56 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Dread Naught, on 16 September 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

If you want accurate results, then you have to give an incentive to play well. In this case, IS players have every incentive not to play well......clan nerfs. What could possibly be more rewarding?

Conversely, Clanners also have big incentive not to play well to avoid Clan nerfs.

Edited by El Bandito, 16 September 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[K0M3D14N]

The big issue:

IS pilots are trying to wage war with Clan mechs like they're fighting IS mechs. The Clanners have superior firepower at range, but run hotter and tend to spread their damage more in tight. IS mechs typically have better torso twist and much more rapid, frontloaded burst damage. Yet people insist on trying to do the "PEEK AND SHOOT PEEK AND SHOOT" thing instead of trying to force the Clanners into a disadvantageous position.

[Moonlander]

Hoax415, on 16 September 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

-Challenge Weekend. Wins are all that count towards challenge.
-Group Queue only, minimum group size of 4, no maximum.
-Your group must be all IS or all Clan obviously.

Really good idea. Need people who legitimately want to better the game and not just fanboy the factions and throw games. Out of 6 batches, went 3-3... only 1 was a complete stomp (in the Clan favor) but that was mostly because our group spread too thin in Alpine and they just picked people 1 by one.

K0M3D14N, on 16 September 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

The big issue:

IS pilots are trying to wage war with Clan mechs like they're fighting IS mechs. The Clanners have superior firepower at range, but run hotter and tend to spread their damage more in tight. IS mechs typically have better torso twist and much more rapid, frontloaded burst damage. Yet people insist on trying to do the "PEEK AND SHOOT PEEK AND SHOOT" thing instead of trying to force the Clanners into a disadvantageous position.

Before you can defeat the enemy, you must understand the enemy. I've went toe to toe with many Direwhale's in my Atlas and have had 0 issues. I just rush, and keep moving around them the entire time while torso twisting the incoming dmg. I can usually solo one with enough armor to continue to battle with others.

Edited by Moon the Turd, 16 September 2014 - 05:52 PM.

[Sorbic]

Dread Naught, on 16 September 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

I am not seeing this Russ. I'll paste here what I posted in another thread:

I think, sadly, that the only way to win, is not to play.

Let me quantify this. IS players have nothing to lose, and everything to gain, by not putting up a fight. In the last match I played, I saw a Banshee on river city, wade out into the middle of my entire teams fire. He was rotating and spreading damage, but he did not once return fire. Of course this followed up by their teams raven that ran right into the middle our group and shut down while we nuked him.

If you want accurate results, then you have to give an incentive to play well. In this case, IS players have every incentive not to play well......clan nerfs. What could possibly be more rewarding?

I'm not saying all IS players would do this, but even the good IS players have to admit that there are those amongst the IS ranks that have and will.

Sadly, for me, the choice is clear. Don't play in these silly challenges. It's the only way to win.

EDIT: Suggestion so I don't come off as just bitter. How about giving a real incentive to these balance tests. Why not give IS players a free King Crab, and clan players a free vulture or loki for showing up to these tests and giving it their all. Say, 30 matches per player over the course of a weekend, win or lose. That would give some incentive to get people playing in top form and possibly give some really solid data. Maybe a pipe dream I know, but just thought I'd toss that out there.

Same exact thing can, and has, been claimed of Clanners.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Clan vs IS should go for at least an entire day, imo. You need more data than a couple hours can provide, otherwise illusory correlation can sneak into the interpretation of said data.

Edited by Kevjack, 16 September 2014 - 07:29 PM.

[D R E A D N A U G H T]

BigFatGator, on 16 September 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

F you. Every IS team I've been with has fought hard. One fought stupid which is par for the course in a pug match, the rest fought hard and mostly well. I went all out because this is the first set of matches that seemed like it mattered. Was disappointed to see mixed teams again in a match on my last drop.

Don't you dare hide behind the 'IS teams throw matches' BS. Clan teams have every incentive to do the same, and I give all the shutdown novas that I cored benefit of the doubt that they just don't handle the heat when being hit with dual AC10 and panic... vs. figuring if they alpha and shut down from heat maybe PGI will ease up on the clan ERMLs.

Wow man! Just wow. Apparently I must have hit close to the mark to get you all riled up like that. Here, is this better?.....And let it be known from this day forth that also I would like to add that clan players are capable of doing the same and throwing matches.

How dare I? Yes, I dare, because it happened in a match I was in you moron. Yes, an incentive to play in an organized match where there is something tangible at stake would, in my opinion, provide better data.

[Hillslam]

Clanners were sandbagging to avoid nerfs. Because it happened in a match I was in. As clan.

Now - put this in the GROUP queue and that will change EVERYTHING

*rollseyes*

Edited by Hillslam, 16 September 2014 - 08:43 PM.

[Eboli]

All good to read the above comments.
Although maybe not relevant now the one thing I have some concerns over is how IS vs Clans going to go once Clan Wave 2 hits?

The next Clan wave are going to have much faster moving lights and mediums which at the moment IS have distinctive speed/tactical advantages, especially in the light range. Put a good light pilot in a fast moving Clan light mech though and the balance on the battlefield may change to Clans advantage.

I haven't really looked at the potential hardpoints of the new Clan light and medium mechs (apart from knowing they are going to be much faster) but this is a factor not to be taken lightly.

Time will tell of course but this is the area I am particularly concerned/curious about.

Cheers!
Eboli

[MoonfireSpam]

Just splooshed thinking about anything approximating an Ember, Spider or Jenner but with clan weapons.

[Ultimax]

Lefty Lucy, on 16 September 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

Obviously I didn't carry hard enough

I'm not sure if that screenshot says much.

Winning team had 7 players scoring less than 200 damage.

12-7 is hardly a stomp.

Ultimately their DW carried massively harder than you did in your Shadowhawk, which is normal all things consdiered.

He did 1300+ damage and EIGHT kills.

[Davegt27]

Another great IS VS Clan test as soon as I saw this thread I jumped right in

So I played 9 matches before it ended three where IS vs IS
Two IS wins the rest we lost
The IS lights and mediums seem to do well not in fire power but there greater mobility really helped
My heavy went down in seconds and I needed a load-out change to even make an impact on the
battlefield

I saw go and bad on both sides
We tried to push a toe to toe battle on alpine instead of trying to flank

I was shocked to see some posts of people crying in there corn flakes oh well

Maybe be an incentive would work but I don't want a King Crab Mech that thing walks sideways

[Wolfways]

Only had two clan v IS matches so far One win each.

I did have a mixed match where someone was screaming about my "stupid OP clan mech" and my "wussy clan streak-6". I was in a Griffin with two SRM6

[Goose]

Cap win on Crimson Conquest.

That's all she wrote for the 'Sphere tonight …

[Lefty Lucy]

Kevjack, on 16 September 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

Clan vs IS should go for at least an entire day, imo. You need more data than a couple hours can provide, otherwise illusory correlation can sneak into the interpretation of said data.

You're overestimating the amount of data needed for good statistical analysis, and underestimating the amount of data they get in a few hours.

Ultimatum X, on 16 September 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

I'm not sure if that screenshot says much. Winning team had 7 players scoring less than 200 damage. 12-7 is hardly a stomp. Ultimately their DW carried massively harder than you did in your Shadowhawk, which is normal all things consdiered. He did 1300+ damage and EIGHT kills.

I wasn't really trying to "say" anything with it. I was just showing off my own good performance more than anything. A single screen shot never "says" anything.

[Ph30nix]

Lefty Lucy, on 16 September 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

Obviously I didn't carry hard enough

hmm and that looks like it was an insanely close match.....

oh and

GOD DAMN IT PGI STOP HAVING THESE DURING THE DAY WHILE IM AT WORK TRY DOING THESE IN THE AFTERNOON ONCE IN AWHILE FOR F'S SAKE!!!!

[Mcgral18]

Eboli, on 16 September 2014 - 09:41 PM, said:

All good to read the above comments.
Although maybe not relevant now the one thing I have some concerns over is how IS vs Clans going to go once Clan Wave 2 hits?

The next Clan wave are going to have much faster moving lights and mediums which at the moment IS have distinctive speed/tactical advantages, especially in the light range. Put a good light pilot in a fast moving Clan light mech though and the balance on the battlefield may change to Clans advantage.

I haven't really looked at the potential hardpoints of the new Clan light and medium mechs (apart from knowing they are going to be much faster) but this is a factor not to be taken lightly.

Time will tell of course but this is the area I am particularly concerned/curious about.

Cheers!
Eboli

MoonfireSpam, on 16 September 2014 - 09:55 PM, said:

Just splooshed thinking about anything approximating an Ember, Spider or Jenner but with clan weapons.

6.5 tons of pod space+hardwired AP on the Koshi, along with very limited hardpoints. It might have ECM, but the ECM arm has no weapons, there are no torso mounted weapons period, and the other arm is 2M+1E or 2E.

Fenris is better off, with 9 tons of pod space maxed armour, though it's also hardpoint limited. Koshi(25 tons) is slower than the Fenris at 45 tons.

Edited by Mcgral18, 17 September 2014 - 10:18 AM.

[Murphy7]

Lefty Lucy, on 17 September 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

I wasn't really trying to "say" anything with it. I was just showing off my own good performance more than anything. A single screen shot never "says" anything.

Sometimes big numbers for one or two people come about because the group as a whole isn't high functioning, when you have better help, there isn't always as much damage to be be had when more people are pulling their weight.

And, that screenshot is awesomely impressive with the Shadowhawk 2D2. Well played.