14 replies to this topic

[UrsusMorologus]

Is the HBK-4P viable as an alternative to typical Nova builds

Hunch 4P w/ XL275
50 Tons
Max Armor: 338
Top Speed: 89.1 kph (base)
Torso Rot: 125 deg
Jump Jets: No
E Weapons: 9
Stock Alpha: 43
Stock DPS: 2.86
Stock Cooling: 26%

Nova-Prime w/ XL250
50 Tons
Max Armor: 338
Top Speed: 81 kph (base)
Torso Rot: 100 deg
Jump Jets: Yes
E Weapons: 12
Stock Alpha: 84
Stock DPS: 3.36
Stock Cooling: 17%

Hunchie is potentially faster and can fire longer before shutting down, but Nova has more mobility and greater initial firepower. My feeling is that the Nova can try for knock-out blow and JJ-escape if it goes poorly, while Hunchie has to try to stay out of the cross-hairs and win attrition fight. Favor to the Nova I think since JJ means it doesnt have to stay around.

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 16 September 2014 - 08:22 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Hunchie is better suited for hit and run attacks. While the Nova is not good at them.

All your main weapons are in that one hunch, meaning you don't need to expose that much of your mech to deliver your full firepower. Shorter burn times mean that you can deliver the full punch on the run, quickly, before ducking back to cover.

The nova can have as many weapons in one arm as you do in your hunch, but the hunch is higher up, and the MLs are faster, and colder than ERMLs. Add to it that the Nova has hardwired JJs that it can't get rid of.

In a stare down contest, or a long range fight, the Nova wins. In a short range hit and run fight, the Hunchie has a solid chance of winning.


That actually applies to all clan and IS mechs.

[Phobic Wraith]

Good points, but after running both, I have to say that while the clan ERmediums do way more overall damage, the longer beam duration practically neuters hit-n-run moves. And NEVER run and XL engine in a Hunchback. The standard 275 fits just fine. Unless you're crazy like me and troll in this...

HBK-4P - Murderback.

Occasionally I switch out the arm pulses for standard mediums and throw in two more heatsinks. Because sometimes you just need to fire twice.

The Nova works, it really does. The problem with it is that people try to play it just like the interplanetary ninja assasin Hunchtrap-4P. It is not. The Nova works better as a skirmisher and chain-firing distance brawler... Kinda like a medium laser-Jager.

Use the 4P like ghost heat ain't no thang. Fire all of 'em and run. Or on cold maps, fire all of 'em and fire all of 'em again and run. The 4P shines when alpha striking in spite of ghost heat.

Edited by Phobic Wraith, 16 September 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[Voivode]

I'd call this a wash. Both mechs have ups and downs so you just have to play to the strengths of the build, compensate for the weaknesses. Both are definitely going to play a hit and retreat role with all those energy weapons. Here's how I see it.

HUNCHIE ADVANTAGES:
Heat. IS standard lasers produce less heat per weapon, and when you boat lasers, that adds up quickly. That gives the Hunchie a tremendous advantage over the Nova in terms of heat efficiency.

Placement. The hunch puts the weapons higher, requiring less exposure, though the Nova does have JJ that can somewhat compensate, though the JJ further lower heat efficiency while in use.

HUNCHIE DISADVANTAGES:
The hunch. Oh god, the hunch. So many weapons lost when that thing blows. The arm next to it goes with it, causing further weapon loss. Once that hunch goes, you have less firepower than a Jenner (unless you build with losing the hunch in mind, such as placing a PPC / LL / LPL in the opposite arm)

NOVA ADVANTAGES:
Range. Those lasers have the letters "E" and "R" in front of them for a reason.
Damage and weight. Clan tech, makes a difference.
Distribution. The hunchie can lose almost all it's weapons with the loss of a shoulder. The nova will only lose half.

Jump jets. Always an advantage.

NOVA DISADVANTAGES:
Heat was already covered.

Placement. Those low slung arms mean you'll shoot the terrain more often.
Clan XL. Maybe that last stand with a medium laser in the head doesn't amount to much, but wouldn't you rather have that chance to do something than not?

[Haydin]

As others have said, you do NOT want an XL in your hunchie. I personally run a STD 260 6ML/3MPL build with my 4P. The MPLs as backup give some nice (almost) pinpoint damage that's great against lights, and 6ML will give you a TON of burst damage.

As far as brawler laserboating goes, I personally prefer the hunchback to the nova. Jump jets and range are great, but the low slung hardpoints force the mech to get pretty exposed. Even with the giant "HIT ME" shoulder of the hunchback, you can still peek around with a high-mounted clump of lasers to do a quick burst from a shot or two and get out. The shorter IS beam duration help with this too. The nova has to get out considerably farther, and that can be the time someone needs to charge up that double gauss and nail you. No JJ hurts its mobility for sure, but the hunchback has SUCH a good torso twist that it helps make up for it - the thing can damn near fire directly behind it.

If you are looking to mix in large lasers or a ppc for some long range punching power, I'd probably go with the nova. Jump jets, clan range, XL engines, and smaller DHS are super nice for getting some longer range pot shots in, and a hunchback is SCREWED if it keeps popping up at long range. Someone is going to laser/gauss/ppc your hunch off, and then you'll be really sad. The nova is far from an ideal sniper, but does skirmish from medium-long range far better than the hunchback.

Edited by Haydin, 16 September 2014 - 10:48 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Don't forget the nova is way bigger and can gets it arms shot off with most alphas other mechs can deliver.

If you use a hunchback or the pulse hunchback version, before the nova can see you around the corner, you can shoot the arm on that side off already.
And hunchback can torsotwist easier.

Nova cna additionaly mount 4 MG's which in some situations can be quite a killer.

I wonder a lot miore how a a 6 ML circada at 150kph vs a Nova turns out. I guess circada would win this fight

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Yeah, I would count the amazing torso twist as a strong point in favor of the HBK. Novas that mount the six-energy arms lose a lot of their arm mobility in the process, and if you toss in the ballistic side torsos you lose a chunk of torso twist too.

Mostly, they're shaped very differently and the hardpoint locations are different, which lends to a very different experience. If your goal is to peek around things to shoot and have jump jets to cross holes/cliffs, the Nova tends to be better for that. If your goal is to peek over cover or shoot and then twist away to soak damage with your left shoulder so people waste time blowing away nonvital bits, the Hunchie is better.

It's also important to keep in mind that those energy arms are a huge portion of the Nova's shape much like the hunch is for the HBK- a quick-thinking pilot can quickly disarm (what I did there) you without too much effort in either 'mech. The Nova's CT is a little easier to blow out too.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Id take the hunchy any day,much better brawler

[_____]

Thought I'd post this, just recorded yesterday.



Piloted properly though, a Nova should take out a 4P. In that match the initial 30 damage to the CT probably made the difference. The 4P has to sneak up, hit and fade to cool. And never take an XL on a non-4SP Hunchback.

Edited by BlackhawkSC, 20 September 2014 - 05:57 PM.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Blackjack-1X obliterates both for hit and run. It has a far superior top speed of 116 (tweaked). Better weapon mounts. Better hitboxes. The only thing it lacks is good torso twist.

[n r g]

UrsusMorologus, on 16 September 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

Is the HBK-4P viable as an alternative to typical Nova builds

Hunch 4P w/ XL275
50 Tons
Max Armor: 338
Top Speed: 89.1 kph (base)
Torso Rot: 125 deg
Jump Jets: No
E Weapons: 9
Stock Alpha: 43
Stock DPS: 2.86
Stock Cooling: 26%

Nova-Prime w/ XL250
50 Tons
Max Armor: 338
Top Speed: 81 kph (base)
Torso Rot: 100 deg
Jump Jets: Yes
E Weapons: 12
Stock Alpha: 84
Stock DPS: 3.36
Stock Cooling: 17%

Hunchie is potentially faster and can fire longer before shutting down, but Nova has more mobility and greater initial firepower. My feeling is that the Nova can try for knock-out blow and JJ-escape if it goes poorly, while Hunchie has to try to stay out of the cross-hairs and win attrition fight. Favor to the Nova I think since JJ means it doesnt have to stay around.

no.

[ApolloKaras]

E N E R G Y, on 20 September 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

no.

such insight


I think he's saying no XL in a hunchback

[Fire and Salt]

Hunchie has the advantage of high mounted weapons.
But it has a bunch of disadvantages including that giant hunch that it has....



Stats seem to indicate that the hunchback is one of the worst mechs.
I like the hunchback, especially the 4P. but I tend to agree with the stats. It is too slow and squishy to really be a 'good' mech.

Nova is slow too, but it can jump, atleast.

[Red Scorpion]

Hunch Snipers:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...113e25507f636e4
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...665d85681e5e3a5
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...75ff42de56abd54

Hunchbacks can snipe too, and without the low slung arms issue. Sure not a powerful alpha, but we all agree in dire-wolf-online we rather not expose 50% of our mech to return fire able to remove any medium in .8 seconds. Much less get the whole 1 second burn of a clan medium laser.

[NUJRSYDEVIL]

Very happy with my Nova, a modified prime with 5 ERML & 5 ERSL.

The stock prime is deadly but overheats easily as you can imagine.

Extremely mobile mech, love it.