229 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

MasterBLB, on 16 September 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:

Abandoning rearming and repairing costs was one of the best design decisions they ever made.

I just cannot agree with this. Part of playing a thinking mans game is you know making HARD choices. Can I afford that XL? Is Endo a good choice right now? Do I risk another ton of ammo or just get another Med Laser? Thinking man's choices. As it is there is minimal thinking. MW:O has sunk from a thinking mans game to a Cro Magnon's game.

[Fut]

aniviron, on 16 September 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:

The idea of R&R is great. But you'd be hard-pressed to come up with an implementation of it that doesn't disproportionally hurt new and poor players.

I've always thought that an R&R system similar to War Thunder would be perfect for MWO.

Quote

it’s incredibly unusual to come through a battle unscathed, so you’ll need to repair your aircraft. Each aircraft gets 10 free repairs, so you don’t have to worry about repairs right away, after that it will cost [C-Bills] to fix up all the damage.

By default aircraft are automatically repaired after a battle, but to save a bit of money you can un-check the box in the bottom right of the screen, just under the “To Battle” button, with a spanner icon, “Automatic repair of all airplanes after battle”:


If you don’t automatically repair then your aircraft will gradually be repaired for free over time. The speed of repair depends on the aircraft in question, and the crew repair skills; the crew’s “Repair Rank” skill must be equal or higher than the rank of the aircraft for the “Repair Speed” skill to apply, then the higher the repair speed, the faster the repairs.

You can see how many free repairs (if any) are remaining, time to repair for free, and average repair cost in the stat card of a plane when you hover the mouse over it. Low rank planes repair quickly, and don’t cost much if you want to instantly get back into the fight, both cost and time increase quite sharply in the high ranks.

A Beginner’s Guide to War Thunder – Crew Skills and Repairing

One thing I would alter from WT's R&R would be to give free repairs to people throughout the entire length of their Cadet Bonus phase. This way people wouldn't have to worry about repairs while learning the ropes, and it wouldn't take any longer for them to save up for their first Mech purchase. Or make it so Trial Mechs never have repair fees...

Edited by Fut, 17 September 2014 - 03:34 AM.

[Quxudica]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

I just cannot agree with this. Part of playing a thinking mans game is you know making HARD choices. Can I afford that XL? Is Endo a good choice right now? Do I risk another ton of ammo or just get another Med Laser? Thinking man's choices. As it is there is minimal thinking. MW:O has sunk from a thinking mans game to a Cro Magnon's game.

Again this idea of making players make "hard choices" was shown to be a complete failure when this was tried before. The idea and the reality are starkly different with a system like this and the reality is that nothing of significant benefit was added to the game by the presence of RnR, and certainly nothing to offset all the negative impacts it had.

[Pjwned]

What purpose does repair & rearm serve other than adding an annoying, soulless grind? It doesn't add anything worthwhile to the game because c-bills function and are acquired so much differently from tabletop that it makes little sense, the way the game operates it just serves as a tax on having fun and encourages flagrant paying2win with premium time and other mech boosts.

It isn't needed or wanted.

[Joseph Mallan]

Cause players don't want a challenge, they want pokemon games. I personally liked R&R, it made it feel like I was maintaining a war machine in the game. We are Playing as Mercs. Mercs don't get free rides. They have to buy their equipment. Standing armies have all the gear provided free. once all requisition forms are filled out and submitted in triplicate, and still can get lost in transit. Which BattleTech had tables to simulate.

WAR is not cheap. R&R was a good way to bring it home. I love stomping the yard as much as the next player, but without a price to be paid it is much less immersive.

R&R added the thinking to this shooting game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Pjwned, on 17 September 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

What purpose does repair & rearm serve other than adding an annoying, soulless grind? It doesn't add anything worthwhile to the game because c-bills function and are acquired so much differently from tabletop that it makes little sense, the way the game operates it just serves as a tax on having fun and encourages flagrant paying2win with premium time and other mech boosts.

It isn't needed or wanted.

In TT the majority of MW:O players would not have 10+ Chassis. Would be paid between 700-1200 C-bills a month not 40-120K a mission

And if the GM was worth his salt, would have your command track all the supplies to see if you Could 100% repair your equipment.

[IsaAurinkoinen]

I like idea to bring R&R to CW enviroment. Not so much a fan for bringing it back to PUG-queue.

[Daneiel]

IsaAurinkoinen, on 17 September 2014 - 03:48 AM, said:

I like idea to bring R&R to CW enviroment. Not so much a fan for bringing it back to PUG-queue.

You can not have the one without the other !!!!! As Joseph Mallan said - THE WAR IS MONEY - the choice is your - to become broke or to play safe and make small but stable income - with other word to abuse the game or to play mechwarrior.

P.S. In my opinion R&R and change of the heat scale ( back to TT values ) need to come first and after that we can start talking about weapon balance .

Edited by Daneiel, 17 September 2014 - 06:45 AM.

[Mercules]

R&R taught people who thought they were skilled at the game how bad they actually were. They might be good at getting kills with the most tweaked out mech you can imagine filled to the gills with expensive ammo... but they couldn't figure out how to do damage to the other guy without taking that much in return.


Right now the idea is, "There is one mech left... so what if I lose that whole torso and arm... I'll get the kill." With R&R you would sometimes see a heavily wounded team a bit more hesitant in engaging a mostly fresh last man standing mech because while they will kill him... at what cost to themselves?


Repair and Rearm is abbreviated the same as Risk and Reward. That is really what is missing from MWO... there is no risk and hardly any reward. What you are typically rewarded for has nothing to do with good tactics from a combat perspective.

[Mechteric]

Sorry but repair and rearm were a CBill money sink, and just doesn't belong in pub play. I could maybe see a use for something like it in CW though, but only if we also get more from salvage in CW to counteract when you win and don't lose your mech.

[Lupin]

Another part of R&R is that you may may not be able to maintain or play your big mechs if you do not have the Cbills.

This was one othe reasons to have a founder mech or champion mech so you can build up funds to use bigger Mechs/weapons.

But Risk and Reward maybe should be an option for players to use.

It's a REASON to play.

[Darian DelFord]

Kaeb Odellas, on 16 September 2014 - 09:56 PM, said:

I don't see how that solves anything. They increased ammo per ton (not doubled, exactly) for a lot of weapons because they doubled armor and internals.

Part of the problem with this game especially on the IS side is PP FLD. Increased ammo makes this even more of a problem. Set the ammo values back to their original states and you will see an increase in the TTK of most mechs. Then those High Damage Low Heat Builds will have to be vary vary cautious about their firing and bring back up weapons.

If R&R is ever implemented again, then it would not impact those builds as much as it did.

[Bilbo]

I didn't have a problem with it the first time around. I doubt we will see it back though.

[Joseph Mallan]

IsaAurinkoinen, on 17 September 2014 - 03:48 AM, said:

I like idea to bring R&R to CW enviroment. Not so much a fan for bringing it back to PUG-queue.

Oh definitely not for the PUG que. Sorry if some thought I was pitching that.

[Rebas Kradd]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

A thinking mans game is you know making HARD choices.

A thinking man's game may or may not be financially viable. Like it or not, this game needs to have a level of accessibility. In lore, the hard choice a lot of mechwarriors make is simply to retreat to save their mechs. That's boring.

That's why I'd love to see R&R come back, but as part of CW, or perhaps single-player mode. Seems like a good way to preserve the "instant action" type of play we have now, let new players in, but still allow the rest of us to find our way back into a true consequential mode.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 17 September 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[Bilbo]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 September 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Oh definitely not for the PUG que. Sorry if some thought I was pitching that.

They can't really be separated. Solo players will be fighting in CW, after all. I have too many mechs that I have no issue dropping in. Even if the system were highly punitive, I wouldn't be bothered by it in either queue regardless. Everyone doesn't have that luxury though, so I can't see it coming back. The whine on the forums was epic when it was in.

[Lily from animove]

Would be something for units and clanwars, but in the random normal game, would just penalise new players too much who do not have many mechs and to buy and upgrade a laod of stuff

Edited by Lily from animove, 17 September 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[Mercules]

Rebas Kradd, on 17 September 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

A thinking man's game may or may not be financially viable. Like it or not, this game needs to have a level of accessibility.

This is a myth I see brought out a lot. Not every game has to be accessible to all players. There are more than enough middle aged nostalgic Mechwarrior/Battletech fans with disposable income willing to put money into the game. I know of 4 of them personally that have left because of "making the game more accessible" instead of making a good Mechwarrior game and/or combat sim.

[Bigbacon]

please no..........

[Hardin4188]

I played in the closed and open beta, but haven't played much since the release and I liked the idea of repair and rearm. But after reading this thread it's shocking how negative it's implementation was compared to say world of tanks. If you tried going into combat without repairing your tank in wot you would be in a world of hurt.

The key idea behind repair and rearm in wot is so everyone wont be playing the high tier tanks all the time. I don't know why it didn't work like this in mwo oh well.