enough affordable choices, we can then build better dynamic Roles, with further adjustments to default values, and how much the default values get boosted by the choices made with modules.
  
  With synergies from more Mech Quirks and we could see something like the SDR-5V currently being useless, to being invaluable for Recon-based quirks that could increase sensor range so that it can spot at extended ranges.
  
  Or have a Jenner remain the ultimate Speedy Striker, but weak as a spotter and so on.
  
  Here was a mock-up I made recently, so it still needs plenty of refinement, but is more or less what we could see in the future with the idea I'm trying to describe in #5.
  

  Spoiler

  

Edit: Formatting! And Idea tweak

Edited by Praetor Knight, 16 September 2014 - 05:02 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Malleus011, on 16 September 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

The issues, IMHO.


Major Issues:

• Ghost Heat: A widely hated solution to the boating of PP FLD weapons. It partially fixed the problem, but really pushed players to other combinations to do the same thing. A complex issue which will likely require a comprehensive solution.
  
• Low Time-to-Kill: Nearly unlimited customization of IS 'mechs and PP FLD weapons have created very low time-to-kill in most matches. This is very discouraging for new players and doesn't fit the desired 'feel' of giant robot battlefield combat.
  
• Weak Jump Jets: 'Pop-tarting' - using JJ's to perform a low jump and firing at the apex with PP FLD weapons provoked the change that severely under-powered Jump Jets. Current JJ's are far, far short of Canon jump distances and are really only useful for climbing hills and low obstacles. Restoring JJ's to full tactical mobility while not reintroducing pop-tart sniping would be desirable.
  
• ECM: This 1.5 ton module is quite powerful for its weight, and a 'no brainer' to always take when possible. Though not as important in elite team play, lack of ECM in the general que can be a serious issue. Extremely confusing for new players.
  
• Lack of Community Warfare: a reason to keep playing.
  
• Lack of Role Warfare: all 'mechs are essentially combat 'mechs. There is minimal scouting, skirmishing, or other tasks to complete in matches.
  
• Lack of Game Modes/Mission types: We effectively have three flavors of Deathmatch.
  
• Lack of Maps: We have a very small number of maps, many plagued with errors like invisible walls and movement blockers.

Minor Issues:

• Gauss Charge: Nerfed because the combination circumvented Ghost Heat and was extremely powerful. Seriously penalizes 'mechs which rely on a single Gauss. While many players adapted to the charge mechanic, a significant portion of the player base simply abandoned the Gauss rifle entirely. Gauss boating become a problem with Clans and led to a limit of two GR's charging at once. The charge is not canon and faintly ridiculous to 'charge' a weapon which explodes when critted because it is holding a charge ...
  
• PPC speed nerf: Again, imposed because of PP FLD optimization. Seriously penalizes 'mechs which rely on a single PPC.
  
• Victor and Highlander agility nerfs: Imposed due to pop tart meta, now merely makes the chassis sluggish. A minor issue, but should be reverted or at the very least cut in half.
  
• LRMs: MWO struggles with LRM implementation, because general que LRM boating can be extremely effective. Inexperienced players have difficulty coping with the indirect fire mechanic, while elite players rarely bother with such a 'weak' weapons system.
  
• Obsolete Skill system: Many of the Elite skills don't even work. Ideally, this should be reworked with mutually exclusive trees and smaller, more numerous benefits.
  
• The Grind: Buying three chassis of a single type to allow mastery creates a long, expensive grind. Removing the 'three chassis' requirement would make the game more friendly to new players.
  
• High Prices: Many players feel that the prices of Hero 'mechs and cosmetic items such as paints and patterns are too high, and that there are no true 'micro-transaction' options.

Personal Gripes:

• I don't like the modules system; it isn't canon. Why can't we have manufacturer quirks for various parts and pilot/technician skills instead?
  
• Lack of soul/character: The game treats itself like a game. I don't feel like a mechwarrior dropping into missions, I feel like a gamer loading up a deathmatch.
  
• Lack of insignia and canon skins: Why can't I paint and mark my 'mech properly? I'm part of the 10th Skye Rangers, AFFC, but there's no Skye Rangers skin, no LCAF or AFFC insignia, no Ranger's badge ...
  
• No Urbanmech!

And the single biggest issue which MWO struggles with:

• Pinpoint accuracy and front-loaded damage: As can be seen by the above topics, PP FLD has driven many of the nerfs in the game. There have been dozens of good suggestions for alternatives - reticle sway, cone-of-fire, convergence, etc. Many of which could work; but which one? And how to win over the die-hard players who like PP FLD gameplay? This is probably the single biggest root cause of MWO's balance troubles. Fixing THIS issue could easily allow the REMOVAL of most of the above list.

YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Malleus011]

Heh. Nice response, Krafty.

Also, Russ has mentioned that this isn't their focus right now, but the new player experience is very harsh. We need a good tutorial system, better training, and quite possibly some 'new pilot' mechs that are easy for new guys to learn (but soon replaced by better, but harder to use machines.)

[Morashtak]

The lack of a pilot - Instead we have an interchangeable "Cog, No.1, BattleMech" that is equally adapt at any Mech you dump him into (all other areas being equal, of course).

If PGI had focused on the Player as a Pilot with Piloting, Gunnery, and Technician trees then Convergence, Center of Gravity, a large number of modules, ECM, and weapon balance would have pivoted off of the trees and the talents therein.

One-Size-Up/One-Size-Down weapon customization, reduced armor and engine rating exchanges, and an Energy mechanic instead of a heat scale would have kept that abomination of a 9-PPC Direwolf from ever making an appearance.

As well as pretty much everything else posted throughout the thread.

[CocoaJin]

*Lack of role warfare

*Minimum viability of light mechs, in part, due to not being able to really fulfill periphery tasks as a primary function toward a task oriented contribution to combat success. Forward Recon(not just running point like we do know), interdiction and soft target engagement.

*Bigger maps

*Pin-point damage(cross-hair bloom and limited convergence for weapons mounted on different body parts)

*Ghost Heat is too excessive

Not listed in any order of preference.

[hutzlibu]

• add 12 vs 10
  
• Server Browser

• remove Ghost Heat
  
• new Maps

[Apnu]

Bump for the night time crowd.

[Malleus011]

Bump to keep it on the front page.

[Pyrrho]

Malleus011, on 16 September 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

Heh. Nice response, Krafty.

Also, Russ has mentioned that this isn't their focus right now, but the new player experience is very harsh. We need a good tutorial system, better training, and quite possibly some 'new pilot' mechs that are easy for new guys to learn (but soon replaced by better, but harder to use machines.)

Luckily, sometimes the community can do things without needing PGI to take action:

https://www.youtube.com/user/Kanajashi

Behold! Some tutorials!

[Empyrus]

The game doesn't allow heat-neutral builds, nor do those who prefer mobile warfare have any niche. The ranges are so long that outmaneuvering others is not really possible, some niche cases aside.
I would like the engagement distances to be shorter, and generally combat should be moving (ie people circle around each other, run forward and backwards, and so on, less static sniping and boating weapons).